I think you just can't accept that that could be true.
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CTE/ PRO ONE with Stan Shuffett
- Thread starter JoeyA
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I think you just can't accept that that could be true.
Tell Ron (Vitello, of course) I said a hearty hello, and he's got a game of "50 or no count" in straights for dinner, if he's interested. Great, fun guy!
-Sean
You play Ron in banks and he has a backer. lol
We have the makings of a swivel, pivot, ghost-ball extravaganza, of course with alot of pro-one thrown in. Hell, I might even take that immodium before I get on the bus.
If you call someone stupid, just come out and do it, Archie didn't beat around the bush.
The alarm clock never got a chance to go off at 6:00 am on Wednesday morning as I was already clock watching by then. I had planned for a long day with one of the best pool instructors in the country, if not the best and I was jazzed to say the least.
Stan Shuffett had invited me to get a look at his video and learn CTE/PRO ONE and I wasn't about to sleep in late.
I had prepared to make a very long day of it and did. Stan and I met at a Bed & Breakfast a couple of hours from New Orleans and the B&B had a convenient 9 foot Gold Crown IV which the proprietor kept in mint condition, along with a fine set of Centennials.
I arrived a few minutes after 8:00 am and had a 45 minute conversation over coffee, with Stan and I talking about what I hoped to learn. We even talked about some pool things that weren't even CTE/Pro One related. As usual, Stan was patient with my probing questions. I had brief encounters with Stan over the years and he has always been open and honest with me. He didn't surprise me this time either.
We talked a little about the naysayers on AZB and he good naturedly sidestepped any discussion about them which is par for Stan. Stan has a way about him that allows him to stay on track and my little aside wasn't going to deter him from his task.
Stan waited until I started gettting antsy and we soon moved from the antique filled B & B into the separated house with the roomy pool room and the GC IV.
Stan had planned to give me the full CTE/Pro One Course and he did.
He actually gave me the full one on one course without me even looking at the video. A part of me wished that I had watched the video first but that was not to be, although if I had asked, I'm sure Stan would have met my wishes.
If any of you are looking for the "secrets" of CTE/Pro One, you can go ahead and leave this thread right now. Stan has worked for years trying to uncover the "secrets" of CTE/Pro One. I call them "secrets" because I haven't heard anyone discuss the details that Stan began to share with me. Sure, there were some similarities that I had heard from many discussions that I had with Hal Houle, the originator of CTE. Hal always seemed to enjoy the magic and mystery of CTE and I think he liked to have people who took an interest in it to come back and visit with him, in person or by phone. Myself, I always viewed Hal as a very intelligent person with a great sense of humor and I regaled with Hal's many varied and interesting stories. He had lived a long and productive life and had known champions like Ralph Greenleaf. For a period of time, a lot more than a few months, Hal had taken Ralph into his home and looked after Ralph. Ralph had many vices and it was hard to deal with those problems but Hal did for a rather lengthy time.
A friend of mine had many conversations with Hal and Hal had told him that he and Sailor Barge had many conversations about what would become known as CTE. I had spoken to Sonnie, Hal's wife previously and she confirmed that Hal had worked diligently for years on CTE although she didn't claim to know anything about it.
Stan and Landon Shuffett took an interest in Hal's CTE and they both met and studied with Hal. Subsequent phone calls continued to develop a hunger for more information about CTE and as Hal's health continued to decline, Stan was forced to do his own study on CTE.
Stan has worked for years on developing CTE/Pro One and that is one of the reasons why I will not divulge what I have learned from Stan. He deserves to be rewarded for his hatd work and CTE/Pro One video.
To say that CTE/Pro One is a unique aiming system would be a terrible understatement.
I can say without hesitation that CTE/Pro One is a "FINITE AND PRECISE AIMING SYSTEM". I spend an entire day working hard to understand the principles and nuances of the aiming system. I spent many hours at the table executing shots and NEVER ONCE LOOKED AT A CONTACT POINT. I made LOTS of SHOTS, that Stan had set up as part of his course for me to try. The VAST MAJORITY OF SHOTS were EASY to make using CTE/Pro One.
I failed to make some shots using CTE/Pro One and Stan was right there with me, encouraging me to continue and not only explaining why I may have missed the shot but executing the same shot over and over, explaining precisely what he was doing to make the shot. When I went back over the missed shot, I made it consistently after I corrected my error. It was a simply error each time and I can see how some people are inconsistent with CTE/Pro One but I saw Stan make shot after shot. Once, after I had my feet wet with CTE/Pro One, he declared that we would now shoot random shots not only, not looking at the pockets except to see where the pockets were located in regards to the object ball but once we had pivoted, we would no longer look at the object ball. Stan made many shots one after the other without missing, finally he started missing one particular shot and he missed it a couple of times until he got it right. I didn't do as well but I did make many shots without looking at the object ball once I had done the CTE/Pro One aiming. I wasn't very happy with missing those balls but Stan wasn't the least disappointed with my misses. He was actually glad to see that I was able to make some balls without even looking at the object ball, after doing the pivot.
It is now easy to see how some people who are using CTE/Pro One for the first time, find a kind of euphoria and are so excited about it.
It is also easy to see how someone's game could improve dramatically by using CTE/Pro One, especially someone who hadn't hit a million balls like myself. But I was interested in how I would fare with this aiming system and to say that I was not disappointed is also an understatement.
After several hours, I candidly told Stan that I had come with an open mind to learn CTE/Pro One but a part of me told me that I would find CTE to be not all that some had said it was cooked up to be.
Now some of you give me a litte ribbing because I enjoy highlighting the benefits of any pool product I try and that's just me. I try to see the positive side of anything that I try and I try a lot of things. :smile:
When using CTE/Pro One, there are a few shots that require "adjustments" but they are all measurable, consistent adjustments and are not subconscious adjustments.
NO PART OF CTE/PRO ONE is subject to subconscious adjustments.
That being said CTE/Pro One does inhibit you from taking into consideration any factors such as throw, squirt, swerve, etc.
While CTE/Pro One is unlike any aiming system out there, it will not make you a great pool player by itself.
Pro One is and advanced phase of CTE and after you master the CTE precise aiming system, you can move on to the easy flowing Pro One. You are still using the CTE but the Pro One is the next step and while I didn't use it as much as I wanted to during long school session I was able to utilize it tonight when I went to the pool room. During the day, I was using CTE to make some bank shots and some of the bank shots were incredible. Yeah, I will use the word "incredible" because that's what it is.
I know that if any of the naysayers take a CTE/Pro One lesson from Stan Shuffett and come with an open mind and work hard to learn it, they will and what they learn will be unique and PRECISE. I did not know how precise the system was until I missed a shot every now and then and when I corrected my aiming, the balls fell every time.
Tonight, I practiced ten ball with a former GREAT player in the New Orleans area. Normally I would never expect to come out ahead against this particular player but I managed to come out ten games ahead. He hasn't been playing much pool and that's about all I do these days so I had an edge on him in that regard but I would be remiss if I didn't also share that I used Pro One when I played him and I can tell you with certainty that the things I learned from Stan about CTE/Pro One helped me to play a MUCH better game of ten ball tonight.
I feel rather badly for some of you because I am saying some rather extraordinary things about CTE/Pro One but everything that I have said is truthful and I actually believe that even better things are yet to come.
The final CTE/Pro One video should be out before Christmas. I watched Stan's first draft of the video and it details everything that Stan shared in the one on one lesson but if I had not taken the lesson I can candidly tell you that I would have had some "issues" with the video by itself.
Like some people have mentioned before, it is an aiming system that is best demonstrated and a good instructor schooled in the nuances of the system can shorten the learning curve. That being said, it is still possible to get the benefits just from the video but you will have to stay with it and practice what he shares in the video.
The other problem with CTE/Pro One is that there is a whole new language that players have to become familiar with and the new words are alien to most pool players at least as far as aiming is concerned. I've been around these words now for several years so I was kind of familiar with almost everything Stan shared but I can see how some people might go down the wrong path without some supervision or additional instruction.
I feel confident that CTE/Pro One is a PRECISE AIMING SYSTEM and even those who believe it is silly, will have an awakening if they genuinely try to learn it.
I not only believe that below average players will see a jump in their game in a relatively short period of time but advanced players will also find a new way to aim and an EFFECTIVE ball pocketing system tjat will not limit you in any other areas.
Stan has earned the right to make a profit from his video and I hope that those who learn the system will feel the same way and avoid sharing the "secrets" of CTE/Pro One.
I strongly urge anyone who has an open mind to learn something new and something EFFECTIVE, will try CTE/Pro One because it genuinely works. Do a few shots require adjustments? Yes, and Stan shows you the adjustments to handle those shots as well.
It was one of the best days of learning pool that I have ever had.
Stan, you are to be congratulated for a fantastic product. I hope you make a million.
I am planning to call Hal to offer a belated apology for not answering the call to CTE sooner.
Those who haven't had the lesson and who believe that CTE/Pro One is an unworthy aiming system don't realize what they are missing. I predict that CTE/Pro One will be highly successful, not just for Stan but for the players themselves. This aiming system will improve anyone's game.
I don't have it down pat yet but plan to continue using it in the coming weeks. If I revert back to contact point to contact point aiming I will let you know. I plan to use CTE/Pro One until I am positive that it helps me play better OVERALL or if it doesn't, I will go back to the other aiming methods that I have used in the past, all of which have served me well.
Sorry that I did not give you the "secrets" of CTE/Pro One but I think all of you are going to be surprised at the PRECISION in CTE/Pro One.
Best Regards,
JoeyA
Stan Shuffett had invited me to get a look at his video and learn CTE/PRO ONE and I wasn't about to sleep in late.
I had prepared to make a very long day of it and did. Stan and I met at a Bed & Breakfast a couple of hours from New Orleans and the B&B had a convenient 9 foot Gold Crown IV which the proprietor kept in mint condition, along with a fine set of Centennials.
I arrived a few minutes after 8:00 am and had a 45 minute conversation over coffee, with Stan and I talking about what I hoped to learn. We even talked about some pool things that weren't even CTE/Pro One related. As usual, Stan was patient with my probing questions. I had brief encounters with Stan over the years and he has always been open and honest with me. He didn't surprise me this time either.
We talked a little about the naysayers on AZB and he good naturedly sidestepped any discussion about them which is par for Stan. Stan has a way about him that allows him to stay on track and my little aside wasn't going to deter him from his task.
Stan waited until I started gettting antsy and we soon moved from the antique filled B & B into the separated house with the roomy pool room and the GC IV.
Stan had planned to give me the full CTE/Pro One Course and he did.
He actually gave me the full one on one course without me even looking at the video. A part of me wished that I had watched the video first but that was not to be, although if I had asked, I'm sure Stan would have met my wishes.
If any of you are looking for the "secrets" of CTE/Pro One, you can go ahead and leave this thread right now. Stan has worked for years trying to uncover the "secrets" of CTE/Pro One. I call them "secrets" because I haven't heard anyone discuss the details that Stan began to share with me. Sure, there were some similarities that I had heard from many discussions that I had with Hal Houle, the originator of CTE. Hal always seemed to enjoy the magic and mystery of CTE and I think he liked to have people who took an interest in it to come back and visit with him, in person or by phone. Myself, I always viewed Hal as a very intelligent person with a great sense of humor and I regaled with Hal's many varied and interesting stories. He had lived a long and productive life and had known champions like Ralph Greenleaf. For a period of time, a lot more than a few months, Hal had taken Ralph into his home and looked after Ralph. Ralph had many vices and it was hard to deal with those problems but Hal did for a rather lengthy time.
A friend of mine had many conversations with Hal and Hal had told him that he and Sailor Barge had many conversations about what would become known as CTE. I had spoken to Sonnie, Hal's wife previously and she confirmed that Hal had worked diligently for years on CTE although she didn't claim to know anything about it.
Stan and Landon Shuffett took an interest in Hal's CTE and they both met and studied with Hal. Subsequent phone calls continued to develop a hunger for more information about CTE and as Hal's health continued to decline, Stan was forced to do his own study on CTE.
Stan has worked for years on developing CTE/Pro One and that is one of the reasons why I will not divulge what I have learned from Stan. He deserves to be rewarded for his hatd work and CTE/Pro One video.
To say that CTE/Pro One is a unique aiming system would be a terrible understatement.
I can say without hesitation that CTE/Pro One is a "FINITE AND PRECISE AIMING SYSTEM". I spend an entire day working hard to understand the principles and nuances of the aiming system. I spent many hours at the table executing shots and NEVER ONCE LOOKED AT A CONTACT POINT. I made LOTS of SHOTS, that Stan had set up as part of his course for me to try. The VAST MAJORITY OF SHOTS were EASY to make using CTE/Pro One.
I failed to make some shots using CTE/Pro One and Stan was right there with me, encouraging me to continue and not only explaining why I may have missed the shot but executing the same shot over and over, explaining precisely what he was doing to make the shot. When I went back over the missed shot, I made it consistently after I corrected my error. It was a simply error each time and I can see how some people are inconsistent with CTE/Pro One but I saw Stan make shot after shot. Once, after I had my feet wet with CTE/Pro One, he declared that we would now shoot random shots not only, not looking at the pockets except to see where the pockets were located in regards to the object ball but once we had pivoted, we would no longer look at the object ball. Stan made many shots one after the other without missing, finally he started missing one particular shot and he missed it a couple of times until he got it right. I didn't do as well but I did make many shots without looking at the object ball once I had done the CTE/Pro One aiming. I wasn't very happy with missing those balls but Stan wasn't the least disappointed with my misses. He was actually glad to see that I was able to make some balls without even looking at the object ball, after doing the pivot.
It is now easy to see how some people who are using CTE/Pro One for the first time, find a kind of euphoria and are so excited about it.
It is also easy to see how someone's game could improve dramatically by using CTE/Pro One, especially someone who hadn't hit a million balls like myself. But I was interested in how I would fare with this aiming system and to say that I was not disappointed is also an understatement.
After several hours, I candidly told Stan that I had come with an open mind to learn CTE/Pro One but a part of me told me that I would find CTE to be not all that some had said it was cooked up to be.
Now some of you give me a litte ribbing because I enjoy highlighting the benefits of any pool product I try and that's just me. I try to see the positive side of anything that I try and I try a lot of things. :smile:
When using CTE/Pro One, there are a few shots that require "adjustments" but they are all measurable, consistent adjustments and are not subconscious adjustments.
NO PART OF CTE/PRO ONE is subject to subconscious adjustments.
That being said CTE/Pro One does inhibit you from taking into consideration any factors such as throw, squirt, swerve, etc.
While CTE/Pro One is unlike any aiming system out there, it will not make you a great pool player by itself.
Pro One is and advanced phase of CTE and after you master the CTE precise aiming system, you can move on to the easy flowing Pro One. You are still using the CTE but the Pro One is the next step and while I didn't use it as much as I wanted to during long school session I was able to utilize it tonight when I went to the pool room. During the day, I was using CTE to make some bank shots and some of the bank shots were incredible. Yeah, I will use the word "incredible" because that's what it is.
I know that if any of the naysayers take a CTE/Pro One lesson from Stan Shuffett and come with an open mind and work hard to learn it, they will and what they learn will be unique and PRECISE. I did not know how precise the system was until I missed a shot every now and then and when I corrected my aiming, the balls fell every time.
Tonight, I practiced ten ball with a former GREAT player in the New Orleans area. Normally I would never expect to come out ahead against this particular player but I managed to come out ten games ahead. He hasn't been playing much pool and that's about all I do these days so I had an edge on him in that regard but I would be remiss if I didn't also share that I used Pro One when I played him and I can tell you with certainty that the things I learned from Stan about CTE/Pro One helped me to play a MUCH better game of ten ball tonight.
I feel rather badly for some of you because I am saying some rather extraordinary things about CTE/Pro One but everything that I have said is truthful and I actually believe that even better things are yet to come.
The final CTE/Pro One video should be out before Christmas. I watched Stan's first draft of the video and it details everything that Stan shared in the one on one lesson but if I had not taken the lesson I can candidly tell you that I would have had some "issues" with the video by itself.
Like some people have mentioned before, it is an aiming system that is best demonstrated and a good instructor schooled in the nuances of the system can shorten the learning curve. That being said, it is still possible to get the benefits just from the video but you will have to stay with it and practice what he shares in the video.
The other problem with CTE/Pro One is that there is a whole new language that players have to become familiar with and the new words are alien to most pool players at least as far as aiming is concerned. I've been around these words now for several years so I was kind of familiar with almost everything Stan shared but I can see how some people might go down the wrong path without some supervision or additional instruction.
I feel confident that CTE/Pro One is a PRECISE AIMING SYSTEM and even those who believe it is silly, will have an awakening if they genuinely try to learn it.
I not only believe that below average players will see a jump in their game in a relatively short period of time but advanced players will also find a new way to aim and an EFFECTIVE ball pocketing system tjat will not limit you in any other areas.
Stan has earned the right to make a profit from his video and I hope that those who learn the system will feel the same way and avoid sharing the "secrets" of CTE/Pro One.
I strongly urge anyone who has an open mind to learn something new and something EFFECTIVE, will try CTE/Pro One because it genuinely works. Do a few shots require adjustments? Yes, and Stan shows you the adjustments to handle those shots as well.
It was one of the best days of learning pool that I have ever had.
Stan, you are to be congratulated for a fantastic product. I hope you make a million.
I am planning to call Hal to offer a belated apology for not answering the call to CTE sooner.
Those who haven't had the lesson and who believe that CTE/Pro One is an unworthy aiming system don't realize what they are missing. I predict that CTE/Pro One will be highly successful, not just for Stan but for the players themselves. This aiming system will improve anyone's game.
I don't have it down pat yet but plan to continue using it in the coming weeks. If I revert back to contact point to contact point aiming I will let you know. I plan to use CTE/Pro One until I am positive that it helps me play better OVERALL or if it doesn't, I will go back to the other aiming methods that I have used in the past, all of which have served me well.
Sorry that I did not give you the "secrets" of CTE/Pro One but I think all of you are going to be surprised at the PRECISION in CTE/Pro One.
Best Regards,
JoeyA
Wow, this has gone to hell in a handbasket over the weekend.
I'm going to flip sides for a second. The "naysayers" are merely asking for a proof of the system. Using the light switch analogy is a little weak - even though my son or wife do not know how the switch works, I do, and the engineer who designed it can tell you EXACTLY how it works.
Instead of answering THAT CTE works, they would like to know the WHY. Take, for example, ghost ball. Ghost ball roughly maps out a contact point on a ball, and you need to deliver the cueball across that spot to pocket the ball. It's easy to visualize, in concept.
CTE gets fuzzy for some, because it doesn't take a contact point into consideration. It involves an alignment to the edge of the ball, and a pivot. I, myself, do not understand the single pivot, as the system that I was taught made sense, and took angles into consideration. I need to judge my shot in relation to the pocket. I "understand" there's no need to know where the pocket is with other systems, but I don't understand it or see it.
All Lou, Pat, and the other CTE opponents are saying is "explain, please", and people are calling them names in response. Why? Because they need a little more empirical data than the average picnic basket to accept the claims of the system? I have no problem with that.
Hopefully, Stan has a good explanation for them. If not, it will continue to not be their cup of tea.
I've never pulled out pencil and paper to figure out the system, and I couldn't explain any other system but mine, as I have absolutely no clue how one pivots from left to right, or right to left ONLY and still makes all the shots. That being said, am I an opponent? No, however, if shown that system by another player, I'd be thinking in my head "wow, that's WHACKED, but the guy sure can play".
I'm going to ask the CTE proponents a question, and please answer respectfully, as I have taken my stripes for defending you. Do you use the CTE system on EVERY shot you shoot, or do you ever rely on the mental supercomputer between your ears to make a few of them for you? Not being smart, and not disproving your system - just asking.
I'm going to flip sides for a second. The "naysayers" are merely asking for a proof of the system. Using the light switch analogy is a little weak - even though my son or wife do not know how the switch works, I do, and the engineer who designed it can tell you EXACTLY how it works.
Instead of answering THAT CTE works, they would like to know the WHY. Take, for example, ghost ball. Ghost ball roughly maps out a contact point on a ball, and you need to deliver the cueball across that spot to pocket the ball. It's easy to visualize, in concept.
CTE gets fuzzy for some, because it doesn't take a contact point into consideration. It involves an alignment to the edge of the ball, and a pivot. I, myself, do not understand the single pivot, as the system that I was taught made sense, and took angles into consideration. I need to judge my shot in relation to the pocket. I "understand" there's no need to know where the pocket is with other systems, but I don't understand it or see it.
All Lou, Pat, and the other CTE opponents are saying is "explain, please", and people are calling them names in response. Why? Because they need a little more empirical data than the average picnic basket to accept the claims of the system? I have no problem with that.
Hopefully, Stan has a good explanation for them. If not, it will continue to not be their cup of tea.
I've never pulled out pencil and paper to figure out the system, and I couldn't explain any other system but mine, as I have absolutely no clue how one pivots from left to right, or right to left ONLY and still makes all the shots. That being said, am I an opponent? No, however, if shown that system by another player, I'd be thinking in my head "wow, that's WHACKED, but the guy sure can play".
I'm going to ask the CTE proponents a question, and please answer respectfully, as I have taken my stripes for defending you. Do you use the CTE system on EVERY shot you shoot, or do you ever rely on the mental supercomputer between your ears to make a few of them for you? Not being smart, and not disproving your system - just asking.
Shawn,
People have not started calling people names out of the blue. Pat and Lou have been at this for more than a decade calling people names who couldn't give them the WHY to their satisfaction.
Of course I don't use CTE on every shot but almost every shot.
The analogy with the light switch works because the people who make lights work go out and learn everything they need to know to make light work, then they create light bulbs and switches and sell them to people who don't need to know HOW light works but just need light.
I understand that they want a why and how but instead of going out and getting the systems they denigrate they prefer to sit back and demand spoon-fed instruction.
Dave Segal has tried to give them a why, so have all the other instructors. Although they (the naysayers) don't want to learn the system they still don't accept the words of people who use them.
Personal testimonial by people successfully using CTE are met with derision and pooh-poohed away, videos of people using CTE are discounted to the point where the people who made the videos are made out to be liars or self-delusional or both.
Imagine for a moment if you taught someone the Ghost Ball system and then they turned around and taught someone else. What if the third person just didn't get it and demanded to have a physics explanation of how it works? Would that make the GB system invalid? No, all it would mean is that the second person was incapable of providing the level of detail demanded by the third. However the second person could show another person GB and that person might lock into it right away.
What if the second person said to the third, "hey look I really can't show any better than what I am doing but my buddy Shawn really knows this WAY better and he has the answers you want, go see him." and the third person said, "no way, if YOU can't tell me what I want to know then your systems sucks and so do you." ? That is how WE who use CTE see the situation.
Lou was in Valley Forge last year. So was Dave Segal. If LOU had REALLY wanted to get the information then he could made time to hook up with Dave for 30 minutes or an hour.
Then at least Lou would have had the information Dave has and been able to dissect it from a point of knowledge rather than ignorance.
So all I can say is that Lou and Pat and company don't really want to know more than they know. I think that they have made up their minds as to the only way they think it can work, which is subconscious adjustment, and that's that.
They are not merely saying explain please, they are saying explain within our paradigm or you are a delusional idiot. Well, getting called that a few times tends to elicit a similar response.
I would disagree with the first paragraph. Pat has come out and said he hasn't seen anything YET that would change his opinion. I think Lou is in the same boat. In fact, I'm kind of in that boat. I think that Stan has a good aiming tool that he's showing on video. However, if it doesn't go into the "why" portion of how it works, I would remain skeptical as well.
GMT kept trying to state my opinion for me, and it's why I had some fun with him. However, being a logical guy, don't you have any desire inside to know HOW the pivot puts you onto the right contact point? I'm not saying you're right or wrong in using it, but hasn't one part of your brain made you cross eyed at least once when thinking "why the hell does this work?????"
I wasn't being funny. The words jackal, cancer, haters, naysayer all came from your recent posts here.
You are engaging in fear mongering, blaming a group who disagree with you for your woes and accusing them of using their smarmy skills of debating and humor to the detriment of the group. Figuratively speaking you are one step removed from having some here sew on bright yellow emblems on their lapels and putting them all on trains in the middle of the night.
Lately, there has been some progress through this discussion in reaching a middle ground, with some on the CTE side finally seeing that all some on the "other side" are just trying to get enough information to figure out how the system works. And if you say it works for you and don't need to know the inner workings: be happy!. No one has an issue with that.
So here we are, patiently sittin' on the Group W bench, whistling a tune and playing with the pencils and forms, and waiting for Stan's DVD to come around. Meanwhile, you're running around trying to round up a lynch mob.
As Mike put it: that's divisive.
Lou Figueroa
I also saw Dave in Vegas, in the instruction room. And if he had wanted to, the table and balls and sticks were right there and he could have said, "Hey, Lou. Come on over and let me show you how this CTE thing works." But he didn't and I didn't want to put him on the spot in front of everyone in the room.
Lou Figueroa
Of course it's crossed my mind as to why it works. That's been the trouble for most of us who use CTE - we make a ton of balls and can't explain why as neatly as GB packages it.
But my point is that Pat and Lou and the rest WILL NOT go and get the straight info from the people who have it and then operate from the point of having the "best" (for lack of a better term) info on the system/method available.
I'd love to see it explained in full detail with the math behind it. But asking me for the math is nonsense.
My question back to Dave Alciatore is why doesn't he hook up with Dave Segal and get ALL the parts of the system with EVERYTHING Dave has figured out about how to use it. Then take that back to the lab and figure it out? Figure out what part is math, what part is intutition? Can it be taught to a rank beginner who has NOT had 10 years of GB aiming experience to use as a baseline?
These are all questions that someone like Dr. Dave can answer once he has the best information out there to work off of.
That's my only point. I'd love to see some scientific proof to go along with what I know works.
They are using overhead cameras and vision-system software.
Yes. The vision system locates the OB and pocket and finds the line from the center of the OB to the center of the pocket. Then, the software calculates the center of the necessary ghost-ball position (optionally taking throw into consideration), simple by backing up a ball diameter from the OB center along the OB-pocket line (which can be adjusted for throw). The GB center defines a precise aiming target and aiming line from the center of the CB. The robot then aligns the cue along this line behind the CB and fires away. Because a robot's stroke is very consistent, the ball should go in the hole (as long as there isn't significant cling, and as long as the vision system and robot are well calibrated).
A robot could be programmed to use CTE, but the software would be much more complicated and involve lots of equations involving CB-OB distance, cut angle, bridge length, and effective pivot point. Some humans can learn to judge all of this, but a robot would need precise instructions.
It is much easier for a robot (and many humans) to "learn" GB. Less visualization and "calculation" are required compared to CTE.
Regards,
Dave
Lots of pages of posts here, and honestly I didn't read them all, so, if someone mentioned this before, consider this a "here here".
I have nothing good or bad to say about CTE or any other aiming system because they all have merit. I think the way I do it is best, but that's me. Anyone interested can look it up, but that's not what is on my mind.
The most, I say MOST important thing to remember is that it is FAR LESS about your aiming system. It is ALL ABOUT YOUR DELIVERY OF THE CUE BALL TO THE OBJECT BALL.
It's not about aim, it's about delivery. Consistent, repeatable, reliable, confident, DELIVERY.
To put that second to any aiming system it TOTALLY WORTHLESS and you will merely be chasing your tail.
Here is the biggest secret for beginners who think they need to figure out where to hit the object ball. Throw a dozen balls on the table and shoot them in without using the Cue Ball. Just shoot them into the pocket. I'll bet you never miss even one. What's that mean? It means you already know the aiming spot.
Spend your time developing your delivery. Your consistent, repeatable, reliable, confident delivery because that's why we all miss.
I have nothing good or bad to say about CTE or any other aiming system because they all have merit. I think the way I do it is best, but that's me. Anyone interested can look it up, but that's not what is on my mind.
The most, I say MOST important thing to remember is that it is FAR LESS about your aiming system. It is ALL ABOUT YOUR DELIVERY OF THE CUE BALL TO THE OBJECT BALL.
It's not about aim, it's about delivery. Consistent, repeatable, reliable, confident, DELIVERY.
To put that second to any aiming system it TOTALLY WORTHLESS and you will merely be chasing your tail.
Here is the biggest secret for beginners who think they need to figure out where to hit the object ball. Throw a dozen balls on the table and shoot them in without using the Cue Ball. Just shoot them into the pocket. I'll bet you never miss even one. What's that mean? It means you already know the aiming spot.
Spend your time developing your delivery. Your consistent, repeatable, reliable, confident delivery because that's why we all miss.
I was on the spot in front of everyone in the room the whole time, I thought. If I recall, you walked in the room, listened for a little while, heard enough, and split.
I'm warmed by your concern about not wanting to make me uncomfy in front of other people. For a minute, I thought you wanted to call Blair and setup a Pool, Poker & Pain match between us or something
I do look forward to meeting Spidey in person some day, but my academic commitments and schedule make it difficult for me to travel in non-summer months. However, I have spoken with Spidey on the phone several times, read his entire CTE blog very carefully, read his many hundreds of posts concerning CTE, watched and studied all of his online video demonstrations of CTE, and I have tried at the table absolutely everything he and others have suggested. Honestly, as with Mike Page, Bob Jewett, and Patrick Johnson, who have "spent time" with CTE proponents at an actual table, I doubt table time with Spidey would change my current understanding of CTE; although, I am always willing to learn more and help others better understand things.
I already have. All of the "Lab results" are here:
Maybe not all of these results will apply to Stan's Pro-One, but I won't know until the DVD is released.
Regards,
Dave
I have a hunch everyone's understanding of CTE will go up a few clicks when they watch Stan's video.
Don't you see yourself Lou? "Small child", that's not inflammatory is it? That's not divisive, is it?
You do it all of the time. That's about all your posts are good for these days. It's unfortunate, REALLY!
What you say is spot on! If CTE/Pro One gives me perfect alignment and aiming on EVERY single shot, I could still miss EVERY single shot if I don't have all of the things you mentioned.
It takes approximately 10,000 hours of repetitions to gain the muscle memory necessary to excel at virtually any sporting activity.
I guess you know each other then? So it would have been wrong to email each other beforehand and make a time to get together privately?
I don't think that the onus is on Dave to seek you out. I think that if you want to know how it works (you or Pat or anyone) then you should seek out the people who really know it and have them show you.
Of course if putting people on the spot is a concern then there were only 100 other tables at the venue available including two 9 foot ones in our booth.
You got my point well enough.
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