What Does Brunswick Do For Pool?

Lets examine what Pool does for Brunswick fella's. ?

I looked at their third quarter results and I see Marine Engine Segment on top. Then comes Boat Segment. Then comes Fitness Segment. Then comes the Bowling and Billirads Segment that rolled into one does amount to squat compared to the others !
Bowling and Billiards declined in their 3rd quarter !!!!!

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=97828&p=irol-newsArticle_Print&ID=1488429&highlight=

So the answer is, not much !
 
To answer the OP's question I think Brunswick has made and supplied quality Products to the pool world for many years !

Much better that Sears huh ! ?
 
oldzilla said:
Look, are you an expert on things that happened 90 yrs ago or so ? !

I think not.

You're blowing off air that isn't so hot ! But if you want to knock Brunswick be my guest. So far you do not sound too smart.
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I "do not sound too smart"? Where the hell did that come from?

You were the one that said you "read all about Brunswick" -- I made no such claim. The opening post asks, "What does Brunswick do for pool?" You said something along the lines "they did have it going back then".

Sorry if I disagreed with you at all -- guess I wasn't supposed to...

but I'm still all ears and looking forward to getting better educated about what Brunswick does for pool. If you're so smart, show me the numbers -- I'm man enough to admit if I'm wrong.

I only compared Brunswick to Jansco. Lets compare to Joss cues, or Viking or Diamond and look at what they do for pool as a percentage of their pool related sales, for example. This would be good stuff, and it would be nice to actually know instead of just wonder about it.

Regarding your "90 years ago" comment -- I didn't realize I brought up anything having to do with 90 years ago. I mentioned Mosconi and I compared to Jansco with regard to tournament sponsorship. Jansco was less than fifty years ago -- Maybe Mosconi was being sponsored 70 or even 80 years ago, but that's still a stretch to 90.
 
1pocket said:
I "do not sound too smart"? Where the hell did that come from?

You were the one that said you "read all about Brunswick" -- I made no such claim. The opening post asks, "What does Brunswick do for pool?" You said something along the lines "they did have it going back then".

Sorry if I disagreed with you at all -- guess I wasn't supposed to...

but I'm still all ears and looking forward to getting better educated about what Brunswick does for pool. If you're so smart, show me the numbers -- I'm man enough to admit if I'm wrong.

I only compared Brunswick to Jansco. Lets compare to Joss cues, or Viking or Diamond and look at what they do for pool as a percentage of their pool related sales, for example. This would be good stuff, and it would be nice to actually know instead of just wonder about it.

Regarding your "90 years ago" comment -- I didn't realize I brought up anything having to do with 90 years ago. I mentioned Mosconi and I compared to Jansco with regard to tournament sponsorship. Jansco was less than fifty years ago -- Maybe Mosconi was being sponsored 70 or even 80 years ago, but that's still a stretch to 90.
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Stick with photography !
 
1pocket said:
Sure they sponsored a small number of top players. That's not exactly giving back to the people that feed them in a significant way, it's just a pittance of advertising budget going to a very select few. And tournament sponsorship? very little, if you put it in perspective of the size of the company. Hell, I am pretty sure the Jansco Brothers, who were basically nobodies in the middle of nowhere, put up more money than the Brunswick giant corporation did year-to-year. The problem with Brunswick, and much of the early BCA industry, seems to be that they really did not like pool players -- they liked people and institutions that bought their tables. That's a big difference. They needed a few faces of billiard expertise for their advertising of course, so Mosconi and a select few benefited, but I am interested in hearing details of exactly how much they EVER gave to the players in general, via tournament added money or any kind of widespread endorsements (not just Mosconi).

I just would like to compare that amount of $$ with what other more player friendly pool industries of the past and present give. I think you might find Brunswick won't look so good...
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They were not in the pool business they were in the bowling business. In fact when pool was on the way down in the 70's they were converting the billiard rooms in the bowling alleys to banquet and meeting rooms. I know because I bought around 200 Gold crowns from Brunswick bowling alleys for around $200.00 on the average and it took me years to get rid of them for any kind of profit at all. Brunswick lanes all but kept pool alive and available for years. Anyone growing up in the 60's and 70's without a doubt got their introduction to the game in a Brunswick Bowling alley. I am not sure Brunswick owes anyone anything. Their debt to the game has been long paid.
 
DoubleD said:
Why would Brunswick 'give back' to pool?

Why should they care? They sell tables now, they make a profit on them.

I'll give you all a tip: No company 'gives' back to anything. They shouldn't, it would be a TERRIBLE business decision.

If Brunswick held a million dollar tour, you can bet it is because they believe that they can make $1.1million back.

Shoot, you all sit here bashing the unions for wanting something for nothing and at the same time you are wondering why pool players aren't GIVEN anything? Does your hypocrisy know no bounds?

Johnny, what about the plumber you took money off a while ago? How much did you give back? Did you go buy that guy's kid a happy meal? Maybe you followed him around until his truck was empty and filled it for him?

Also, Johnny, don't you play on a Valley? You want a company that you didn't support to support you?

Anybody who starts one of these 'pool is in such bad shape' and 'we need a handout' threads should maybe think about how this could ever possibly benefit the people from whom you want money.

dld
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I don't care if they "give back" to pool. But I certainly think that it would be wise of them to invest some money in an effort to expand the market so that they can make more money selling pool tables and paraphernalia. Would they not have a vested interest in promoting a viable Pro Tour that increases the visibility of the game and catches a prospective table buyer's eye? Surely a well run, big name tour would help their cause.
 
macguy said:
They were not in the pool business they were in the bowling business. In fact when pool was on the way down in the 70's they were converting the billiard rooms in the bowling alleys to banquet and meeting rooms. I know because I bought around 200 Gold crowns from Brunswick bowling alleys for around $200.00 on the average and it took me years to get rid of them for any kind of profit at all. Brunswick lanes all but kept pool alive and available for years. Anyone growing up in the 60's and 70's without a doubt got their introduction to the game in a Brunswick Bowling alley. I am not sure Brunswick owes anyone anything. Their debt to the game has been long paid.
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Well, their bowling segment might be bigger than their pool & billiards but obviously, they were (and still are) still significant in pool & billiards, too. So what would the number be today for their pool/billiards sales? Maybe 10 or 20 mil if bowling and billiards segment is over 70 mil, courtesy of oldzilla's link? Where would that rank them in sales volume within the industry, I wonder?

I don't think even I said they had a debt to pool. My beef was to put in realistic perspective what they've done or not done over the years compared with other businesses within the pool/billiard arena. So far, I'm not so impressed over the last 50 years. Maybe godzilla knows more about what they did in the years prior to that. I do not.

The opening question was what they do for pool... In my humble opinion, businesses within ANY industry segment would do well for themselves to help (i.e. put money and effort in) to see their industry segment thrive. That's smart business, is it not?

On the other hand, maybe they prefer to think like slum lords -- take the money & look away while the building crumbles -- that's sometimes good business sense too, like double D said :)
 
1pocket said:
I "do not sound too smart"? Where the hell did that come from?

You were the one that said you "read all about Brunswick" -- I made no such claim. The opening post asks, "What does Brunswick do for pool?" You said something along the lines "they did have it going back then".

Sorry if I disagreed with you at all -- guess I wasn't supposed to...

but I'm still all ears and looking forward to getting better educated about what Brunswick does for pool. If you're so smart, show me the numbers -- I'm man enough to admit if I'm wrong.

I only compared Brunswick to Jansco. Lets compare to Joss cues, or Viking or Diamond and look at what they do for pool as a percentage of their pool related sales, for example. This would be good stuff, and it would be nice to actually know instead of just wonder about it.

Regarding your "90 years ago" comment -- I didn't realize I brought up anything having to do with 90 years ago. I mentioned Mosconi and I compared to Jansco with regard to tournament sponsorship. Jansco was less than fifty years ago -- Maybe Mosconi was being sponsored 70 or even 80 years ago, but that's still a stretch to 90.
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Diamond vs. Brunswick. Well, now, let's see. Diamond is a company that is run by a pool player for pool players. Greg Sullivan puts on the Derby City Classic billiards extravaganza each year. I think that he played in the banks division this last year as well. Now, Brunswick is a company that is run by Dustan McCoy (Chairman and CEO). Have you ever heard his name in relation to anything pool related? I thought not. So, which company do you think does more for pool? My money is on the company that is run by the one who actually loves the game.
 
DoubleD said:
Why would Brunswick 'give back' to pool?

Why should they care? They sell tables now, they make a profit on them.

I'll give you all a tip: No company 'gives' back to anything. They shouldn't, it would be a TERRIBLE business decision.

If Brunswick held a million dollar tour, you can bet it is because they believe that they can make $1.1million back.

Shoot, you all sit here bashing the unions for wanting something for nothing and at the same time you are wondering why pool players aren't GIVEN anything? Does your hypocrisy know no bounds?

Johnny, what about the plumber you took money off a while ago? How much did you give back? Did you go buy that guy's kid a happy meal? Maybe you followed him around until his truck was empty and filled it for him?

Also, Johnny, don't you play on a Valley? You want a company that you didn't support to support you?

Anybody who starts one of these 'pool is in such bad shape' and 'we need a handout' threads should maybe think about how this could ever possibly benefit the people from whom you want money.

dld
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I’m not a pro pool player or did I ever like to play in tournaments, but I do like to watch them. I wouldn’t need a handout even if I did play in tournaments as I’ve worked for a living and retired comfortable. No I don’t support Brunswick because they don’t support pool.

I support billiard cue companies that support pool, like Viking and Cuetec. I support TAR by buying their ppv and stuff from their store. I can’t count how many pool players both male and female I’ve sent or helped send to tournaments in the US and around the world. I’ve bought just about every pool book and dvd weather I thought I could learn from it or not. If a pool player is down on their luck or in poor health and needs a few dollars I’m there for most. Not that this has anything to do with pool but I’ve put 13 single Moms through nursing school in the last 9 years and their all doing fine.

No I wouldn’t give back money I won from a plumber who thought he had the nuts. Johnnyt
 
jalapus logan said:
Diamond vs. Brunswick. Well, now, let's see. Diamond is a company that is run by a pool player for pool players. Greg Sullivan puts on the Derby City Classic billiards extravaganza each year. I think that he played in the banks division this last year as well. Now, Brunswick is a company that is run by Dustan McCoy (Chairman and CEO). Have you ever heard his name in relation to anything pool related? I thought not. So, which company do you think does more for pool? My money is on the company that is run by the one who actually loves the game.
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I think the parallels also would exist if you were to look at Joss and Viking numbers, too -- pool companies that are run by people who love the game are the ones that are spending the most money to promote the game.
 
1pocket said:
Stick with the subject
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I was talking about what everyone was talking about. Brunswick and or overseas production.
Excuse me if I sounded a but shocking earlier, but I hate it when someone chops up my post when they quote me ! Thats what you did to my little post when you first showed up, right ?



Lets move on , we both had good points.
 
Would be a good ad campaign... Will suggest it to Greg... Buy Diamond... Supporting the players since post 1845..... Would even use the outline of the Brunswick table plaque..... Give em to the pros they sponsor and to the buyers of their tables...... Hell sell em at DCC I'll take an XL in Green.....
 
Very interesting to read through the Brunswick "Historical highlights from the first 150 years, 1845 to 1995"
willie_mosconi.jpg
"1931–34
Willie Mosconi joins the pro staff of Brunswick Billiards. Mosconi is destined to become pockets billiards world champion 15 times between 1941 and 1957. In 1932 Brunswick sponsors a World Tournament, with Ralph Greenleaf placing first and Jimmy Caras second. Caras was offered his first Brunswick contract to play exhibitions around the country on Brunswick tables. During 1933–34 Brunswick’s staff of 21 professionals travel the country doing exhibitions."
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So at that time they were loaded up with player reps. However, conspicuously absent after that time frame, they don't seem to mention any sponsorship at all, either of players or of tournaments. Of course they have done stuff since then, but apparently not so much that they would even tout it on their own website.

Are you guys saying that they now have their tables made overseas?? They certainly tout their "American" image.
brunswick_logo.gif
"1995 to today
Brunswick, an American company, begins its second 150 years with a dedication to product and service quality, to design excellence and craftsmanship, and to market leadership. A Brunswick billiard table is quintessentially American, with a heritage and reputation backed by the traditions established, built, and nurtured over the last 150 years. Do you own your piece of history?"
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1pocket said:
Very interesting to read through the Brunswick "Historical highlights from the first 150 years, 1845 to 1995"


So at that time they were loaded up with player reps. However, conspicuously absent after that time frame, they don't seem to mention any sponsorship at all, either of players or of tournaments. Of course they have done stuff since then, but apparently not so much that they would even tout it on their own website.

Are you guys saying that they now have their tables made overseas?? They certainly tout their "American" image.
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Their "American image" is a laughable concept and somewhat offensive if you ask me.
 
I like at least one thing Brunswick did. They bought out the Valley Pool Table Co. which owned the Dynamo Pool Table Co. That was the end of one of the worst Bar Tables (Dynamo) ever made. Thanks Brunswick.....SPF=randyg
 
randyg said:
I like at least one thing Brunswick did. They bought out the Valley Pool Table Co. which owned the Dynamo Pool Table Co. That was the end of one of the worst Bar Tables (Dynamo) ever made. Thanks Brunswick.....SPF=randyg
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They have since sold that operation except for the rights to the name "Air Hockey" as I recall from a recent annual report.

Here is an interesting excerpt from the official history of Brunswick, "Brunswick The Story of of an American Company from 1845 to 1985," by Rick Kogan.

kogan 001.jpg
 
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