USPPA Reno players, did they get paid?
- Thread starter bumpypickle
- Start date
What the heck? He calls that a press release? It looks like some contracts and I don't have the attention span to read what it says...
What does it mean? Did anyone who read it got past the first paragraph and understand what it says?
S.
A standard quality of service for tournaments should be a requirement to have a percentage of the payout immediately available to players for cashing out.
Major scenarios:
What happens if between when they win and some unforeseen accident they are unable to collect payment?
A player has spent all of their money on room, board and transportation and needs the prize money to get home.
A promoter files for bankruptcy and has not paid out players.
These sound like regulations a sanctioning body should enforce by requiring the promoter to surrender funds to a prize account strictly for the players prizes.
Major scenarios:
What happens if between when they win and some unforeseen accident they are unable to collect payment?
A player has spent all of their money on room, board and transportation and needs the prize money to get home.
A promoter files for bankruptcy and has not paid out players.
These sound like regulations a sanctioning body should enforce by requiring the promoter to surrender funds to a prize account strictly for the players prizes.
What the heck? He calls that a press release? It looks like some contracts and I don't have the attention span to read what it says...
What does it mean? Did anyone who read it got past the first paragraph and understand what it says?
S.
Anytime they have something to say it means they know more than you do. The guy should just say I am not here to police promoters but I can tell you that if you get screwed then it is not my fault.
It says that the promoter sometimes bills players for hotel, registration, and table fees. Why those fees are charged individually instead of just sold as player entry fee is what the article addresses. By not making some of those fees optional like the hotel or room rebate, Tony believes it gives players less freedom with deciding a hotel to stay at.
He also suggests that the ratio of added money to player entry fee is a discriminating number that reveals the "quality of the event." A 100 to 1 ratio is the luxury class of tournaments. If the entry fee is $1 then the added money should at least be $100 dollars. The idea is your $1 can win $100 dollars. Check the back of scratch tickets to see the odds of standard lottery type games.
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People with some money are always looking for a way to turn it into more money. More often people that know this and some advertising, use those ideas to create get rich quick investors every now and then, in this case "pool fools".
The best is when the investors are just trying the product or service out, that is when you can put on a good show and hope next years turn out is better. During that time everyone is excited by the "bells and whistles" that no one thinks about what is cheaply dressed up.
The online college system refers to it as "passes in the classes" a catchy slogan referencing federal loans and people that sign up for them.
What happened is someone spent all the money or a last minute deal fell through and now someone is scrambling to bring in cash. It takes time to process returns hopefully whatever it is that was bought is easily refundable.
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Well, that's fine if there are 50 entries, but if there are 1000 entries, there's only 10% added. I think it should be according to the % added money.
Since there is no standard for pool tournament prize funds, each player needs to figure out for himself whether a particular tournament is a good deal for his situation. Except for the top 5 (or maybe 10) players in an event, you can be pretty sure you will lose money on average so you better be looking for something from the tournament other than profit.
In contrast there is the situation in the carom world. In WorldCup events -- which is essentially the pro 3-cushion tour -- the entry fee is a standard $140 for anyone who wants to get in. The prize fund is $70,000 (more or less) regardless of the number of entries. The top 20 players do not pay an entry fee and get their rooms and travel more or less paid for, which ensures that all of them will be there.
Bob,
After playing the game I love so much for over fifty years, I've come to one conclusion. Added money, prize funds, guaranteed prize fund, guaranteed...et al is nothing but verbal masterbation. Lots of talk and very little action
! Lyn
Well,
Tony Annigoni is at California Billiards for his Annual USPPA Tournament. That one must be another unpaid tournament.
I also have the guys telephone number if anybody needs to ask him any questions. Best bet is to go Cal Billiards in Mountain View.
Tony Annigoni is at California Billiards for his Annual USPPA Tournament. That one must be another unpaid tournament.
I also have the guys telephone number if anybody needs to ask him any questions. Best bet is to go Cal Billiards in Mountain View.
Mark, I see your problem very clearly now. You need to get off the fence and say what you mean. All this beating around the bush, do you like the guy or not??
If you mean http://www.californiabilliardclub.com/Tournaments.html I think it is a different organization that is run by Bob Beaulieu.
Bob,
After playing the game I love so much for over fifty years, I've come to one conclusion. Added money, prize funds, guaranteed prize fund, guaranteed...et al is nothing but verbal masterbation. Lots of talk and very little action
Lyn
Lyn,
DO NOT put legitimate promoters and events in the same category as the ones who do not perform! If CSI (BCAPL-USAPL etc) say added money, that is what it is. Our guarantee has always been paid out. WE do what we say we will do.
I have been doing events since 1988. EVERYONE has been paid ON THE SPOT. (Even at the ill fated Qlympics in 2007 - I paid out over $80,000 - giving me a loss of over $40,000. Because I said it would be paid out) Do I want recognition - YEAH I DO!
I know you did not mean to put the good operators in the same pile as the BS artists. I just want to clear that up.
Players keep supporting the bad promoters. Maybe this will bring some of the players to their senses and to make sure the promoter can perform. I am seriously thinking of posting up the added money for the US OPEN ONE POCKET and the US OPEN 10-BALL (with the Riviera) - only to show there is a proper way of doing buisness. And to put pressure on those other events to 'show the money' if they are going to put out big guarantees.
This business is NOT for the faint hearted or weak. But - like anything else, you are only as good as your word!
Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL
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I totally agree. Mark, this is why a large majority of pool enthusiasts want YOU to control Pool in the USA. Especially on the Pro level.
I have done plenty of business with Mark G and the financial aspect of what he says he will do he will do. Its as simple as that, I know there are other promoters out there who pay and pay on time what they say they will but unfortunatly they are few and far between. If Griffin says the added $$ is 5k then take it to the bank it will be there even if he takes a bath it will be there on time.
Mark its time you took over in my opinion. I am not biased here I do not work for MG but I do consider him a friend. Put all that aside and lets say I hate the guy, there is no getting away from the fact he does what he says he will do and that may be what this sport needs.
Wrong!
No it is not the best bet. Maybe go to usppa.com is better. Chris at California does not want to have anything to do with Tony at this time. Just ask him and watch his reaction to that name. Almost as bad as Mark Griffin.
Where did u get idea the tourny at California was a usppa even. The Worldppa has been advetising this tourney for awhile and several rooms in the San Jose/Santa Cruz area has been playing this organization for months. As a Californian it seems you would be more up to date. I only speak this in order to protect the so far good name of the wpaa as there now is a big feud and falling out with fomer and current usppa members with Tony. He has burned too many bridges.
By the way there were couple of winners from the Reno event at CB C last night who still had not been paid.
No it is not the best bet. Maybe go to usppa.com is better. Chris at California does not want to have anything to do with Tony at this time. Just ask him and watch his reaction to that name. Almost as bad as Mark Griffin.
Where did u get idea the tourny at California was a usppa even. The Worldppa has been advetising this tourney for awhile and several rooms in the San Jose/Santa Cruz area has been playing this organization for months. As a Californian it seems you would be more up to date. I only speak this in order to protect the so far good name of the wpaa as there now is a big feud and falling out with fomer and current usppa members with Tony. He has burned too many bridges.
By the way there were couple of winners from the Reno event at CB C last night who still had not been paid.
Bob is an awesome guy and I was actually supposed to play on the tournament but I fell asleep.
Anytime I can I always support Bob.
You are absolutely correct!!!! It certanly was not intended as you understood it. Truthfully, I am very disappointed in Tony Annigoni. Really don't want to hear the players didn't get paid as promised. Poop happens though. Kind of like finding out Santa Claus is not real (your father in costurme???). You really want to believe but it is really, really hard.
In the end, the only real thing each of us has is their word. I don't believe in giving someone a third chance. No one is perfect so I always forgive once. Twice is just stupid. In my view its just one less person whose word I might trust. I sincerely hope this thread, like the one someone started saying the Turning Stone is no longer a BCA ranking event, is just as I described in an earlier post, verbal masterbation.
Lyn
Mark,
I think the players support questionable promoters because there is no alternative. In some areas of the country, there are few to no events available on a given weekend. When one appears, we jump at it. Guys like Mike Zuglan have been doing the players right for many, many years. He is one of the good guys. I've never had to ask where my money was at one of your (BCAPL, CSI) events as well. Unfortunately when something like this happens, it not only blackens Tony's eye, it transfers to you and the rest of the pool promoters as well. It shouldn't happen but it does!
Lyn
Lyn, this is exactly why I got so peeved when Trudeau stalled so long making payments at his final event. I knew that his behavior would reflect on all the legitimate promoters as well. And it has!
For the same reason, I had an intense dislike for Mackey, who saw fit to stiff the players on the last FIVE stops of the Camel Pro Tour! They had to play anyway to qualify for the separate prize fund Camel had put up for the the top twenty players at the end of the tour. Even after Mackey got the settlement from Camel for over 600K he never made good on his promise to pay the players what he owed them. It was always amazing to me that they all fell for his line of BS. I picked him out early on. I tried telling a lot of the players not to trust him, but they blew me off, just like they did with Trudeau. When Kevin baby was making all those big promises to the players, I began asking if they had anything in writing. Of course they didn't and the rest is history as they say.
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Reno USPPA and (non) payouts
bump
until the promoter decides to respond. . . . .
mark griffin
bump
until the promoter decides to respond. . . . .
mark griffin