That's two fouls on you, and I've got you hooked. Shoot again!
USPPA Reno players, did they get paid?
- Thread starter bumpypickle
- Start date
That's two fouls on you, and I've got you hooked. Shoot again!
I have working in the casino industry for years, I will tell you this FATBOY is right, the gaming commission can give at rats ass if some pool players gets paid. They are there to make sure the casino is not losing money and that all laws are being followed.
Just like when TAR almost got shut down at DCC, it was the fact that there was gambling going on outside of the casino witch is taking people away from playing the tables and slots.
If they have anything to do with it the only gambling that happens will be at a game were the casino is making money.
SO, does this excuse hold water, well about as much as a boat full of holes.
TONY, try a different excuse, this one is just pure BS.
On another note, if you want to see how things should be done, just look at somebody's past. MARK GRIFFIN has a great reputation for a reason. The PLAYERS get PAID.
The WPBA made a HUGE mistake by not taking his services when they were offered. The sad part is they are on a downward spiral and soon my be just like the men and have no tour.
Just like when TAR almost got shut down at DCC, it was the fact that there was gambling going on outside of the casino witch is taking people away from playing the tables and slots.
If they have anything to do with it the only gambling that happens will be at a game were the casino is making money.
SO, does this excuse hold water, well about as much as a boat full of holes.
TONY, try a different excuse, this one is just pure BS.
On another note, if you want to see how things should be done, just look at somebody's past. MARK GRIFFIN has a great reputation for a reason. The PLAYERS get PAID.
The WPBA made a HUGE mistake by not taking his services when they were offered. The sad part is they are on a downward spiral and soon my be just like the men and have no tour.
while technically the men do not have a tour in name what they do have are 7 independently produced and strong events that are BCA point events with over a quarter of a million in combined added money.
this is nothing to sneeze at...Jerry Forsyth and Mike Howerton have been working with the BCA for the past few years on the BCA point list, events and event criteria. Doing an excellent job too.
Tour in name specific? no
De-Facto? yes
this is nothing to sneeze at...Jerry Forsyth and Mike Howerton have been working with the BCA for the past few years on the BCA point list, events and event criteria. Doing an excellent job too.
Tour in name specific? no
De-Facto? yes
Reno & USPPA (non) payoutsn
justnum said:
"Perhaps the players and prize money could be help by something like paypal. This way there is no chance of someone splurging the cash on hookers and drugs or paying old loans. It is more of Swiss bank type thing where people drop money into an account that stays locked until the prize winners cashout, but I doubt a Swiss bank account is something you are interested in applying for."
That is WAY to cumbersome. CSI and all of its subsidiaries have the solution - and it is the way we have been doing since 2004 (when we took over the league): It is real simple.
Write a check to the winner. Player takes the check to the casino and can cash it. Or take it home and deposit it to his account. If not at a casino, we always make arrangmeents with a local banking institution to cash the checks. No smoke - No BS - just normal business paractices.
We also would NEVER do anything on this magnitude witha 3rd party like Paypal. Because if there are any screwups, we have to make them good!
What upsets me is the non paying (or slow paying) promoters are hurting the credibility of the whole industry. Every year or two it seems there is a 'new' guy in the business who refuses to listen to the industry on what will or will not work. The Galveston crew had the opportunity to be a big boost to the industry - but they were convinced of their methods and would not listen to most of the industry leaders (who want successful events because 'a rising tide lifts all ships' ) - and instead went bust - after changing most of the rules and payouts midstream. Truduea was another one that could have changed the face of pool forever!
Before I die I really want to see pool get out of the gutter and be a respectful occupation!
mark Griffin, CEO
CSI-BCAPL-USAPL
justnum said:
"Perhaps the players and prize money could be help by something like paypal. This way there is no chance of someone splurging the cash on hookers and drugs or paying old loans. It is more of Swiss bank type thing where people drop money into an account that stays locked until the prize winners cashout, but I doubt a Swiss bank account is something you are interested in applying for."
That is WAY to cumbersome. CSI and all of its subsidiaries have the solution - and it is the way we have been doing since 2004 (when we took over the league): It is real simple.
Write a check to the winner. Player takes the check to the casino and can cash it. Or take it home and deposit it to his account. If not at a casino, we always make arrangmeents with a local banking institution to cash the checks. No smoke - No BS - just normal business paractices.
We also would NEVER do anything on this magnitude witha 3rd party like Paypal. Because if there are any screwups, we have to make them good!
What upsets me is the non paying (or slow paying) promoters are hurting the credibility of the whole industry. Every year or two it seems there is a 'new' guy in the business who refuses to listen to the industry on what will or will not work. The Galveston crew had the opportunity to be a big boost to the industry - but they were convinced of their methods and would not listen to most of the industry leaders (who want successful events because 'a rising tide lifts all ships' ) - and instead went bust - after changing most of the rules and payouts midstream. Truduea was another one that could have changed the face of pool forever!
Before I die I really want to see pool get out of the gutter and be a respectful occupation!
mark Griffin, CEO
CSI-BCAPL-USAPL
Tap, Tap, Tap.
IMO pool is already out of the gutter with a lot of pool players now, compared to 25 years ago.
But it is still an uphill battle for pool to ever gain any significant amount of respectability (outside of the industry).
Is there something you wish to accuse Jay Helfert of on this public forum? You appear to be beating around the bush. Jabbing needles to see how he responds. I've only known Jay for a decade or so. Mostly playing some of the events in Reno he promoted. I've also purchased from his website. I know him. Don't know you! Actually he doesn't need a defender. He does wonderfully himself. What's the story?
Lyn
The people I am familiar with are trust worthy but it does not mean insurance is not needed.
You are absolutely right about how simple it is. But you can count on some people to find a good reason to delay payment.
Aside from this being an exercise in organizational planning, it is ultimately up to the players to decide what they do with their money. If they like playing tournaments then let them play in tournaments. The only thing I wanted to mention is that some players can bring in crowds, and that means dollars directly to the promoter. If they play for free and aren't cashed out with prize money than the promoter made a decent chunk of change for almost nothing, the upfront fees have to be taken care of, usually a credit card purchase that needs to be repaid.
Famous Pool Players = Ticket Sales, Prize Money = Famous Pool Players.
The unusual occurrence is ticket sales do not become prize money. But prize money can become ticket sales.
Last edited:
[Originally posted by Justnum...The unusual occurrence is ticket sales do not become prize money. But prize money can become ticket sales.[/QUOTE]
Your not taking into account overhead or cost of production, ticket sales does not equate to profit, but income to go toward expendatures.
Your not taking into account overhead or cost of production, ticket sales does not equate to profit, but income to go toward expendatures.
Last edited:
Your not taking into account overhead or cost of production, ticket sales does not equate to profit, but income to go toward expendatures.[/QUOTE]
I am considering upfront costs versus delayed costs. Prize money can be a delayed cost, renting the venue and equipment and advertising is an upfront cost. Cash from ticket sales can be used however the operator wishes. If prize money were an upfront cost like renting equipment or a room then delayed payouts would never happen. Since the sanctioning bodies do not regulate or enforce that type of rule then players are left waiting it out. I mention the sanctioning bodies because it is a matter of "if I get mine I don't care if you don't get yours." That is the same thinking for lots of investors.
Last edited:
I tihnk this thread can be summed up nicely with a single statement.
"For the love of all that is holy Mark G would you finally officially take over mens pool in America and start a true tour?"
Make the pool version of the PGA. Incorperate the large and successful events into the tour, with the BCA adding extra money and having a more active role in the overseeing of these events. Events like the US Open can become majors on the tour.
The one clear thing is single tournaments are going to have a way harder time gaining the larger sponsers. A tour can put more resources into getting Coke, Budweisser, Southwest Air, and other types of companies to be official sponsers of the tour. A single oneoff even like the US Open has no real ability to get anything like that, a tour has a chance though.
Until this sport becomes a true tour it is going nowhere, each event has no chance to make the sport on their own. Together with some central focus and combining all of the events interests together? That could get the sport actually moving forward, which would be a shocking change for us fans. Growth in the sport... wow that would be unreal to see.
"For the love of all that is holy Mark G would you finally officially take over mens pool in America and start a true tour?"
Make the pool version of the PGA. Incorperate the large and successful events into the tour, with the BCA adding extra money and having a more active role in the overseeing of these events. Events like the US Open can become majors on the tour.
The one clear thing is single tournaments are going to have a way harder time gaining the larger sponsers. A tour can put more resources into getting Coke, Budweisser, Southwest Air, and other types of companies to be official sponsers of the tour. A single oneoff even like the US Open has no real ability to get anything like that, a tour has a chance though.
Until this sport becomes a true tour it is going nowhere, each event has no chance to make the sport on their own. Together with some central focus and combining all of the events interests together? That could get the sport actually moving forward, which would be a shocking change for us fans. Growth in the sport... wow that would be unreal to see.
Celtic...How can you be so shortsighted? Do you honestly believe that ONE person can "fix" men's pool in America? Mark Griffin is an honest, intelligent, and motivated person...but he is only one person. The only thing that will 'fix' professional pool is when the professional players decide, AS A GROUP, that they want to work together towards a common goal. At that point, someone like Mark might lead a group of people towards that end. Until then, Mark has enough on his plate, running his own businessess, and promoting pool the best way he knows how...by putting his money where his mouth is...and having integrity.
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
The whole community did with Trudeau, I believe past experiences are repeated. An interesting discussion to me is about how to prevent that repetition. A player said they would kiss the guy. Maybe the dream is worth so much that everyone and anyone will believe in it as long as someone puts the idea out there.
Nope
A friend of mine just talked to Jeff Gregory awhile ago and he has not gotten paid. (He was the $5000.00 winner). The latest excuse was the check he got from the casino needed 10 days to clear. I think the tourny has been over for more than that. He is one hot cookie.
I have cashed in a lot of Reno tournaments, the Usppa and the Open and have always got paid cash immediately after my elimination match. I do not know why going to a different casino from the Sands would make any difference. A lot of b.s. from Tony as usual.
A friend of mine just talked to Jeff Gregory awhile ago and he has not gotten paid. (He was the $5000.00 winner). The latest excuse was the check he got from the casino needed 10 days to clear. I think the tourny has been over for more than that. He is one hot cookie.
I have cashed in a lot of Reno tournaments, the Usppa and the Open and have always got paid cash immediately after my elimination match. I do not know why going to a different casino from the Sands would make any difference. A lot of b.s. from Tony as usual.
Annigoni called Carl Wilson and Jeff Heath and Jeff Gregory today and said that the checks would be going out by the END of NEXT week. He assured that the funds would be covered and apologized for the delay. More details to come later. If that is the truth, it would be almost a month before getting paid for this tournament. Talk about bad timing right before Christmas.
IMHO the saddest thing about this THREAD is that there was the QUESTION: "USPPA Reno players, did they get paid? "
The second saddest thing about this thread is what other sport would this question even have been asked?
Or to be blunt when was the last time Bowlers, Golfers, Tennis Players, Baseball Players, Hockey Player, Football Players, or etc. Be they amateur or Profession ask where is our salary, or moines won post event?
The second saddest thing about this thread is what other sport would this question even have been asked?
Or to be blunt when was the last time Bowlers, Golfers, Tennis Players, Baseball Players, Hockey Player, Football Players, or etc. Be they amateur or Profession ask where is our salary, or moines won post event?
Can't hold my tongue any longer!!!!!!!
In my opinion, USPPA was a great organization 15 years ago, but since Tony has taken full control he has drove it into the ground. He uses threats of lawsuits to former friends and room owners that have supported him in the past.
Lately he has been going around to pool rooms that he couldn’t give a shit about 10 years ago because he has burned bridges with past rooms. I have never meet anyone out there that has had any nice things to say about Tony. I had supported him when the USPPA was thrown out of the Sands. That’s right, Tony did not leave the Sands he was excused from the Sands. I tried to help him find his way and offered California Billiard Club as a place to hold his annual event until he could find something or someway back to Reno!!! Tony being Tony, decided to go behind my back and wreck relationships with tournament supporters and sponsors of my room. Getting added money from him was a battle and a fight!
I luckily was smart enough to see right through his BS and I separated myself and my business from Tony before he pulled me under.
I hope that the players and room owners out there see what Tony is doing and refuse to let this guy in. We as owners and players need to stop supporting guys like this. The only reason he is around is because we allow it!!!!!!!! Stop supporting Tony and his events and he will go away!!!!!!!
On a separate note:
I would like to thank Mark Griffin and CSI for promoting pool and rooms. I would be honored to run any tourney. or organization that they are involved in. These are the promoters we should support for the betterment of our sport and At least I would know the players would be paid
In my opinion, USPPA was a great organization 15 years ago, but since Tony has taken full control he has drove it into the ground. He uses threats of lawsuits to former friends and room owners that have supported him in the past.
Lately he has been going around to pool rooms that he couldn’t give a shit about 10 years ago because he has burned bridges with past rooms. I have never meet anyone out there that has had any nice things to say about Tony. I had supported him when the USPPA was thrown out of the Sands. That’s right, Tony did not leave the Sands he was excused from the Sands. I tried to help him find his way and offered California Billiard Club as a place to hold his annual event until he could find something or someway back to Reno!!! Tony being Tony, decided to go behind my back and wreck relationships with tournament supporters and sponsors of my room. Getting added money from him was a battle and a fight!
I luckily was smart enough to see right through his BS and I separated myself and my business from Tony before he pulled me under.
I hope that the players and room owners out there see what Tony is doing and refuse to let this guy in. We as owners and players need to stop supporting guys like this. The only reason he is around is because we allow it!!!!!!!! Stop supporting Tony and his events and he will go away!!!!!!!
On a separate note:
I would like to thank Mark Griffin and CSI for promoting pool and rooms. I would be honored to run any tourney. or organization that they are involved in. These are the promoters we should support for the betterment of our sport and At least I would know the players would be paid
Reno & USPPA (non) payoutsn
I know that this thread is like beating a dead horse - but I agree with 'cabilliardclub' and his assessement about Tony.
I know if my name is mentioned, he starts spewing how I am 'the bad guy' and whatever. Our room in Alaska played in the USPPA back in late 1980's. It was a good system when Gene Starry was involved.
If anyone really wants the 'skinny' on all of Tony's crazy antics, just ask around - ask anyone that has been in the west coast pool scene for 20 years and you will be astounded at the stories. (players are a good source-but the room owners and promoters are the most knowledgeable sources).
Gene died a couple of years ago. I think Tony pretty much had full control for the last 7-10 years or so - and I think his attitude has ruined the reputation of the system.
In addition, I believe Tony destroyed the possibility of continuing the 9' table events at the Reno Sands.
It is too bad - but my advice: check out who you are going to be doing business with.
I like it when someone tries to pull a fast one and the 'billiard community' catches them. The industry needs to get rid of the bad operators - it just makes ALL of us look bad!
Mark Griffin
markg@playcsipool.com
I know that this thread is like beating a dead horse - but I agree with 'cabilliardclub' and his assessement about Tony.
I know if my name is mentioned, he starts spewing how I am 'the bad guy' and whatever. Our room in Alaska played in the USPPA back in late 1980's. It was a good system when Gene Starry was involved.
If anyone really wants the 'skinny' on all of Tony's crazy antics, just ask around - ask anyone that has been in the west coast pool scene for 20 years and you will be astounded at the stories. (players are a good source-but the room owners and promoters are the most knowledgeable sources).
Gene died a couple of years ago. I think Tony pretty much had full control for the last 7-10 years or so - and I think his attitude has ruined the reputation of the system.
In addition, I believe Tony destroyed the possibility of continuing the 9' table events at the Reno Sands.
It is too bad - but my advice: check out who you are going to be doing business with.
I like it when someone tries to pull a fast one and the 'billiard community' catches them. The industry needs to get rid of the bad operators - it just makes ALL of us look bad!
Mark Griffin
markg@playcsipool.com
I know about 2 or 3 owners of big pool rooms in Northern Cal that share your feelings.