Jay, in your defense, I watched some of that tourney with a female pool player who knew some of the players and hob nobbed with them. It was an enjoyable tourny and everybody seemed to have a good time but a few who lost;-)
USPPA Reno players, did they get paid?
- Thread starter bumpypickle
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Jay, in your defense, I watched some of that tourney with a female pool player who knew some of the players and hob nobbed with them. It was an enjoyable tourny and everybody seemed to have a good time but a few who lost;-)
Jay,
I always enjoy the tourneys that you put on or help to put on for you are the best. I have had my appreciation of pool enhanced by your LA Opens and more recently the Swamy's and your commentaries when you are in the booth.
That you were involved with the WPBA goes unappreciated. Perhaps you should be consulted to help them out.
I've never talked about this before, at least not publicly. It's water under the bridge now, but it is also a lesson in history for whoever is in the driver's seat of the WPBA currently. I would suggest they don't treat anyone like my sister and I were treated many years ago.
Over ten years ago the WPBA was looking for new leadership and a new direction. They asked for qualified people to make applications to either direct their events or become their marketing agent. My sister and I had one brief meeting in Arizona with a couple of the board members, and decided to follow up with our applications. Naturally I applied for the position of tournament director which I felt well qualified for. My sister meanwhile applied to be their marketing director.
Now let me tell you about my sister, since she is an unknown in the pool world. Reason being that she was an Assistant District Attorney in Los Angeles for several years before moving on to entertainment law. Carole (my sister) wrote the original contracts for Jane Fonda's Workout videos, which became the first big seller in that market. This same contract became the "boiler plate" that all subsequent movie video contracts were based on.
After this success, Carole moved on to Disney Channel and worked in their legal department for several years, before MGM hired her away. She became a Vice President in their legal department, doing contract work for all movie video sales. After many years there, Carole moved over to Paramount and became the head of their entire legal department with sixty people under her. She retired from that job over ten years ago and was looking for a new challenge.
I told her about the opportunity to help build the WPBA and Carole thought that might be an exciting new challenge. With the contacts she had made in over twenty five years in the entertainment industry, she was confident she could bring new (and much bigger) sponsorship and more television exposure to their tour. So she took the time to make a detailed application, outlining her plan to market the WPBA tour. Was she qualified? Over qualified in my opinion. I felt that the WPBA would be extremely fortunate to have Carole working on their behalf. She had a proven track record and knew how to get things done.
Bottom line - the WPBA NEVER even responded to my application or Carole's! No one ever got back to us to tell us anything after we filed our applications. No request for interviews or even a letter telling us they had found someone else. My sister was blown away by this total unprofessionalism and quickly lost any interest she had in working with these women, or professional pool for that matter. She has never discussed it with me since.
I always felt this was a big loss for the WPBA, not because of me, there are other competent TD's. But because they blew off someone who really could have helped them. It was an insult to my sister and a disappoint to me. But my career in pool has been studded with such disappointments by people who don't really have a clue how to run a business. I've shouldered on in spite of this, always finding a niche for myself somewhere. But I feel unfulfilled after all these years, because of what could have been.
A few of my major disappointments:
1980's proposal to the BCA (who was flush and strong at the time) to produce a national pro pool tour, with twelve events in major cities across the country. Turned down!
1990's Los Angeles Opens - these were designed to be models for other promoters to duplicate in their own cities. The whole plan was squelched by Don Mackey and others.
And then this affront by the WPBA years later. No, I'm not bitter. All this has done is make me more realistic in my goals. I realize now how short sighted so many in this industry are. It's not just the players who want only for themselves. This inability to see the big picture has permeated throughout the industry as long as I've been around. And to the detriment of everyone in it.
Twenty five years ago Richie Florence was on the verge of making professional pool a major television sport, but some very poor choices by a handful of players brought an end to all his efforts. All these years later, nothing has changed. Only Matchroom has been able to stay above the strife and produce successful, high profile events year after year.
I'm sorry to have to share all this, but I feel like I'm writing to my second family on here. I value all the friends I've made here the last few years. This has been the biggest reward in pool for me. The great people I have met along the way. Well, 2011 is a new year and who knows, maybe pool will finally arrive!
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That was a good read, Jay, about your experience in dealing with various pool entities over the years, and it is a travesty that nothing came of your kind offers and effort to effect a change.
That said, I must comment on Jane Fonda's workout videos. Those are my favorite. I have every single one of her older workout videos, but I have the VHS versions. I would love to have her old workout videos in DVD versions.
"Feel the burn." That was Jane Fonda's favorite expression.
She just came out with a brand-new workout video, which I am definitely going to get. She still looks pretty sporty at 72 years old.
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![fitstrong2[1].jpg](/data/attachments/122/122519-abd0d14ae192ac02fd4b95cd75a3308d.jpg?hash=q9DRSuGSrA)
really
I cannot believe that picture is of her at 72 years old.......
That was a good read, Jay, about your experience in dealing with various pool entities over the years, and it is a travesty that nothing came of your kind offers and effort to effect a change.
That said, I must comment on Jane Fonda's workout videos. Those are my favorite. I have every single one of her older workout videos, but I have the VHS versions. I would love to have her old workout videos in DVD versions.
"Feel the burn." That was Jane Fonda's favorite expression.
She just came out with a brand-new workout video, which I am definitely going to get. She still looks pretty sporty at 72 years old.
I cannot believe that picture is of her at 72 years old.......
Seeing is believing, as they say! :thumbup:
Every time I see her in the news with her svelte body, I keep thinking there's hope for my 56-year-old self. :embarrassed2:
I've always exercised off and on, my entire life. I wish I had been more religious about it, like Jane. Some people, this is the first thing they do when they wake up, before they have coffee, and you can tell when you see their physical shape.
Here she is again a week or so ago on the Jay Leno show.
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I see under your name is WorldPPA, what organization is that?Mark,
Not paying winners at tournaments is ridiculous and unacceptable... Worse, no clear communications on what happened. I can't think of any excuse that will make Tony Annigoni look good.
Gene Stary, was a very good friend of mine. You are right, he did do an excellent job with running the USPPA; and, Tony has nearly destroyed the USPPA. Yes, there is hope for a USPPA without Annigoni. I just spoke with Gene Stary's wife and real owner of the USPPA; Ambar, was totally surprised to hear about the Reno Event and Tony NOT paying the winners. She was shocked to hear this news and no doubt, has come to the realization that she will have to take a more active role in management of the USPPA, if it is to have any chance of surviving. You can bet she will be talking to Annigoni ASAP...
Mark Griffin, I'd like to personally thank you for all that you do for pool players. You are a "Class Act" Sir!
Bob Beaulieu
WorldPPA
Is there a policy you would have wanted enforced before the tournament so this never happens?
After the fact anger is not enjoyable for anyone. And waiting after the event is even worse because payment was surrendered. It would be great if there was a policy to shift the waiting to the promoter so that the prizes are ready ahead of time. Before the event begins the promoter would have to have the prizes available otherwise all players backout of the "rodeo show."
I don't know if that is practical or people can do that, it just seems like an idea that would have prevented this situation.
One more picture to give me hope. If Jane Fonda can do it, so can I!
I am completely joking.
I can supply you with the lighting and camera equipment to give you those great curves and youthful skin looks. The cost seems high but it is because you are getting the latest in lighting technology and filming production equipment. I can film you, it won't be free but you will be happy with the product.
I also do weddings and bah mitzvahs.
I understand that. Hey, makeup does wonders, too.
Her body is fit, though. You can see she's got wrinkles, but it's her slimness in her body that is something that I admire. At 72, she sure does look better in that skin-tight spandex outfit than many younger folk would. :embarrassed2:
I understand that. Hey, makeup does wonders, too.
Her body is fit, though. You can see she's got wrinkles, but it's her slimness in her body that is something that I admire. At 72, she sure does look better in that skin-tight spandex outfit than many younger folk would. :embarrassed2:
She is a better sell for being seen, I completely agree with you that looking better requires a thin appearance. At that age I plan to either retire or be doing hobby work.
I love seeing old people work, but after awhile it seems like they should do something new. I admit there are some people that have such legendary reputations that people want them working for them as long as they can but it seems unreasonable. It seems more of a reward for all the years of service and not a pleasure type thing.
Even seeing Leno back working after Conan official had the job was an insult. The guy clearly has money, why not move on. If anyone is to blame it was the NBC exec who recruited Leno back to push Conan out. This is a different topic but Conan is younger and more energetic and they could've developed him to the needs of the 11pm slot. But they were lazy and just pulled in an old show dog for the quick fix.
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Reno and non-payment
I am not sure why you going down this road. The promoter MUST have the money available to pay the players. That is how it is done. This is not golf where you are dealing in millions in prize funds- this is probably under $20,000!!! I award close to $800,000 in this may. Paid in full- on the spot! To suggest otherwise is inappropriate.
This is the promoter's responsibility.
That is what Tony did not do. On top of that, he has not even tried to provide the 'truth'. And as stated before, all his crap now will cause legitimate events to have a harder time. Possibly to the level that fewer players will participate.
All of this was preventable.
Mark griffin
I am not sure why you going down this road. The promoter MUST have the money available to pay the players. That is how it is done. This is not golf where you are dealing in millions in prize funds- this is probably under $20,000!!! I award close to $800,000 in this may. Paid in full- on the spot! To suggest otherwise is inappropriate.
This is the promoter's responsibility.
That is what Tony did not do. On top of that, he has not even tried to provide the 'truth'. And as stated before, all his crap now will cause legitimate events to have a harder time. Possibly to the level that fewer players will participate.
All of this was preventable.
Mark griffin
I understand that. Hey, makeup does wonders, too.
Her body is fit, though. You can see she's got wrinkles, but it's her slimness in her body that is something that I admire. At 72, she sure does look better in that skin-tight spandex outfit than many younger folk would. :embarrassed2:
Her complex carb and low fat protein diet doesn't hurt her either.:smile:
Merry Christmas and a properous New Year to you and Keith.:thumbup:
I can't wait for the next book.
Paying Off The Rail.
Paying Off The Rail.
I agree the promoters must have the money available. The players would then need an assurance or proof of the prize payout ready for cashing.
If there is no proof of prize money before the tournament begins and the players decide to backout then everyone suffers a loss, not just the players. Lose-Lose situations are not something I am telling people to push for. It is an alternate scenario in an imperfect set of ideas. I am not saying I know what is best, I am just entertaining other possibilities.
But what alternatives are promoters, the specific Reno promoter, giving players when it comes to delivering the prizes on time? Or what assurances do promoters give players besides their word that the prize money is in the bank? Sometimes a person's word isn't good enough, that is the point I am trying to emphasize in this post.
Maybe I am just not getting it. What I am getting from this post is if the promoter can't prove the money is there then the players might back out and so there will be no tourney so all suffer.. Right? Well I think that if the players go and the players don't get paid then only the players suffer and the promoter is ok.. Right??
Sorry, I just don't think that is a reasonable way to do this. How can the money not be there?? before you announce a tourney don't you need to make sure that you have all your added money covered and the production costs covered? Then the players pay their entry in advance so that money is there. After that the promoter has to have ways to get the expenses back with gate, PPV, Sponsorship etc and hope he makes his or her money back and some extra so they can actually make money. Well thats the way I see it.
The other option is Announce the tourney and get the players there and hope you have a good gate and hope you can come up with the added money and hope you get sponsors and if you don't you are screwed. However in this case at the worst wouldn't at least the enty fees be on hand to pay the players something??? Or does the promoter just keep the enty fees cos they could not come up with the money to cover the cost?
If I remember right, they were supposed to have a Pro event going on at the same time and that was cancelled. If so why was it cancelled? maybe the money wasn't there for that either and maybe it would be easier to stiff the league players and go somewhat under the radar than it would be to stiff the Pros as they maybe get more attention.
Until the prizes are cashed out there is no other time available to the public or players to know if the prize money is ready and available. Until the prizes are cashed the added money is just an advertising gimmick.
The specifics of what promoters do with the door fee I am unqualified to speak on. But the risks of having a promoter handle door fee finances in a gambling area is they can try to double the money at the roulette table.
In short the players have always had to wait out payment. I think if the tournament play is used as a bargaining chip to interest promoters to pay on time then fewer conflicts could happen.
I hate to say it is just money and that shouldn't be the main concern, but to promoters they treat the player prize money like a quick loan for a bad habit.
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It is my past that shades my opinion on the topic because if there is one bad apple then the whole bushel is thought to be bad. In this case if there is a bad promoter than all promoters should agree to a convention to acknowledge who they good ones are and who the bad ones are. The convention would be proof of prize money.
I forfeited a whole tournament once because I didn't believe in the system. I just lost airfare and entry fee. That is the same story as a player starting out.