USPPA Reno players, did they get paid?

In closing, we encourage any players in any organizations or participants in any events that feel they have been adversely affected by any of the aforementioned practices to feel free to contact Tony Annigoni of The United States Pool Players Association at 831-277-0216, or by email at tony@usppa.com. While we certainly are in no position to regulate other organizations there are remedies for practices like these and we are more than happy to share the ones that have been brought to our attention.

Tony Annigoni

This was the closing from the USPPA article linked above and it made me chuckle... Maybe Tony knows some remedies for the practice of not paying your tournament winner... Someone should give him a call.....
 
TATE said:
I don't see anything incorrect about using rebates. commissions, vendor booth fees, advertising proceeds, or any other form of income generated as being added to the prize fund, as long as the prizes promised are accurately stated and are there when it's time to pay them.

The problem is the promotor must have ample cash backing and pay promptly. It's pretty obvious to me that some of these events are being put on by people with cash flow problems.

Chris
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Chris, at first glance it doesn't seem like there's anything wrong with calling room rebate money added money, but think about this: Players are paying a certain amount to the hotel for their rooms. A percentage of what they pay gets rebated back to the promoter who has calculated that as part of the added money. So the promoter is getting credit for adding added money when it really is extra money paid by the players. I'd rather call it an enhanced entry fee rather than deceive everyone into thinking that the promoter is reaching into his or her pocket to add all this extra money.

What I have seen first hand what Tony Annigoni does is that he requests the hotels to just charge the players less for the rooms rather than jack up the prices and rebate the promoter.

If there is a hotel rebate going to the promoter, then the promoter should list it as a separate line item as money going into the prize fund from hotel rebates rather than give the illusion of added money.
 
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FranCrimi said:
Chris, at first glance it doesn't seem like there's anything wrong with calling room rebate money added money, but think about this: Players are paying a certain amount to the hotel for their rooms. A percentage of what they pay gets rebated back to the promoter who has calculated that as part of the added money. So the promoter is getting credit for adding added money when it really is extra money paid by the players. I'd rather call it an enhanced entry fee rather than deceive everyone into thinking that the promoter is reaching into his or her pocket to add all this extra money.

What I have seen first hand what Tony Annigoni does is that he requests the hotels to just charge the players less for the rooms rather than jack up the prices and rebate the promoter.

If there is a hotel rebate going to the promoter, then the promoter should list it as a separate line item as money going into the prize fund from hotel rebates rather than give the illusion of added money.
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With all due respect, Fran, I disagree with your thinking on this one.

When a promoter advertises added money, as long as that money is added they have met their commitment. But, they are also trying to recoup their expenses and maybe make a profit - that's the business side of it. If the hotel gives the promoter a little jelly, it has nothing to do w/the added money, nor would they be obligated to add that additional money to the pot because of it. If they want to add the extra money, and that is advertised as an incentive for the players and fans to stay there, that's a different story.

The main issue is the players have not been paid as of yet. It doesn't matter where the added money comes from, it was promised. I've known Tony for many years and I like him, but this is just a business issue. 96 players paid and played, so they lived up to their end of the bargain. It's Tony's turn.

Dave
 
Time for more popcorn..

Could this be the begining of a new book "Pool WarsII" or " Off the Rail Again" ?

Right after the Bucktooth chapter comes the Railbird Chapters.

Would this be a good time to mention Tony does sell a line of custom cues that some of the proceeds go to youth centers such as boys and girl clubs through out Ca.

You too could have 1 or more by calling Tony and requesting yours with the Rail Bird logo for a mear $450+ depending on wrap, woods and number of shafts needed cases and chalk are naturally extra.

Popcorn's done time to resume The Rail Bird Chronicles.
 
n10spool said:
Time for more popcorn..

Could this be the begining of a new book "Pool WarsII" or " Off the Rail Again" ?

Right after the Bucktooth chapter comes the Railbird Chapters.

Would this be a good time to mention Tony does sell a line of custom cues that some of the proceeds go to youth centers such as boys and girl clubs through out Ca.

You too could have 1 or more by calling Tony and requesting yours with the Rail Bird logo for a mear $450+ depending on wrap, woods and number of shafts needed cases and chalk are naturally extra.

Popcorn's done time to resume The Rail Bird Chronicles.
Click to expand...

I am in need of a photo of him and all the people he has helped through charity. We need the Tony character to take more shape.
 
FranCrimi said:
Chris, at first glance it doesn't seem like there's anything wrong with calling room rebate money added money, but think about this: Players are paying a certain amount to the hotel for their rooms. A percentage of what they pay gets rebated back to the promoter who has calculated that as part of the added money. So the promoter is getting credit for adding added money when it really is extra money paid by the players. I'd rather call it an enhanced entry fee rather than deceive everyone into thinking that the promoter is reaching into his or her pocket to add all this extra money.

What I have seen first hand what Tony Annigoni does is that he requests the hotels to just charge the players less for the rooms rather than jack up the prices and rebate the promoter.

If there is a hotel rebate going to the promoter, then the promoter should list it as a separate line item as money going into the prize fund from hotel rebates rather than give the illusion of added money.
Click to expand...

Well, we're getting off track but I am sometimes quite surprised that the tournament participants (not directed at you, Fran) have very little understanding of the costs of putting on even a medium sized event at a hotel, this is besides management overhead and advertising expense.

In the event planning industry, it is common practice to use rebates (or bundled services) to offset the event costs. Prize funds are just another cost of the event. The real income from most events comes from sponsorship, advertising partners, and exhibitor booth sales. Most events have a registration fee to cover costs as well. Room rebates usually are used to help offset the many miscellaneous charges of putting on an event - AV, room rental and set up, signage, security, shipping and many other misc. costs. Most people have not planned an event like this, but anybody who has paid for a wedding understands these charges very well.

In my view, it doesn't matter if a room rate is marked up as long as the participant rate they pay is a great deal. That's where professional negotiations are a must. A poor room rate will stand out badly and the small rebate included won't help much if deducted anyway.

Chris
 
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Island Drive said:
justnum said:
KT's pie in the sky revealed allot of good and the intent of players within our game but he also revealed who he was.
I just wish he would of used Allison Fisher to play Sigel instead, that could of made a difference. It did in tennis with Bobby Riggs and Billy Jean King.
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My understanding is that Allison was offered the match before Loree Jon and turned it down.

Mike
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12squared said:
With all due respect, Fran, I disagree with your thinking on this one.

When a promoter advertises added money, as long as that money is added they have met their commitment. But, they are also trying to recoup their expenses and maybe make a profit - that's the business side of it. If the hotel gives the promoter a little jelly, it has nothing to do w/the added money, nor would they be obligated to add that additional money to the pot because of it. If they want to add the extra money, and that is advertised as an incentive for the players and fans to stay there, that's a different story.

The main issue is the players have not been paid as of yet. It doesn't matter where the added money comes from, it was promised. I've known Tony for many years and I like him, but this is just a business issue. 96 players paid and played, so they lived up to their end of the bargain. It's Tony's turn.

Dave
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I am totally in agreement with Dave here. I have NEVER considered Added Money to be anything other than just that - ADDED MONEY!
It should never be based on any income stream, that is a separate issue. Otherwise it would be called "Projected Added Money".

I have done quite a few tournaments with added money of $20,000 to $50,000. That money was ALL there before a ball was ever hit. I used to deposit it in the same account at the casino cage that the entry fee money was going into (well in advance by the way). That made it very simple to make the pay outs later.

Yes, I have gotten room rebates, promoters fees, vendor booth sales and various other forms of income from events. But NONE of that figured into or was part of the added money. One thing is an expense and the other is income. That's about as simple as I can make it. Before I ever advertised a dime in added money, all the money was there first!

If someone is promoting an event with the added money based on potential income, that is what we used to call "doing it on the if-come." Not the best policy in my mind.
 
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I think Tony would have paid if he could. He owes an explanation in the meantime.

Chris
 
TATE said:
Well, we're getting off track but I am sometimes quite surprised that the tournament participants (not directed at you, Fran) have very little understanding of the costs of putting on even a medium sized event at a hotel, this is besides management overhead and advertising expense.

In the event planning industry, it is common practice to use rebates (or bundled services) to offset the event costs. Prize funds are just another cost of the event. The real income from most events comes from sponsorship, advertising partners, and exhibitor booth sales. Most events have a registration fee to cover costs as well. Room rebates usually are used to help offset the many miscellaneous charges of putting on an event - AV, room rental and set up, signage, security, shipping and many other misc. costs. Most people have not planned an event like this, but anybody who has paid for a wedding understands these charges very well.

In my view, it doesn't matter if a room rate is marked up as long as the participant rate they pay is a great deal. That's where professional negotiations are a must. A poor room rate will stand out badly and the small rebate included won't help much if deducted anyway.

Chris
Click to expand...

Chris, the obvious difference between room rebates and the other ways in which the promoter earns money to cover the event, is that room rebates come directly out of the pockets of the players.

I think the courteous and correct thing to do when a promoter is accepting room rebates is to disclose it ahead of time and offer the players the option of staying somewhere else.
 
FranCrimi said:
Chris, the obvious difference between room rebates and the other ways in which the promoter earns money to cover the event, is that room rebates come directly out of the pockets of the players.

I think the courteous and correct thing to do when a promoter is accepting room rebates is to disclose it ahead of time and offer the players the option of staying somewhere else.
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Players in most cases do have the option to stay wherever they like. The efforts made in the past to "force" players to stay in a host venue have not faired too well, at least the ones I am familiar with. The way to get people to stay in a host venue is to add value and convenience IMO. It's a hard situation to find a perfect solution to.

As for disclosing room rebates or any other details of a contract with a venue IMO it is a private matter. The promoters job is to put on the event and pay the money. How that gets done really is not a concern of anyone but the promoter as long as it gets done. Players will decide to attend an event based on it's merits,value and reputation of the promoter.
 
dabarbr said:
I've been reading this thread from it's beginning and have kept from posting on it in the hopes that Tony would get some word out.

I have been friends with Tony for over forty years and am hoping that there is a good reason for the delay. Let us know if Tony is willing to bring out some info on this. I'm hoping there is a logical explanation.

Good luck in your match. Looks like you might have something to win. lol
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I am playing Jeff Gregory, the winner of the tournament, not Tony.

Tony is also a long time friend and I will reserve judgement and like you, hope there is a logical explanation.
 
cabilliardclub said:
Sorry, I thought you were talking about playing Tony. Jeff will pay cash!!!!!!!!!!!
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I hope it turns out I get the cash. He and I have played many times and it goes back and forth.

If I win because Dave got me in stroke, I'll send him a jelly roll (I'll play golf again).
 
JCIN said:
Players in most cases do have the option to stay wherever they like. The efforts made in the past to "force" players to stay in a host venue have not faired too well, at least the ones I am familiar with. The way to get people to stay in a host venue is to add value and convenience IMO. It's a hard situation to find a perfect solution to.

As for disclosing room rebates or any other details of a contract with a venue IMO it is a private matter. The promoters job is to put on the event and pay the money. How that gets done really is not a concern of anyone but the promoter as long as it gets done. Players will decide to attend an event based on it's merits,value and reputation of the promoter.
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JCIN, I can only respond based on my own experience, of course, but my experience tells me that requiring players to stay at a host hotel is still very much in practice.

I think promoters go too far when they try to squeeze the last dollars out of the players. Every promoter has the option of kicking back the room rebate to the players. I have seen many threads here where people complain about how expensive it is to travel to events and that the prize money they get in return is not a fair enough return for them compared to what they have to lay out.
 
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