Archer's View on Diamond tables

atthecat said:
Don't know the exact angles. Not a tech geek. I'm a pool player that thinks the tables at the old Hollywood Billiards and many of the tables set up by Ernesto are the best playing tables. My opinion. His pocket angles on the 4 inch pockets are awesome. Don't know how anyone can talk badly about them, but you seem to.
Click to expand...

OH...so now you admit you don't know WHAT angles you're talking about....only that you can make balls on the tables that Ernesto worked on....but can't make balls on any OTHER tables....and you call yourself...a POOL PLAYER?...because you can make balls into 4" pockets....but MISS the really EASY 4 1/2" ProCut pockets...which are 1/2" BIGGER than what Ernesto tightens the pockets to?:rotflmao1:
 

Attachments

  • rsz_dscn3942.jpg
    rsz_dscn3942.jpg
    57.1 KB · Views: 332
Last edited:
only when things go wrong do you notice

i only really notice skids when they make me miss, on a gc the pockets are usually quite a bit more forgiving than on a diamond. could this make the "skids" more noticable? when a skid just makes me short on position, it doesn't bug me nearly as much.

out where i live it's dry as a bone, and any skids we get are usually due to bad equipment, dirty balls or dirty old cloth, the only good tables we have in town are 4 diamond bar boxes, which play waaayyyyy better than the nationals, or dufferins we have. that being said, does anyone feel like donating 16 diamond tables to my town?:thumbup:
 
atthecat said:
Don't know the exact angles. Not a tech geek. I'm a pool player that thinks the tables at the old Hollywood Billiards and many of the tables set up by Ernesto are the best playing tables. My opinion. His pocket angles on the 4 inch pockets are awesome. Don't know how anyone can talk badly about them, but you seem to.
Click to expand...

Had Ernesto kept them around 4 1/8 to 4 3/16 and legit sides ( the sides were way too tight ) , they would have been nicer. They were not Brunswick specs of course. Brunswick specs are messed-up I think b/c I've seen stock GcIII spit out balls too.
Everything evolves, I hope BCA and Diamond make the corner pockets just a little easier 4.5" opening. Imo they taper down too much.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Had Ernesto kept them around 4 1/8 to 4 3/16 and legit sides ( the sides were way too tight ) , they would have been nicer. They were not Brunswick specs of course. Brunswick specs are messed-up I think b/c I've seen stock GcIII spit out balls too.
Everything evolves, I hope BCA and Diamond make the corner pockets just a little easier 4.5" opening. Imo they taper down too much.
Click to expand...

Joey, the Diamonds taper less than the Gold Crowns do. If you put 1/8" facings on a Diamond with the same pocket openings as a GC5 Tournament Edition table, the GC pocket throat would be an 1/8" smaller than that of a Diamond, meaning the taper of a 142 degree pocket is more than that of a 141 degree pocket...which means less rejection from the corner pockets;)
 
realkingcobra said:
Joey, the Diamonds taper less than the Gold Crowns do. If you put 1/8" facings on a Diamond with the same pocket openings as a GC5 Tournament Edition table, the GC pocket throat would be an 1/8" smaller than that of a Diamond, meaning the taper of a 142 degree pocket is more than that of a 141 degree pocket...which means less rejection from the corner pockets;)
Click to expand...

The stock GC taper is whacked . :grin:
I was actually referring to the almost parallel pocket facings E came up with.
Had GC have good pocket openings/angles, there would have been no business in pocket modifications I think.
 
Last edited:
Mark Griffin said:
OK - I read the whole thread.

Several interesting points. BTW - any skid has nothing to do with the table - it is a cloth and ball relationship (obviously).

I watched the video. The missed shot was shot rather hard. The 2nd time was shot much softer. He DID make contact with the 11 ball on the missed shot. Bob Jewett says he thinks the ball might have skidded. At the speed he hit it I don't think it could have skidded. I agree that most skids occur on soft shots.

.....

I am not totally convinced that chalk at the contact point is the culprit - but it could be. I think the culprit here is that the excess chalk + a punchy stroke did not have the cue ball rolling properly and it reacted with the object ball. If JA had overcut the ball a touch, it still would have gone it. So it is a combination of hitting the ball too full also.



JMHO

Mark Griffin
Click to expand...

Good observations Mark.

After watching the video of the miss it looks like Johnny just put a horrible punch stroke on the ball. On the miss the cue tip is pointed way up in the air on the follow through. When he sets it up again he hits the same shot with a smooth stroke and the tip pointed downward to the table on the follow through and splits the pocket.
I am pretty sure if Johnny watched his stroke on the miss and the way he stroked it on the repeat of the shot he would agree he hit it badly.

Wayne
 
Stevie Wonder and skidding....

Ok, I am not going to read 267 posts beause I don't have to. Imagine you are an object ball, and you have no eyes so you are just like Stevie, except you are also mute which sucks because you are about to get slammed on your backside by the cueball. You are also deaf. Do you know what table you are on? Feel around.... like Helen Keller... you cannot feel the nameplate, rails, cabinet or pockets. All you can feel is thin cloth and whatever is underneath it. Unless Diamond tables have significantly more or less friction because of the finished slate texture, there should be no difference over other tables unless the cloth cannot be stretched as tight as on other tables. Where is Bob Jewett on this one?
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Neil, consider yourself lucky getting ignored by "shrimpy". He likes to troll and never has anything positive to say about anything. And its quite obvious to everyone that he said "anyone" could spot you the five, but then you called his bluff, and all of sudden he backtracks. So it appears that not "everyone" can you spot you the five, not EVEN him !! LMAO
For the record, I will give you the 5, but you would have to give me the 2 !!

PS: Guys, this is a sport. Playing conditions are not the same as in a sterile operating room. Heck, anyone ever see a bad bounce in baseball? Or missed field goal due to wind, or a bad bounce angle off the outfield wall? It happens, and will continue too. Even the major leagues do not "drag" the infield after every inning. Play the game, and let chips fall where they may. RJ
Click to expand...

Actually, I said the 5 out but you probably don't even know the difference. Do you know the difference between the 5 out and 5? Please let us know if you do without asking someone for help.

Oh wait, now I see why you got offended. It was the league comment about another old timer that got to ya. Sorry old RJ, put your glasses back on and read my posts again.

I might have exaggerated a little but I have zero doubt JA could spot Neil the world which is what I meant. If you took it different so be it.

If you've read my posts (which you haven't) I've stuck up for the pros a few times when know-it-all wannabe's like you try to slam them. If you want to be Neil's booty-buddy even though he's never said anything positive on here go ahead.

I'll never slam anyone for giving their opinion on here, but don't tell other people they are "wrong". Especially pros. How can anyone be so pompous and arrogant to think because they have had a couple of lessons and listen to all of the CTE instructors they have all the answers and the rest of us (including pros) are "wrong"?

This is what Neil originally said and one of many posts like it I had an objection to.

"Thanks for the chuckles this morning guys! One thing is apparent in this thread- too many of you are "star struck". Just because someone is real, real, good at what they do, does NOT mean that everything they say is to be taken as the gospel truth! While the pros are very, very, good at what they do, you would be surprised at how often what they THINK they know is wrong."
 
DogsPlayingPool said:
I read the post you linked and as you said, you did not do an extensive test. What you seemed to not incorporate into the test is whether the matter picked up by the balls (pocket dye or whatever) would attract more chalk dust, hair/fiber at the spot of the smudge. It is very reasonable that any dust clinging to the smudge could cause a skid rather than the smudge itself.
Click to expand...
That's a good point, although it would be much harder to directly test differential dust attraction as you can imagine. I suspect they can't be that much more likely to pick up dust/chalk than average, though, considering that I didn't see skids in my tests (now or since) using balls that weren't cleaned and had plenty of pocket marks.

I still think it's useful to know (and counter-intuitive) that the smudge marks don't affect friction/throw on regular shots, however much it looks like they should. Regardless, I'd still like to see Diamond find a way to stop them from happening.

Robert
 
JoeyInCali said:
The stock GC taper is whacked . :grin:
I was actually referring to the almost parallel pocket facings E came up with.
Had GC have good pocket openings/angles, there would have been no business in pocket modifications I think.
Click to expand...

Joey...if Brunswick would have made 5" pockets with parallel pocket angles, the only ones playing pool would be the crowd under 7...and over 65yrs old...and the 7yr olds would be running 10 packs before breakfast...while the 65yr olds would be running 5 packs before their noon bedtime...still complaining about not being able to keep up with the 7yr olds running racks:p how old are you again?:grin::grin:
 
RKB, believe it or not you don't have to post to every comment on this thread, these comments aren't directed towards you, thats what PMs are for. Make your own thread about how great everything you do is if you want everyone to know so bad(oh yeah,you already do that.) have a nice day.
 
tryhonesty07 said:
RKB, believe it or not you don't have to post to every comment on this thread, these comments aren't directed towards you, thats what PMs are for. Make your own thread about how great everything you do is if you want everyone to know so bad(oh yeah,you already do that.) have a nice day.
Click to expand...

You have your panties pulled up a little to tight...causing you problems...buy bigger sizes if you insist on wearing them...so they'll at least fit you buddy;)
 
Blackjack said:
Dennis, it must have been that damn static electricity. Few people understand or know of this phenomenon. Static electricity is transferred from the carpet to the cloth. It is made worse by the players walking on it, and ultimately effects the balls. Toss in those European players showing up and playing in wool sweaters, and you have a big problem on your hands. This is especially true on Diamond tables, which are highly conductive and not well grounded. Over the years, this has caused me to miss thousands of shots - shots that shoulda went.

:killingme:

The older I get, the more pride I take in my creativity for blaming everything but myself.

;)

If you're not dead on, a Diamond will exploit that or any other weakness quicker than any other table - and Diamonds don't discriminate. They care if your name is Efren, Corey, Earl, Shane, or Johnny - if you don't bear down on every shot, you'll pay for it.
Click to expand...


The above post was made tongue in cheek. I really thought the emoticons made that quite obvious. Those that know me, know that there is an unofficial contest to see who can come up with most outrageous excuses for missed shots - some of them are hilariously stupid, like the static electricity excuse. It's even more hilarious that some people took this post seriously.

:shrug:

I have an entire excuse routine based upon planetary conjunction and its effects on ball/cloth friction and its relationship with leather and plastic pockets. Its all bull$hit, but its free to anyone who feels that it may come in handy for them.

:)

Somewhere out there is a live stream match between Marlon Manalo and Corey Deuel where John DiToro and I debate whether or not the gravitational tilt of the earth - OR - blue chalk oil was to blame for Corey scratching on the break. Beware, that blue chalk oil is a b1tch.

:rotflmao1:

When you miss a shot, your reactionary statement should begin with the word "I". Not "this" or "that", or "that #!@%-ing table". Turning the excuses into an entertaining game helps keep that in perspective.

If you don't bear down on every shot, you'll pay for it. After watching the shot in question, I stand behind that statement. Johnny just missed.
 
peteypooldude said:
A question to people smarter than me.
Can static affect ball reaction ?
Click to expand...

Sure it can. Sort of. The question should be "Can static directly or indirectly affect the object ball path."

A change in static could change the amount of chalk that wants to stay on a cueball or the length of time (or number of shots, or length of table roll contact the cueball has with the cloth) that chalk wants to stay on the cueball.

Dr. George Onoda wrote a pretty convincing piece in Billiards Digest twenty years ago on this subject. I don't see anything contradicting what he wrote. That includes static, eating french fries, leather dye, humidity, ball surface composition,the Las Vegas desert, and cloths' overall ability to wipe off chalk marks. The last is probably why so many have complained about Simonis cloth and skidding. It's lower friction also doesn't wipe the chalk marks as readily.

There's a significant difference at my house when the humidty drops and static increases. Just watch the balls pickup and keep the chalk.

Page 13 of http://www.sfbilliards.com/onoda_all_txt.pdf . Anything that increases the time that chalk marks remain increases the percentages. Anything that decreases said time decreases the percentages. Again, nothing said on this thread contradicts this theory.

To the original post, it's much ado about nothing. JA if he said it could certainly be excused for exaggerating under the heat of a miss.

Fred <~~~ and Diamonds are the best
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top