Local pool hall asked me to run league and tourneys. Little help & Questions

greyghost

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Hey everyone the manager up at the local Fast Eddies was talking to me the other day and was asking if i was interested in playing in their APA league that they were trying to start........problem is they want inhouse and they don't have quite the people since their LO is making them have teams of 8...........whatever lol

I told her that there are many more league options than the APA and in house could be formed easily with or without a nationally sanctioned league system.

Anyways the only type of league I'd play in is one that actually uses the rules of pool and doesn't make up their own.

B/c of that the only two nationally sanctioned leagues I'm interested in operating under their flag is the BCAPL and USAPL..........

For those that have been part of these two orgainizations as players or as operators can you guys or ladies give me a little info as to what the differences are b/t the two? I know that they are both BCA affiliated along with the CSI stuff. Is there any real diff?

I saw mostly stuff on 8 ball on the USAPL, do they have 9 ball like BCA?

I saw that with BCAPL and USAPL that the operator has a more range with what he can do as per running the format of the local territory this is one thing I very much like. I've always had problems with some leagues as many of you know on here.....I won't play in much stuff b/c I don't believe they do right in the image I beleive should be presented. That said I believe if things are to be done right or you want to change something you got to do it your dam self.......so the opportunity has been offered to me........

I will also be running tournamnets and will be looking to start 8 and 9 ball and a onepocket tournament (onehole probably monthly to start) and multi night 3ball (i think 3 ball is the nuts when done right b/c of that fire ACE POT) If i can find enough interested I may do a straight pool and onepocket ladder also which could also become an extra inhouse "league" paying out a prize at the end of the "session"

THANKS TO ALL FOR THE HELP AND ADVICE YOU GIVE ME

there are two kinds of people........doers and talkers......

Cheers to the new years..........

lets get to doing,
-Keebie Fleniken II "Grey Ghost"
 
greyghost said:
Hey everyone the manager up at the local Fast Eddies was talking to me the other day and was asking if i was interested in playing in their APA league that they were trying to start........problem is they want inhouse and they don't have quite the people since their LO is making them have teams of 8...........whatever lol

I told her that there are many more league options than the APA and in house could be formed easily with or without a nationally sanctioned league system.

Anyways the only type of league I'd play in is one that actually uses the rules of pool and doesn't make up their own.

B/c of that the only two nationally sanctioned leagues I'm interested in operating under their flag is the BCAPL and USAPL..........

For those that have been part of these two orgainizations as players or as operators can you guys or ladies give me a little info as to what the differences are b/t the two? I know that they are both BCA affiliated along with the CSI stuff. Is there any real diff?

I saw mostly stuff on 8 ball on the USAPL, do they have 9 ball like BCA?

I saw that with BCAPL and USAPL that the operator has a more range with what he can do as per running the format of the local territory this is one thing I very much like. I've always had problems with some leagues as many of you know on here.....I won't play in much stuff b/c I don't believe they do right in the image I beleive should be presented. That said I believe if things are to be done right or you want to change something you got to do it your dam self.......so the opportunity has been offered to me........

I will also be running tournamnets and will be looking to start 8 and 9 ball and a onepocket tournament (onehole probably monthly to start) and multi night 3ball (i think 3 ball is the nuts when done right b/c of that fire ACE POT) If i can find enough interested I may do a straight pool and onepocket ladder also which could also become an extra inhouse "league" paying out a prize at the end of the "session"

THANKS TO ALL FOR THE HELP AND ADVICE YOU GIVE ME

there are two kinds of people........doers and talkers......

Cheers to the new years..........

lets get to doing,
-Keebie Fleniken II "Grey Ghost"
Click to expand...

Just some thoughts from a longtime league player.

For leagues to draw in new players, and thus new business, a handicap league is the best way to go. Having played in the BCAPL style league for a number of years I found that the same team won year session after session (mainly my team) and eventually the league folded. Although I don't know much about it, my understanding is that the USAPL is a handicap league and I would go with that format. You might also want to re-think the APA decision as in most areas, having an APA league is a good thing for the room owner (as long as the APA LO does a good job)

Once you get the USAPL and or APA off the ground, then you can open up another, non handicap league, on another night.

If your purpose is to help bring business into the room, then the handicap leagues are a neccessity as they will have the incentive to have players bring out other friends to play in the leagues. New players will not do well in a straight BCAPL format. Just my experience.

In short, anything that you are doing to help grow the game and help the success of a room is good in my books regardless of how you go about it.


Leagueguy
 
LeagueGuy said:
Just some thoughts from a longtime league player.

For leagues to draw in new players, and thus new business, a handicap league is the best way to go. Having played in the BCAPL style league for a number of years I found that the same team won year session after session (mainly my team) and eventually the league folded. Although I don't know much about it, my understanding is that the USAPL is a handicap league and I would go with that format. You might also want to re-think the APA decision as in most areas, having an APA league is a good thing for the room owner (as long as the APA LO does a good job)

Once you get the USAPL and or APA off the ground, then you can open up another, non handicap league, on another night.

If your purpose is to help bring business into the room, then the handicap leagues are a neccessity as they will have the incentive to have players bring out other friends to play in the leagues. New players will not do well in a straight BCAPL format. Just my experience.

In short, anything that you are doing to help grow the game and help the success of a room is good in my books regardless of how you go about it.


Leagueguy
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice......I did find that a nice fact from the USAPL website about how in 2.4million matches 70% went hill/hill if this is true then their claims on sandbag protection and even game, it must be a good system.

I also like the idea of multi leagues.....i def could do a USAPL and a BCAPL if there were those interested in a 9 ball format.

I also like the fact that the USAPL is a supporter of the PRO tour.........

I told them I want to have the place open during the day on weekends for a junior league or some kind of program for the youngsters......and so far its looking like I'll be OK'd to do so.............

thats really my main reason as many of you know........the kids I want to get the kids involved. Already this past 6 months I've introduced about a dozen kids from 3 to 12 to the game and every single one of them has LOVE LOVE LOVED IT im happy to say (tho not surprised at all).

People used to always ask me why they play so good up in the midwest in places like tulsa and OKC and up in Kansas etc...........

I used to joke and say "they breed them......there breeding program is second to none" :grin::p;)

but its really true there is more game history and respect for it there so people get introduced at a younger age, are taught more proper things more often than not along with good places to play and events to play in.

Be great to start one here too :)

build a horse,
-Grey Ghost-
 
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greyghost said:
Thanks for the advice......I did find that a nice fact from the USAPL website about how in 2.4million matches 70% went hill/hill if this is true then their claims on sandbag protection and even game, it must be a good system.

I also like the idea of multi leagues.....i def could do a USAPL and a BCAPL if there were those interested in a 9 ball format.

I also like the fact that the USAPL is a supporter of the PRO tour.........

I told them I want to have the place open during the day on weekends for a junior league or some kind of program for the youngsters......and so far its looking like I'll be OK'd to do so.............

thats really my main reason as many of you know........the kids I want to get the kids involved. Already this past 6 months I've introduced about a dozen kids from 3 to 12 to the game and every single one of them has LOVE LOVE LOVED IT im happy to say (tho not surprised at all).

People used to always ask me why they play so good up in the midwest in places like tulsa and OKC and up in Kansas etc...........

I used to joke and say "they breed them......there breeding program is second to none" :grin::p;)

but its really true there is more game history and respect for it there so people get introduced at a younger age, are taught more proper things more often than not along with good places to play and events to play in.

Be great to start one here too :)

build a horse,
-Grey Ghost-
Click to expand...

The Junior program is a great idea. I have seen one run very successfuly.

Everyother weekend on a Sunday afternoon @ 1:00 45 minutes of lessons followed by a round robin scotch doubles tournament (parents and kids). After a few weeks when the kids get familiar with the others who are there, then you can mix it up and have some of the weaker kids play as a team with some of the stronger parents. Of course, unlimited coaching is availalable in the tournament as the purpose is for fun.

You will find it amazing how many parents want to play with their kids but do not have the patience to teach them themselves at home.

The room gave gift certificates and small prizes for the top 3 teams and the kids loved it. There were sometimes 20 or more juniors in the room when it was runing strong. They would run singles tournaments for kids as well on occassion. The program ran for about 36 months before the level of particpation dropped off to where it could not keep going. This was a few years ago and we now have a number of those kids who are die hard league players and play once or twice a week.

Congrats to you for making the kids the reason you want to do this.

Leagueguy.
 
thanks again......

for the extra tid bit.......

for the rest of you.........your input is seriously LACKING and The Greyone is not pleased with this......

90 something views and only leagueguy has something to say?

Where are all my people at?

NEIL, JAM, SCOTT, COCO, PJ, Blackjack, cajunfats, Fatboy, Jay, Houmatroy,
Manwon, Ratta, S&K, Sliderule, Steve, Randy, DCP..................

come with the comments and ideas people we got a new project to get off the ground.........

If you look then say something........don't lurk today.

-Grey Ghost-
 
greyghost said:
for the extra tid bit.......

for the rest of you.........your input is seriously LACKING and The Greyone is not pleased with this......

90 something views and only leagueguy has something to say?

Where are all my people at?

NEIL, JAM, SCOTT, COCO, PJ, Blackjack, cajunfats, Fatboy, Jay, Houmatroy,
Manwon, Ratta, S&K, Sliderule, Steve, Randy, DCP..................

come with the comments and ideas people we got a new project to get off the ground.........

If you look then say something........don't lurk today.

-Grey Ghost-
Click to expand...

Keebie,
I know very little about the various league systems, but if you are interested in a 14.1 league, visit www.14and1.com

As always, if you need anything in the way of instructional material, books, feel free to get with me and I'll hook you up. I'll send you some books and DVD's that you can add to your prize package.
 
greyghost said:
for the extra tid bit.......

for the rest of you.........your input is seriously LACKING and The Greyone is not pleased with this......

90 something views and only leagueguy has something to say?

Where are all my people at?

NEIL, JAM, SCOTT, COCO, PJ, Blackjack, cajunfats, Fatboy, Jay, Houmatroy,
Manwon, Ratta, S&K, Sliderule, Steve, Randy, DCP..................

come with the comments and ideas people we got a new project to get off the ground.........

If you look then say something........don't lurk today.

-Grey Ghost-
Click to expand...

You might also consider TAP League for 8 and 9 ball. BCA/World Standardized rules for the most part. 25 SL max for handicap for 5 person team. Jump cues allowed. In 9 ball I believe it's a race to your handicap and in 8 ball the race is 1 minus your handicap (for SL 7's it's a bit different).

Having played in both the BCAPL and TAP I like the longer races in TAP as opposed to one game against each player on the other team.

I think alot depends on what the players want. Something you might do is go around to the local pool rooms/halls/ bars and ask the people what they want most in a league... make some notes or just print out a spread sheet with a cell for each response and run the frequencies.

that might give you an idea of what your potential players would want the most.

I'd like to see more ladder leagues but those are few and far between where I'm located.
 
Blackjack said:
Keebie,
I know very little about the various league systems, but if you are interested in a 14.1 league, visit www.14and1.com

As always, if you need anything in the way of instructional material, books, feel free to get with me and I'll hook you up. I'll send you some books and DVD's that you can add to your prize package.
Click to expand...

thanks I'm definately interested in a ladder style 14.1 league.....or maybe have the juniors play it maybe.......that would be cool. Its a very simple game an I think youngsters would understand it better than say 8 ball.

Thanks for the offer my friend when the time comes I shall come a callin'

best wishes,
Keebie
 
Hey Keebs....pm Meezer Girl....she runs 4 leagues one of which is on a Naval Base in Cali and has been at it for a number of years now...great gal...tell her one of her "classmates" sent ya....

Jackson;)
 
jackson said:
Hey Keebs....pm Meezer Girl....she runs 4 leagues one of which is on a Naval Base in Cali and has been at it for a number of years now...great gal...tell her one of her "classmates" sent ya....

Jackson;)
Click to expand...

sure thing thanks...:wink:
 
Since you put it that way !

greyghost said:
for the extra tid bit.......

for the rest of you.........your input is seriously LACKING and The Greyone is not pleased with this......

90 something views and only leagueguy has something to say?

Where are all my people at?

NEIL, JAM, SCOTT, COCO, PJ, Blackjack, cajunfats, Fatboy, Jay, Houmatroy,
Manwon, Ratta, S&K, Sliderule, Steve, Randy, DCP..................

come with the comments and ideas people we got a new project to get off the ground.........

If you look then say something........don't lurk today.

-Grey Ghost-
Click to expand...

I think you ought to start a league & be the only player in it..Then you could really be in a league all of your own ! :thumbup:...what's up buddy...hope the new years is treating you good !
 
greyghost said:
Anyways the only type of league I'd play in is one that actually uses the rules of pool and doesn't make up their own.

B/c of that the only two nationally sanctioned leagues I'm interested in operating under their flag is the BCAPL and USAPL..........

For those that have been part of these two orgainizations as players or as operators can you guys or ladies give me a little info as to what the differences are b/t the two? I know that they are both BCA affiliated along with the CSI stuff. Is there any real diff?

I saw mostly stuff on 8 ball on the USAPL, do they have 9 ball like BCA?

I saw that with BCAPL and USAPL that the operator has a more range with what he can do as per running the format of the local territory this is one thing I very much like. I've always had problems with some leagues as many of you know on here.....I won't play in much stuff b/c I don't believe they do right in the image I beleive should be presented. That said I believe if things are to be done right or you want to change something you got to do it your dam self.......so the opportunity has been offered to me........

I will also be running tournamnets and will be looking to start 8 and 9 ball and a onepocket tournament (onehole probably monthly to start) and multi night 3ball (i think 3 ball is the nuts when done right b/c of that fire ACE POT) If i can find enough interested I may do a straight pool and onepocket ladder also which could also become an extra inhouse "league" paying out a prize at the end of the "session"

THANKS TO ALL FOR THE HELP AND ADVICE YOU GIVE ME

there are two kinds of people........doers and talkers......

Cheers to the new years..........

lets get to doing,
-Keebie Fleniken II "Grey Ghost"
Click to expand...
I hear what you have said and understand fully your rationale for choosing the BCAPL and USAPL for your establishment. They use the BCAPL Official Rules which players agree is the best defined and best rules to play.

I have played in both BCAPL and USAPL, so I will gladly relay some of the details.

The USAPL utilizes a 40-125 rating system that is highly effective and yet still simple. Each player plays multiple games against an opponent racing to their full rating based on 14 points for each game win and 1 point for each ball pocketed for the opponent. Misses are also recorded, providing much useful detail about a player’s performance without all of the score keeping headaches that other rated systems have (many your already aware of). With the USAPL you get the benefit of just recording the balls left on the table, and just missed shots, which players prefer. The USAPL 40-125 rating system really forces players of all levels to play their best game or else suffer the consequences. In other systems when a 7 plays a lower player like a 2, they know that it will take at least 4 or 5 turns or more before that 2 will have a chance to win a game. So the outcome of the match is basically pre-determined before the match begins. With the USAPL system, that 125 has to play strong all the way through, because it’s possible for a 40 rated player to win his match without winning a game, provided that player is able to pocket enough balls. So the higher rated player not only has to win games, but also has to keep the opponent’s ball count down each game. Strong players, who have played in all of the various leagues, consistently endorse the USAPL system for forcing them to play their best. It’s not about just winning, but the Margin of Victory is also rewarded and can impact whether your team wins that night or wins for the season. These are just a few of the factors that set the USAPL apart from other leagues and eliminate the sandbagging that the others so prevalently have.

A USAPL team consists of 5 or more players per team but has some flexibility. For example 3 player teams can be arranged for startup divisions. Each of the 5 matches is a full race consisting of multiple games vs. the opponent. Winning the first 3 matches does not guarantee victory since the Margin of Victory is factored in, therefore all 5 matches must be played, and sluffing off can easily result in team defeat!
1 additional HUGE BONUS of the USAPL is that teams that exceed the team limit are not forced to be broken up and are not denied the ability to play. There is no rigidly enforced 23 or 25 team limit. Teams over the team limit may play as normal. The USAPL system applies penalty points for exceeding the team limit. If a team is too far over the team limit, then eventually those penalty points will overwhelm any chance of them winning.
There is a National USAPL Tournament which concludes the day before the highly regarded BCAPL National 8 Ball Championships! Teams can earn their way to play in the National USAPL Tournament, while teams that don’t win the special entries are still able to pay their own way to attend and compete. This is an excellent perk considering that other national leagues often only qualify about 2% of their teams for their National Tournament. Many teams that have paid their dues every week for 1 or more seasons throughout the whole year, don’t like being flat out denied having the option to compete in the big National tournament which they’ve contributed their money towards. It’s nice for the teams to have the ability to decide for themselves. Living close to Las Vegas, I know that I’ve been there for other leagues and would’ve liked to have played in the big Team event, but wasn’t able to compete because my team didn’t qualify that year. If only I could’ve at least had the option.
For these reasons and many more, more and more people are very happy with the USA Pool League leading to its growth throughout the Nation.

While the BCAPL is historically well known and well regarded throughout country for its consistent high quality, setting the standard for pool leagues. The BCAPL provides the League Operators many flexible options for how to conduct their league. The BCA Pool League Operator is able to setup a league tailored to what will work best for the players in their specific area (8 ball, 9 ball, Handicapped, non-Handicapped, 5 player, 3 player, singles, scotch doubles, …). The BCAPL League Operator gets all of the benefits and flexibility of a local league along with having all of the benefit and support from sanctioning with the National BCA Pool League. It’s an excellent win for the players, the BCAPL LO, and for the pool room hosting the league. That’s why many pool room owners choose to start up their own BCA Pool League in their establishment. They have BCAPL State tournaments and the BCAPL National 8 Ball Championships which is known as “The Greatest Pool Tournament in the World” and has amateur player events alongside pro events for all to enjoy and partake at their leisure.
 
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houmatroy said:
I think you ought to start a league & be the only player in it..Then you could really be in a league all of your own ! :thumbup:...what's up buddy...hope the new years is treating you good !
Click to expand...

i thought that already happened? lol

ahh the new year.....its going and thats all that matters, high's and lows brother high's and low's.

But the sweet ain't as sweet without the sour now ain't it.;)

hope the hunting been good brother

take care,
-Grey Ghost-
 
greyghost said:
i thought that already happened? lol

ahh the new year.....its going and thats all that matters, high's and lows brother high's and low's.

But the sweet ain't as sweet without the sour now ain't it.;)

hope the hunting been good brother

take care,
-Grey Ghost-
Click to expand...

Hunting has been going real good..The rut is in full swing...Bucks running da hell out da does...Killed 5 so far including 1 real nice 9 point that i'm putting on the wall...If you come down for the big cuesport tourney next month we can have a few drinks & i'll send you back with some deer meat..take care u 2 !
 
Leagues

TCIndepMo
"I also like the fact that the USAPL is a supporter of the PRO tour........."

What "PRO tour"?

----------------------------------------------------------------

Nothing happens overnight.
USAPL (a division of CSI) has been up and running for awhile. We have divisions all over the country.

The 'pro pot' factor now has $6,808 dollars in it (as of 1-3-2011).
Granted this is not a lot of money - but it is a start.
We have new leagues forming all the time and when we get some more activity, we will start posting it on our site.

The ocncept is that if we get 10,000 members playing every week, we will have $5,000 per week to add to help develope a pro tour and events. Once we hit a certain level and the pros start seeing the results - and they endorse what we are doing - we should get more growth which will put more money in to the pro pot fund.

This is a little more difficult than most understand. We are not a franchise - but licensing agreements cost money and must be properly done. All of this takes time.

An importnat thing to know: The money will not disappear. This is a real business model that does function. We have put our name on it!

If anyone wants some info, please contact us at 702-719-7665. mark Estes is the guy to ask for on USAPL issues.

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - UASAPL
 
I was just wondering how many teams the previouse LO had signed up for the league requiring 8 man teams? Nevermind, it doesnt matter anyways.

IMHO, I think that you need to talk to the local players and see what they want. Would you get more players if you just didnt go with a national organization or are the players in your area loyal to a specific league system.

The leagues in my area are not sactioned by anyone and that is the way the players like it because they dont want to pay for something they know they are not going to participate in. Also, it is easy to get new players because there is not a huge fee to become a member of the league.

The league is ran like this, it is a traveling 8 ball bar league but you format it to an in house league.

4 player teams, $40 initial sponsor fee paid by the bar, $10 fee from each player on the first week of play($5 to LO, $5 to league prize fund), after the first week its only $5 per player. There is a penalty of $.25 for all scratches and fouls that is also collected each week.

All money collected minus a one time $5 LO fees is paid out at an end of the year tournament and with awards that the team captains decide upon in a meeting prior to the league starting. For instance, we buy jackets for the no.1 team at the end of the year, but if the team already won jackets within the last three years then we just have them embroided. Same thing with plaques for the sponsors.

Nightly play is setup whith two teams playing, each player plays everybody once for a total of 4 games per player adding up to a total of 16 games. Matches usually last about 2.5 hours or longer on one table. It is a simple win or loose checked on a score sheet, no handicapping or counting shots. The LO compiles up the team and individual winning percentage and sends it out weekly.

After the final week in League play we have an end of the season tournament for all the money.

This tournament is set up by dividing all the league players into two seperate groups by there individual average (top 50%, and bottom 50%). The team captains get to make changes if someone is sandbagging and move them to the top group. Anyways, its a scotch doubles tournament that a person from the top group draws a random person from the bottom group. Its all random, so it makes the teams pretty fair and you are allowed to coach during the match which some of the bottom %50 really enjoy.

There is no entry fee for the tournament, and everyone that shows up gets paid just for showing up. I think last year it was like $50 a person to show up and the winners got like $400 a person. But that will all be determined by the captains at the beginning of the year.

Some things I like about this,
The teams are not stacked because there really is no team prize worth stacking a team for, other than a jacket.
The lower players have the same chance as the top players in winning the same amount of money.
Its easy to get more people involved since there is no major fee for joining.
The weekly fee's are managed by the team captains on how they are being distributed at the end of the year, before the league ever starts.

Oh yeah, the LO is not an owner of the league, he/she is voted on at the end of the year tournament by the players. So if a LO did a bad job, they are gone for the next year, but luckily we have had a good one for the past 10 years or so and it hasnt even come up for discussion other than giving him more than increasing it to $10 a person.


Now I am not knocking any national organization, they all have established league systems that you can use and there are plus and minuses to both, I just wanted to give you an example of what we do.
 
Great New Handicapped League

I would strongly recommend Pool300. It is a new league, new game. BCA sanctioned 10 ball scored like bowling with a great handicap system. www.pool300.com I would love to help get it up and going for you.
 
My input:

I used to play on a local Skagit-Reno 9 Ball league. It was a traveling league in that many of the local area taverns/bars were involved. The goal at the end was to win all expenses paid trips to the Reno 9 Ball Open.

When the Sands discontinued the Open, the league needed to switch gears a bit. So, we joined the BCAPL. Each team consists of 4 players, with match play being a round robin of two games each for a total of 8 games per player/32 total for the match. Matches typically last about 1.5 hours...2 hours on the outside...goes pretty quickly running two tables at once.

Initial buy-in is the cost of the BCAPL card. Thereafter, it is $4 per player per night of play, and $0.25 per foul/scratch.

While team stats are recorded (games won = points) the individual player's stats are recorded as well...since play-offs are an individual as opposed to a team event. Play-offs have been split into a men's and women's side, with round robin format...typically with the men playing at one site and the women another.

Traditionally, top 4 women place in even money and I believe it is the top 6 men also place in even money.

Lisa
 
I would give you the same advice that Chris Rock gives to anyone who calls him and says they are on MLK Boulevard

" RUN!!,,,,, RUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!"
 
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