Bca vs Apa

[Scott Lee]

ridinda9...Nope...not gonna jump on APA Operator at all, because he knows the score, and basically said the same thing I did. You, on the other hand, said things that you obviously have no knowledge of, whether you had 30 posts or 30,000. That's why you got jumped on...not for the small number of posts (my apoligies for that comment). Hopefully you learned something from what I posted to you...if not...oh well.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

first , I hope that Scott doesn't jump you for only having 73 posts.
wecome!
Glad to see that even the other APA operators realize that local operators
make or break the players experience.
May you rule with the wisdom & fairness of a Solomon.

 

[Foolio]

Are you sure you'd recognize sandbagging if you actually saw it? As a novice player (APA 4 and only 3 yrs playing) it can be difficult to tell if someone is sandbagging.

Whoa now you don't even know the guy and you're calling him a novice player? You are true it is difficult to actually know if someone is sandbagging due to many reasons. But I don't agree that being a four and playing for three yrs in novice. I'm a four in eight ball, but I'm an underrated four who consistently beats sixes and can beat sevens. I wouldn't like someone to call me novice. I've been playing for two years and am addicted. It's a beautiful game. I'm not going to run racks on you but believe that I know what I am doing.

As for bca vs apa, I can't say anything about bca although i ve heard that it is for serious player. Four months after I began playing pool I wanted to join a league so I looked at both but in my area there was no bca close by. I'm happy with it I don't complain. I like the people and LOs of my area, I've met an enormous amount people and made good friends. The only people who don't really like are the sevens eights and nines that complain about underrated players. I learned a lot though from people I've met so i m happy I joined. Hopefully when I reach the next level, a bca league will forn near me and I will give it a shot.

 

[DunnM1]

APA, BCA and then VNEA

I have played in all three leagues, VNEA, APA and BCA and I have also made it to Las Vegas for all three championships. They all have some sort of pro's and con's in each. APA: 1. APA pays the most in Vegas $25,000 for the team that wins. They do DQ around 5-8 teams each year for sandbagging. 2. The APA gives you another two chances to go to Vegas for singles and pays around $10,000 - $15,000 in cash and prices for first. And for the most part you play against the same type of skill level. 3. There is that 23 rule for the APA team event. BCA: We can play dual sanaction (BCA/VNEA) on the same night. Went to Vegas last year and in my opion one of the worst ran national tournaments that I have seen. Seem to me and others they were more interested in getting the second chance and mini tournaments running than they were in playing the main event. Will go to BCA in 2011 even through I'm interested in seeing VNEA at Balley's. The Riv is not what it used to be. The BCA and the VNEA says that they are there for the players. And I do see Mark helping the Pro's and that is all good. But starting this Advance Division has me really turned off! Its getting to the point that if you win the whole thing, you don't even break even with the money you spend. BCA and the VNEA you get alot of crying, regarding other teams being to good. Hence the other Divisions. I can not wait to see these divisions in the pro ranks. Open, Advanced, Masters and then Grand Masters. These divisons would work in the BCA and or VNEA if done correctly. But once, you are moved up you should NOT be allowed back down. A higer division person should not be allowed to play in the lower divisions, at all. The higher the division the better the pay day. For example, if the Open pays out lets say 30,000 total for the event. The Advance Division should pay more than that even if it has less teams. The Masters Division should pay more than the Advanced Division and the Grand Masters Division should have the most money in it.

And I do believe that the two individuals that started the APA played pro and I think that they all look at azbilliards on a weekly basis.

I do believe that they all pay to many spots.

If I had to rank them it would be APA -1, BCA-2, and VNEA-3.

My thoughts...... you will either agree or disagree. That is the best part in living in this great country.

 

[sunnyday]

Sunny...Reread my post. I spoke of Terry Bell/Texas Terry, and Larry Hubbart/The Iceman. I never even mentioned Renee, who does not even play pool. You do not know your history if you think Terry Bell was a shortstop. Ask around a little. I think you'll find that back in the day, Terry was a STRONG pro. Ask Sigel if Hubbart could play...since he taught Mike, and took him on the road!

You do realize that I am a HUGE supporter of Mark and everything he does, don't you?

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Scott,

Your reply was confusing (to me), because you quoted this post - 'Terry , Larry , & Renee are nowhere to be seen. Because they don't care about your opinion - they're bigger than that.' And followed with your answer that they were professional pool players. If you just said, Terry and Larry, I would had left out Renee in my reply altogether. No biggie.

I have no disrespect to their playing ability. I have heard of Larry the Iceman, and I think there was a huge gap of playing ability/ skill levels between Larry and Terry.

I never said you were wrong, just stated my opinion.

And it's great for you to point out that you're a HUGE supporter of Mark. That really doesn't influence my opinion, LOL. I have my own voice and if it gets me in hot water, so be it.

No hard feelings.

S.

 

[vagabond]

Scott,

I would had left out Renee in my reply altogether. No biggie

S.

I am not at all interested in politics but I will say that Renee should not be left out.She reminds of the country music`s super star hotty Reba McIntire

 

[Ghosst]

Personally, I think BCA and APA are apples & oranges. Yes, they're both leagues, and yes, anyone can play in either. But as far as the players and their motivations themselves go; there is a world of difference.

Sometimes when people are too close to something they can't see the bigger picture, so let's diffuse this a little by using a simile.

Your company (depending on its' size obviously) probably has a softball team. When you go to the games, it's to unwind from the day and have some fun. Sure within the city, county, region, or state there may be some bigger tournaments and one company might do better than the others, but for "most" of the players it's just for fun.

Within those games, there are probably a bigger percentage of people who swear they could play better for bigger stakes. There are more arguments, and the overall play is far less professional than what you see on television on a Saturday afternoon. That obviously does not state there are no truly gifted players within the softball league, or that the whole thing is a mess. At the local game level it might be mismanaged but that's something else all together.

Now when some of these players start to show some promise, they might get the chance to play on the hometown team. Here play might still be a little unorganized and there's still a lack of professionalism compared to the professionals. But it's getting better.

If a player moves past the hometown, they might get lucky and play for their state in the minors. Now you start to see less woofing and more playing. And hey, if they stick around long enough, or play so well they get noticed, it's time to be the one on the TV on Saturday, not yelling at the TV, drinking beer, and telling people how you would have done it.

Pool leagues remind me of this little scenario. The APA is the corporate level. It doesn't mean it's terrible or that there are no good players in it. But everyone plays here so you see lots of intimidation, lots of trouble makers, and between then and now, some people with talent. The handicapping is good for new players, although it can be frustrating for those of us at higher ranks if we have an off-night.

BCA is more the minor-leagues to me. Here there's a certain expectation of professionalism, and things are run a little differently. Sure, there are always exceptions (Earl snapping his cue onto the floor, Archer breaking his stick across his back ...) but for the most part this is something an average can come out to watch and enjoy even if from the sidelines.

And yes, finally, we have the professional level beyond that. People who play for a living. They don't come on TV wearing white T-shirts with BBQ stains on them, saying, "hey, get comfy in that chair, you'll be in it for a while."

As for numbers - well, how many corporate ball players are there in America? Do we think maybe more than the number of minor-league players?

And lastly (because yes, I am long-winded) no matter how badly you might think the profits are mismanaged in the APA remember this - BP made 58B in profits over the last 3 years. They spent 20M over those 3 years researching ways to prevent accidents. They spent 0 dollars finding better ways to clean up in case something did happen. Now that is poor management. The APA might not be professional pool, but then again, neither is Earl's Towing Thursday night.

Oh yes ... I forgot to make a stance - I would rather play BCA if it was available because pool isn't an escape for me, it's why I go to work.

 

[SKJoss72]

Have done both leagues for several years and sorry to say they both have sandbagging, now there are a couple of different BCA leagues, one is very similiar to the APA, but with some more favorable rules, ( 25 rule instead of 23, open after the break, no any pocket goes rule, etc) but

I can speak of the PHILA bcapl league because I used to run a team out of chester co. which would be in the same league as the phila teams,

this division is run by a guy named Joe ferris, and without any fear of retribution I can say for a fact that he plays games with handicaps and plays favoritism for pet teams, mainly out of the thorndale area. I will be glad to discuss this with you in more detail. if you'd wish.

I still prefer the BCA over the APA but I play on them to improve my game by having the challenge of different skill oponents. not to go to vegas and expect anything from the LO except a good screwing.....

 

[C. Carl McConnell]

The BCAPL and Mark Griffin & Bill Stork are two guys that can't obey their own published rules as stated on their web-site. When this is brought to their attention they de-sanction the offending player as in my case but be that as it may check out this web-site www.juandefucapoolleague.com for compliance with the sanctioning rules for number of players and teams stated on the BCAPL web-site. If that is not enough go back to their web-site www.juandefucapoolleague.com check "click here" then down the page to rule 7. That's right it's call-pocket 9-Ball and there no such game in the BCA Rule Book. Now goto the BCAPL web-page and click on "News" and go down the page to "BCAPL Announces New Rule Book" now read the statement that Bill Stork has written in his third sentence about all Rules Being Obeyed and in saying all he leaves nothing to change then look at the second sentence of the second paragraph where the CEO Mark Griffin states that this applies to local, state , regional or national events, what is a local event if not league play? Where do they get off Sanctioning a league that is undersized, playing a game thats not in the BCAPL player Handbook and then allowing the League Operator to request and enjoy a de-sanctioning proceedure only on the league operators word when I have witnesses that the accusation in question never took place. All this without trial of my pears or any arguement. If I were you I Would STAY AWAY!
C. Carl McConnell

Hey guys I have been playing billiards for 3 years now and have a strong love for the game. I have been playing in the APA for the last 2 years and I am a skill level 4 but come to learn that i dont like the sandbaging that goes on and the confration that come with playing in the bar. So i am thinking about joining the BCAPL any input would be great.

Thanks Shooters

 

[ugotaction]

there is only one True league....BCA!

 

[tenballjoe]

That is definetly true.......BCA and CSI are the best established league and Professional organizations for American pool. BCAPL has something to do with every player from beginer , intermediate , advanced , and profesionnal and being that they are real pool players they actually care about and have a passion for the game!

One of the main reasons why you should play BCAPL is that we (the staff of BCAPL) actually are all pool players.

We read the AZ Forums and we will make comments.

We are invovled in the whole industry - from the players on up.

We add many thousands of dollars to state, local, regional, and national events.

We think we have the best program out there - I am sure others feel the same about their product also - but we offer more options to more players.

And how often do you get a response from the CEO in under an hour?!?!?!?

Seriously, if you have any comments or suggestions, please contact our office 702-719-7665. Thanks

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI
BCAPL
USAPL

 

[FLICKit]

Wow! You are way off based on this one!

... this applies to local, state , regional or national events, what is a local event if not league play? C. Carl McConnell

For starters, you ask a question and then answer it wrongly. I wouldn't be surprised if you now defend your own wrong answer in the near future.

That is one of the nice advantages of the BCA Pool League is that local league play is flexible to advance the wishes of the players in a particular area. Have you ever said, "I wish that a league would do..." or "I wish a pool league would be more like..." because it would be great for pool? Well, with the BCA Pool League your wish very often may come true.

But, for State, Regional, and National Events the BCA Pool League provides a precise set of rules which are provided in the BCAPL rule book. These rules are so highly regarded and widely favored by the pool players that they are often implemented throughout the country even for non-BCAPL events. See for example, many local tournaments, which often use BCAPL or a very close variant.

As has already been pointed out, this is one of the reasons along with many others why the BCA Pool League is a fan favorite for pool players!

 

[C. Carl McConnell]

Dear Sunnyday,
Reading your post reminded my of a situation that I encountered just a short time ago, all about a player in good standing that recieved a de-sanctioning letter from Bill Stork at the BCA. The letter was the request of our local league operator and pressed into action by Bill Stork.
What for you ask, disruption and interfering with a league BCA#263. Also bothering is the time and effort our office has spent to explain our policies to you. What happened to the OPEN DOOR POLICY.
This league is undersized sporting only 24 players with 5 four man teams. The only contact that I had with this league was during petitioning its members to change a local rule requiring calling the 9-Ball, not a BCAPL game to which I recieved a 54.16% vote infavor of changing the rule an item ignored by the BCAPL during de-sanctioning. All without disturbing the players games? I have witnesses.
I made one mistake, I notified the league operator the same time that I notified the BCAPL and she was on the phone the very next morning requesting de-sanctioning. As for the BCA what are they there for and why didn't they do something about this situation before it came to this? They can't say that they were unawares.
SO, HOW MANY COMPANY/LEAGUES LISTEN AND VALUE THEIR MEMBERS AS MUCH AS THE BCAPL.
Apparently quite a few.
C. Carl McConnell

I don't want this thread to turn into another APA bashing thread so I am going to just emphasize on the greatness on BCAPL

Why don't you rely on the ol' faithful that "the action speaks louder than words"? In BCAPL, as Mark Griffin, CEO, BCAPL pointed out earlier, the company is ran by pool players who all had been and are still playing pool competitively with passion so all the policy sat and modified are to accommodate for dedicated pool players. Because, we understand the conditions! BCAPL are the only league that keep an open door policy for all the players to submit any suggestion and we listen to them all. No one is turned away or ignored. For example, recently we changed criteria and added a division to make the National Championship fair to everyone - which took many hours of meetings and debates. We announced the policy change early on (10 months prior to next National Championship to be exact) so that words get out and people don't show up surprised! I know some leagues spring up the change when you get to the nationals and you have no choice because you're already there...

Although, we put all of our heads together and thought we combed through every detail, our members responded with valid complaints. We took it back to the drawing board and agreed some changes to be made and WE CHANGED IT! So, how many companies/ leagues listen and value their members as much as BCAPL?

How many companies/ leagues can you call the CEO direct and speak to him any time with any issues, suggestions and complaints? Mark G. even listed his personal cell phone number many times and it takes having balls size of the sun and pure pride in his league - product to invite anyone to call him for issues!

I think you should give the BCAPL a try, you may just love it! I'm not saying to quiet the APA. You can play both if you have the time. I'm pretty sure most areas when both leagues are offered, LOs have the common courtesy not to step on each other's boundaries. i.e. all BCAPL on Tuesday nights and APA on Thursday nights.

If you need help finding a BCAPL LO near you, feel free to call the office (702) 719-7665 or check out our web. www.playbca.com

You can also join the CSI (CueSports International - the parent company of BCAPL, USAPL and many more) Fan Page listed under my signature for updated information, upcoming BCAPL tournaments near you (regionals and state) or just to communicate.

Good luck and hope to see you sign up

S.

 

[C. Carl McConnell]

Dear FLICKit,
AMEN you are wrong. RULES ARE RULES Love um or lvum or go find what you want somewhere else. The rules do include LOCAL and without exception. See the BCAPL Web-Site under NEWS+New Rules

Wow! You are way off based on this one!


For starters, you ask a question and then answer it wrongly. I wouldn't be surprised if you now defend your own wrong answer in the near future.

That is one of the nice advantages of the BCA Pool League is that local league play is flexible to advance the wishes of the players in a particular area. Have you ever said, "I wish that a league would do..." or "I wish a pool league would be more like..." because it would be great for pool? Well, with the BCA Pool League your wish very often may come true.

But, for State, Regional, and National Events the BCA Pool League provides a precise set of rules which are provided in the BCAPL rule book. These rules are so highly regarded and widely favored by the pool players that they are often implemented throughout the country even for non-BCAPL events. See for example, many local tournaments, which often use BCAPL or a very close variant.

As has already been pointed out, this is one of the reasons along with many others why the BCA Pool League is a fan favorite for pool players!

 

[Scott Lee]

Carl...Not for nothin', but the BCAPL's head ref's name is Bill STOCK, not Stork! In my experience traveling around the country, and seeing many BCAPL's in play, I do know that, at the local level, the LO can do many things that are not allowed at the state, regional, and national level.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Dear Sunnyday,
Reading your post reminded my of a situation that I encountered just a short time ago, all about a player in good standing that recieved a de-sanctioning letter from Bill Stork at the BCA. The letter was the request of our local league operator and pressed into action by Bill Stork.
What for you ask, disruption and interfering with a league BCA#263. Also bothering is the time and effort our office has spent to explain our policies to you. What happened to the OPEN DOOR POLICY.
This league is undersized sporting only 24 players with 5 four man teams. The only contact that I had with this league was during petitioning its members to change a local rule requiring calling the 9-Ball, not a BCAPL game to which I recieved a 54.16% vote infavor of changing the rule an item ignored by the BCAPL during de-sanctioning. All without disturbing the players games? I have witnesses.
I made one mistake, I notified the league operator the same time that I notified the BCAPL and she was on the phone the very next morning requesting de-sanctioning. As for the BCA what are they there for and why didn't they do something about this situation before it came to this? They can't say that they were unawares.
SO, HOW MANY COMPANY/LEAGUES LISTEN AND VALUE THEIR MEMBERS AS MUCH AS THE BCAPL.
Apparently quite a few.
C. Carl McConnell

 

[cardiac kid]

Yes, BCAPL is for the more serious player. Change from one to the other? Why not play in both? I do. Six BCAPL and four APA each year. If you're not on a winning team, the BCAPL offers a higher return on your money. APA is all about the "free" trip to Vegas. If you decide to play BCA, you can enter the Nationals in Vegas. Singles, Scotch or Team. In the APA, you have to win a trip. Don't win, can't enter. Each has positive qualities. Each has drawbacks.

If you're trying to evade sandbaggers, it happens in BCAPL leagues as well. Any time you have a handicap system, there is an incentive for some players to disguise their true ability. Some players are always going to try for an advantage. Rule #1. Have fun playing pool! Rule #2? See #1.

Lyn

 

[offaxis]

To OP im from your same area and im in the APA perhaps we have played each other at some time. Let me know how you like the new league.

 

[Mr. Wiggles]

Players

Hey guys I have been playing billiards for 3 years now and have a strong love for the game. I have been playing in the APA for the last 2 years and I am a skill level 4 but come to learn that i dont like the sandbaging that goes on and the confration that come with playing in the bar. So i am thinking about joining the BCAPL any input would be great.

Thanks Shooters

Great players, that's it. This last weekend in Miami Ok. We had Chip Compton, Joey Grey, John Gabriel, Randy Estes, KC Massey, Gary Isabell, and some guy named Gabe Owens showed and played in the Grand Masters finishing second to Shane McMinn. Mark Demick a pro. Trick shot guy plays I. Our league in OKC. At home in OKC we are blessed to play with J Rod, Chuck Musick, Shane Ragland and lots of other great players. None of these great players play APA. Heads up always at high level events.

 

[Joeyb1979]

I picked convenience. I work and have a job. I don't have time to play in 3 different leagues. I play on Sundays (my relaxing day) with the apa on 7 ft diamond tables with 860. I don't have the luxury of playing through the week. So I take what I can get. I'm a 5 and I also try to play in weekly tournys every other week. When I'm not at work or working on the house.

 

[Scott Lee]

Mr. Wiggles...No need to bash the APA. It was never designed to attract, or accomodate, the level players that you're listing here. But since you mention Mark...Andy Segal, the current world trick shot champion, is an APA LO in NYC.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Great players, that's it. This last weekend in Miami Ok. We had Chip Compton, Joey Grey, John Gabriel, Randy Estes, KC Massey, Gary Isabell, and some guy named Gabe Owens showed and played in the Grand Masters finishing second to Shane McMinn. Mark Demick a pro. Trick shot guy plays I. Our league in OKC. At home in OKC we are blessed to play with J Rod, Chuck Musick, Shane Ragland and lots of other great players. None of these great players play APA. Heads up always at high level events.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

All Pool League are good for Bars & Pool Room that host Leagues, in their own way keep Pool alive, and keep people playing Pool. Not everyone is lucky enoght to have a Pool Room where they live to enjoy the game.