Odd looking rolls? What the hell does that mean. Do the balls roll in a circle or something? Odd looking rolls, that's a good one. I'll remember that as an excuse when and if I ever lose another game...
Grow up.........
Diamond ProAm vs. Brunswick Gold Crown
- Thread starter jalapus logan
- Start date
Grow up.........
perfectpocketz
Banned
As for others, they have stories about crowned slates years ago in one state or another but no name of a pool room where this supposedly occurred, stories about rock hard cushions which I've seen myself as often as I've seen flying saucers (and there are about 40 - 50 old Brunswick tables within 15 miles of me), yada, yada, yada.
Mark, not to knock Brunswick or Diamond, but Diamond tables also had rock hard cushions back when they used the fleetwood cushions.....they also wanted to change from the fleetwood cushion to Brunswick superspeed cushions....but found that Brunswick at that time was having trouble with their superspeed cushion becoming rock hard as well.
That's when the Artemith cushion was used on the Diamond tables....now that Glen and I helped figure out the right placement for the cushion on the sub-rail....the Artemith cushion plays pretty good on the Diamond tables, as well as the Brunswick tables.
All tables have stories behind them....why single out just the bad.
I mean...that's what keeps guy's that work on tables in business...hell if every table were perfect from the factory....just about anyone can change the cloth
They are both awesome tables....for that fact, I don"t think anyone will ever make a better bar table than the Diamond 7'.
Mark Gregory
You do not like my joke?
Yeah, right...
If I were your friend I'd be hitting up RKC for a refund. :grin-square::grin::grin-square:
Sorry, Glen, I couldn't resist. :wub:
Best,
Brian kc :duck:
As for others, they have stories about crowned slates years ago in one state or another but no name of a pool room where this supposedly occurred, stories about rock hard cushions which I've seen myself as often as I've seen flying saucers (and there are about 40 - 50 old Brunswick tables within 15 miles of me), yada, yada, yada.
Mark, not to knock Brunswick or Diamond, but Diamond tables also had rock hard cushions back when they used the fleetwood cushions.....they also wanted to change from the fleetwood cushion to Brunswick superspeed cushions....but found that Brunswick at that time was having trouble with their superspeed cushion becoming rock hard as well.
That's when the Artemith cushion was used on the Diamond tables....now that Glen and I helped figure out the right placement for the cushion on the sub-rail....the Artemith cushion plays pretty good on the Diamond tables, as well as the Brunswick tables.
All tables have stories behind them....why single out just the bad.
I mean...that's what keeps guy's that work on tables in business...hell if every table were perfect from the factory....just about anyone can change the cloth
They are both awesome tables....for that fact, I don"t think anyone will ever make a better bar table than the Diamond 7'.
Mark Gregory
:clapping:
I know I haven't been posting much on here lately, but in my defense I've been busy...really busy lately, so....I guess I'll take a few moments this morning to chime in on this conversation taking place.
Mark Gregory is right about the GC5's, they do have the strongest frame ever assembled on a pool table that I've ever seen....but, does that make it better? No, there is such a thing as over kill, and yes as far as I'm concerned Brunswick did overkill the frame on the GC5's....so much so that they should have used the 30mm slates on it instead of the 1" that way the extra weight would help keep the frame from changing level with the weather changes. It would also help if Brunswick would pay a little more attention to the pocket openings too, as most of the corner pockets, tournament edition or otherwise don't have the same measurements right from the factory.
I'm not knocking Brunswick, they're one of my favorite pool tables built, but one would think that after all the years they've been building pool tables....they could at least get the pockets to be the same all the way around.
All table manufactures have had problems with cushions and slates, but keep in mind....they don't manufacture either part....someone else does....and this includes Diamond!!!
As far as how long a table will last during it's lifetime of use, the Diamond ProAm will outlast in looks...all of them, even in commercial use....PROVIDED the table is taken care of!!! The reason I made that statement is because of Diamond's use of the dymondwood finished rails. No Formica finish will ever outlast this material as the finish of the dymondwood is not just on top of the material like Formica is, it goes all the way through it....1/4" thick, therefore you can't ever wear it off like a laminated finish does over time.
Mark Gregory....you know I"m a big fan of Brunswick Gold Crowns....as well as Diamond's....but you also know that neither manufacture built rails on their pool tables that YOU and I couldn't make play better than the factory could....and that's where I have to take a stand, because DIAMOND DID do something to improve they way their pool tables play because of you and I showing them something better...by way of calibrating the sub-rails to play at their absolute best...with the absolute best cushions on the market today....the Artemis Intercontinental K55 cushions....as you well know, you have a GC5 that YOU modified to play better than Brunswick could have ever manufactured right from their factories.
Diamond HAS taken the steps to IMPROVE their tables to be the best they can be for all those that would buy one....WHAT has Brunswick done to do the same?
For the record, I'd own either table...but I'd never pay the price Brunswick is wanting for a new GC5 compared to a Diamond ProAm....AND unlike the new Diamond....I'd still have to rebuild the rails on the new GC5 to get it to play more correctly....like a pool table should play....at it's BEST!
And to set the record straight for all those that feel that Diamond may have copied Brunswick's rails to make them play better....you're wrong, as the same cushions used on a Diamond will NOT play the same on a Brunswick Gold Crown....ANY of them...unless the rails are modified to accept the cushions to play the same....and that modification is NOT a Diamond OR Brunswick specification for the sub-rails....the spec's are a GLEN AND MARK GREGORY thing....as we both...that's right...WE decided at what sub-rail thickness and what sub-rail bevel to mount the cushions works the best in our opinion to make any table with the same thickness of rails play the best....so, to sum it up....the rail design is not Brunswick's or Diamond's....it's ours.
So, if you think your Brunswick's play better than Diamond's....then go play on a new Diamond, then come back and say something. And if you think your Diamond's play better than the tables Mark Gregory and I have rebuilt with OUR corrected rail design....then go play on one, then come back and say something
Bottom line is this....I can't make the Diamond's play any better than they are building new today...as Diamond has taken the steps to improve their tables....and have done so. Now all I can do...is put all the older Diamond's in the same boat as all the Gold Crown's.....in the aftermarket boat of yes....they can all be made to play much better....as there is now a small group of specialized table mechanics that now have the tooling AND training to do just that....so if you want to COBRAZISE your Diamond's or Gold Crowns....all you need to do is call one of the mechanic's that can do just that!!!
People are creatures of habit, they're going to play on whatever they feel the most comfortable playing on. They're also going to stand behind that pool table in their beliefs 100%....as people should. I'm not on here to bash Brunswick or anyone else that manufactures a line of pool tables, all I'm doing is supporting a company..."Diamond" that has taken on the challenge of making pool tables play better than they ever have in the past....with some kind of repeatable standards of production. I for the most part will only work on Diamond's or Brunswick's when it comes to perfecting the way a table plays...but, that don't mean I won't take on the job of working on other tables as well and putting my skills to use on some other manufactured tables as well. But....I will NOT work on junk, which is what seems to be filling up the world today with pool tables....because people just don't know any better
NOTHING is stopping Brunswick from stepping up to the plate and learning something from Diamond's table design in order to improve the play of their line up of pool tables....so, what are they waiting for....a better table...or more sheep to sell them to?
Glen, the "Realkingcobra"
Mark Gregory is right about the GC5's, they do have the strongest frame ever assembled on a pool table that I've ever seen....but, does that make it better? No, there is such a thing as over kill, and yes as far as I'm concerned Brunswick did overkill the frame on the GC5's....so much so that they should have used the 30mm slates on it instead of the 1" that way the extra weight would help keep the frame from changing level with the weather changes. It would also help if Brunswick would pay a little more attention to the pocket openings too, as most of the corner pockets, tournament edition or otherwise don't have the same measurements right from the factory.
I'm not knocking Brunswick, they're one of my favorite pool tables built, but one would think that after all the years they've been building pool tables....they could at least get the pockets to be the same all the way around.
All table manufactures have had problems with cushions and slates, but keep in mind....they don't manufacture either part....someone else does....and this includes Diamond!!!
As far as how long a table will last during it's lifetime of use, the Diamond ProAm will outlast in looks...all of them, even in commercial use....PROVIDED the table is taken care of!!! The reason I made that statement is because of Diamond's use of the dymondwood finished rails. No Formica finish will ever outlast this material as the finish of the dymondwood is not just on top of the material like Formica is, it goes all the way through it....1/4" thick, therefore you can't ever wear it off like a laminated finish does over time.
Mark Gregory....you know I"m a big fan of Brunswick Gold Crowns....as well as Diamond's....but you also know that neither manufacture built rails on their pool tables that YOU and I couldn't make play better than the factory could....and that's where I have to take a stand, because DIAMOND DID do something to improve they way their pool tables play because of you and I showing them something better...by way of calibrating the sub-rails to play at their absolute best...with the absolute best cushions on the market today....the Artemis Intercontinental K55 cushions....as you well know, you have a GC5 that YOU modified to play better than Brunswick could have ever manufactured right from their factories.
Diamond HAS taken the steps to IMPROVE their tables to be the best they can be for all those that would buy one....WHAT has Brunswick done to do the same?
For the record, I'd own either table...but I'd never pay the price Brunswick is wanting for a new GC5 compared to a Diamond ProAm....AND unlike the new Diamond....I'd still have to rebuild the rails on the new GC5 to get it to play more correctly....like a pool table should play....at it's BEST!
And to set the record straight for all those that feel that Diamond may have copied Brunswick's rails to make them play better....you're wrong, as the same cushions used on a Diamond will NOT play the same on a Brunswick Gold Crown....ANY of them...unless the rails are modified to accept the cushions to play the same....and that modification is NOT a Diamond OR Brunswick specification for the sub-rails....the spec's are a GLEN AND MARK GREGORY thing....as we both...that's right...WE decided at what sub-rail thickness and what sub-rail bevel to mount the cushions works the best in our opinion to make any table with the same thickness of rails play the best....so, to sum it up....the rail design is not Brunswick's or Diamond's....it's ours.
So, if you think your Brunswick's play better than Diamond's....then go play on a new Diamond, then come back and say something. And if you think your Diamond's play better than the tables Mark Gregory and I have rebuilt with OUR corrected rail design....then go play on one, then come back and say something
Bottom line is this....I can't make the Diamond's play any better than they are building new today...as Diamond has taken the steps to improve their tables....and have done so. Now all I can do...is put all the older Diamond's in the same boat as all the Gold Crown's.....in the aftermarket boat of yes....they can all be made to play much better....as there is now a small group of specialized table mechanics that now have the tooling AND training to do just that....so if you want to COBRAZISE your Diamond's or Gold Crowns....all you need to do is call one of the mechanic's that can do just that!!!
People are creatures of habit, they're going to play on whatever they feel the most comfortable playing on. They're also going to stand behind that pool table in their beliefs 100%....as people should. I'm not on here to bash Brunswick or anyone else that manufactures a line of pool tables, all I'm doing is supporting a company..."Diamond" that has taken on the challenge of making pool tables play better than they ever have in the past....with some kind of repeatable standards of production. I for the most part will only work on Diamond's or Brunswick's when it comes to perfecting the way a table plays...but, that don't mean I won't take on the job of working on other tables as well and putting my skills to use on some other manufactured tables as well. But....I will NOT work on junk, which is what seems to be filling up the world today with pool tables....because people just don't know any better
NOTHING is stopping Brunswick from stepping up to the plate and learning something from Diamond's table design in order to improve the play of their line up of pool tables....so, what are they waiting for....a better table...or more sheep to sell them to?
Glen, the "Realkingcobra"
perfectpocketz
Banned
Glen, that was very well said and 100 percent true.
You are by far a great mechanic, and a good guy.
See ya soon.....and I mean by the end of the month?????
We have billiard tables to deliver.
Mark Gregory
You are by far a great mechanic, and a good guy.
See ya soon.....and I mean by the end of the month?????
We have billiard tables to deliver.
Mark Gregory
Well, finally I'm seeing some information in this thread that's significantly useful. Thanks.
A "new Diamond" being what? What year or month/year of manufacture and is there any way for me to tell what that is by looking at the table?
Originally Posted by risky biz
If I hit a shot that's a little off and headed for the point then rolls off into the pocket I say, "WTF"? It happens more on Diamonds this way and the other way, too.
Uh, huh.
If I hit a shot that's a little off and headed for the point then rolls off into the pocket I say, "WTF"? It happens more on Diamonds this way and the other way, too.
Uh, huh.
Originally Posted by risky biz
Grow up.........
What joke? You're just acting really juvenile.
Grow up.........
What joke? You're just acting really juvenile.
QUOTE=risky biz;2951593]As for others, they have stories about crowned slates years ago in one state or another but no name of a pool room where this supposedly occurred, stories about rock hard cushions which I've seen myself as often as I've seen flying saucers (and there are about 40 - 50 old Brunswick tables within 15 miles of me), yada, yada, yada.risky biz[/QUOTE]
This weekend I'm going to be playing on a GC V that was recovered with Simonis this week and there will be five Diamonds right next to it that were also recovered last week. I can't wait.
Mark, not to knock Brunswick or Diamond, but Diamond tables also had rock hard cushions back when they used the fleetwood cushions.....they also wanted to change from the fleetwood cushion to Brunswick superspeed cushions....but found that Brunswick at that time was having trouble with their superspeed cushion becoming rock hard as well.
That's when the Artemith cushion was used on the Diamond tables....now that Glen and I helped figure out the right placement for the cushion on the sub-rail....the Artemith cushion plays pretty good on the Diamond tables, as well as the Brunswick tables.
All tables have stories behind them....why single out just the bad.
I mean...that's what keeps guy's that work on tables in business...hell if every table were perfect from the factory....just about anyone can change the cloth
They are both awesome tables....for that fact, I don"t think anyone will ever make a better bar table than the Diamond 7'.perfectpocketz
This weekend I'm going to be playing on a GC V that was recovered with Simonis this week and there will be five Diamonds right next to it that were also recovered last week. I can't wait.
Out of level tables are just that...out of level...it don't matter what table is being played on...or who built it....so it's NOT a Diamond thing only. Diamond just like Brunswick only builds the tables then sells them, after that fact...the rest is up to the table mechanic that works on the tables.....ALL the tables. Bad slates are bad slates period, and ever table manufacture on earth has delt with them at one time or another...but an out of level table has NOTHING do to with Diamond or Brunswick! Complain to the last table mechanic that worked on the tables!!!
Glen
Newer Diamonds have blue AND red Diamond logo's on the head rail, so it depends on when the tables were bought. If they're newer than September of last year....then yes, they have the new rail design....if not, then they were built before September of last year. Also keep in mind...someone ELSE has been working on them tables more than likely...so their work may not represent Diamond very well....SAME as Brunswick's....once they've been worked on by someone else....the table is in the hands of who worked on them last....and I'll tell you something right now....MOST of the table mechanic's in this country couldn't change a roll of toilet paper right...let alone work on a pool table correctly....
there's more to being a table mechanic than just replacing the cloth!!!!!
Glen
We're on for the end of the month buddy...I'm in route to the Diamond factory right now....just one more table to work on...then pick up 3 Diamonds from Sioux Falls, SD....then on to the Diamond factory!!!!!
This right here is the heart of the whole thing, folks. So much of the debate seems to center on people's experience with decades old Brunswicks that have been hacked on by god knows who over the years to relatively newer Diamonds that were most likely set up by masters like Glen, Mark or Donny. That is why I always include the caveat of "properly set up" when entering these discussions.
Thanks Glen. I tell people all the time the mechanic is at least as important as the table. Get the right guy, pay the man, and don't look back. You will get years of pleasure for what is a relatively small investment.
So, whether you prefer the play of a Diamond or a Gold Crown, be at peace and go with it because they are both great tables. But to get the most out of it, get a master who knows what they are doing to set it up. :grin-square:
