Diamond ProAm vs. Brunswick Gold Crown

[risky biz]

And, no, the GC's rails do not hold up fine. I've seen many with the laminate peeling off, exposing bare, unfinished wood? If you are talking home use, then, by and large they will be fine. But, you never know.

I'll bet you've never seen a Diamond anywhere near as old as those Brunswicks you're referring to. See, you don't really know how the Diamonds are going to hold up when they're that old. But this is straying far from the primary subject. This thread isn't about how each table would fare in an abuse test. That's like arguing which of two golf clubs is better after banging the shafts against an anvil. Completely irrelevant.

In a commercial environment, there is just no way you can convince me that the GC rails will hold up as well as

Maybe I can't convince you but I know damned well that there are plenty of GC's around in commercial environments that don't have the rail problems that you envision

Where on the Brunswick [URL="http://www.brunswickbilliards.com/catalog/pool-tables/gold-crown-v.html"]website do they do they use the bolded words above to describe their table??? They do offer a lifetime warranty though.

Look, I'm not putting down Gold Crowns, I'm just saying that this pool player has played on many of each, and I think that Diamond's tables are superior. All, just my opinion.

Here is a synopsis of the Brunswick warranty:
"Brunswick Billiards (“Brunswick”) hereby warrants that its billiards tables will be free from defects in materials and workmanship for the life of the table. The lifetime warranty is effective for all Brunswick Billiard table purchases as long as the table is owned by the original owner (“Owner”), and manufactured after January 1998."

Here is a synopsis of the Diamond warranty:
"DIAMOND PROVIDES A FULL PART AND LABOR WARRANTY FOR A PERIOD OF 90 DAYS FROM DELIVERY OF EQUIPMENT AND A LIMITED WARRANTY AGAINST MANUFACTURING DEFECTS IN MATERIALS AND WORKMANSHIP FOR A PERIOD OF TWO YEARS." (This is on the Pro-Am page but not the Professional page. Don't know if that means the Professional doesn't have the same warranty, though.)

Is there a possibility that the people who actually designed and produced your table have a very different opinion of it's longevity than you do?

I think the bottom line is that you own a Diamond and are proud of it. I play on Diamond Pro-Ams all the time and I love them. I do, however, have an issue with commentators saying they are better quality than a Brunswick GC. They aren't. I also give Diamond all the credit in the world for designing and producing a good playing table at a lower price point.

 

[risky biz]

I just love watching tournaments played in Goldcrown, I don't know why... but I just like the way they play/look, i love the 90's tournaments because of that.

A properly set up GC5 Tournament Edition is a pleasure to play on.

 

[RackemBilliards]

GC vs Diamond Pro Am

Wow. 141-141. That's pretty close

 

[Mark Griffin]

Diamond vs brunswick

Just my 2 cents.

There are some posts on here that are filled with more emotion than fact.

Here are a couple of facts: diamond uses Artemis cushions. Brunswick uses much inferior rubber. There are several threads on azbilliards about Brunswick rubber turning rock hard in only a few years. That is because the rubber compound is still 'curing'. This has happened several times and almost all table manufactures have had batch of rail rubber go bad. I don't believe Artemis rubber has ever gone hard.

Slates. Several years ago, I personally know of 2 commercial rooms that had badly crowned slates. Total of about 40 tables (1 room in Alaska, 1 in new York). Brunswick would not warranty. Told owners to drill slate and screw them to the frame cross members. Problem is the cross members are designed for 'pulling' down slate- in fact the cross members usually are almost 'floating'. Brunswick slates are NOT better.

My thoughts- and I have been around tables since 1964 (as a mechanic)

Mark griffin

(disclaimer- I am a partner in diamond. But the reason i am is because I know how the other tables are made)

 

[1shot]

risky biz

Why dont you just say you would rather drive a Ford and be done with it.

I will respect that because of age or time whatever your reason is.

I know a little bit about this subject.

Your point wont pass the logic test because even with a Gold Crown Turnament Addition you dont have quite the same slate shelf depth and the angles are a little more generous.

Once again I will say - If you play on a Diamond you can play on anything!!!!!

If you play on a Gold Crown all the time you better PRACTICE on a Diamond if wont to win the cash$

"C.D."

 

[realkingcobra]

Wouldn't that be more an issue of the number of GC's vs. Diamonds, their respective ages, and how well their owners were taking care of them?

No...not really...because the money I make from working on ALL the Gold Crowns I work on...is to make them play more like Diamonds...not like better playing Gold Crowns

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

A properly set up GC5 Tournament Edition is a pleasure to play on.

So is a GC4, or 1-3 for that matter. :wink:

 

[risky biz]

Why dont you just say you would rather drive a Ford and be done with it.

I will respect that because of age or time whatever your reason is.

I know a little bit about this subject.

Your point wont pass the logic test because even with a Gold Crown Turnament Addition you dont have quite the same slate shelf depth and the angles are a little more generous.

Once again I will say - If you play on a Diamond you can play on anything!!!!!

If you play on a Gold Crown all the time you better PRACTICE on a Diamond if wont to win the cash$

"C.D."

Maybe you haven't been reading what I've been saying. I don't prefer one over the other. I just don't see any valid reason to believe that a Diamond is a better table than a Brunswick.

As far as Brunswick pockets being "more generous", they aren't. If your aim and stroke are accurate the ball goes down equally well on both tables. No generosity required.

I think a lot of the people here who are raving about Diamonds are comparing them to Brunswicks with big pockets, have never played on a Brunswick Tournament Edition, and attribute their perceived step up in skill to Diamond simply because that was the cheaper table that the pool room chose.

 

[risky biz]

No...not really...because the money I make from working on ALL the Gold Crowns I work on...is to make them play more like Diamonds...not like better playing Gold Crowns

How many Gold Crown V Tournament Editions have you converted to play "more like a Diamond" Pro-Am?

 

[risky biz]

Just my 2 cents.

There are some posts on here that are filled with more emotion than fact.

Here are a couple of facts: diamond uses Artemis cushions. Brunswick uses much inferior rubber. There are several threads on azbilliards about Brunswick rubber turning rock hard in only a few years. That is because the rubber compound is still 'curing'. This has happened several times and almost all table manufactures have had batch of rail rubber go bad. I don't believe Artemis rubber has ever gone hard.

Slates. Several years ago, I personally know of 2 commercial rooms that had badly crowned slates. Total of about 40 tables (1 room in Alaska, 1 in new York). Brunswick would not warranty. Told owners to drill slate and screw them to the frame cross members. Problem is the cross members are designed for 'pulling' down slate- in fact the cross members usually are almost 'floating'. Brunswick slates are NOT better.

My thoughts- and I have been around tables since 1964 (as a mechanic)

Mark griffin

(disclaimer- I am a partner in diamond. But the reason i am is because I know how the other tables are made)

I'm NOT a partner in Brunswick. Just for the record.

 

[JoeyInCali]

If Diamond had Gold Crown tear-shaped top rail and maybe a little more generous corners on rail shots ( bring in the angle a little of the end rail facings ), it'd be perfect.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

If Diamond had Gold Crown tear-shaped top rail and maybe a little more generous corners on rail shots ( bring in the angle a little of the end rail facings ), it'd be perfect.

Besides the top rails, I also prefer the pockets on the GC. I don't like the humped pockets on the Diamonds because when using a rail bridge on the pocket my cue is fighting a side slope. And the GC pockets don't leave marks on the balls. I also note that with all this talk about "Diamondizing" GCs the Diamond factory itself Gold Crowned their tables to bank more accurately like a GC.

While on the subject of Diamondizing GC's, is there really such a thing unless you swap out the slates for deep shelves? Personally I wouldn't want that anyway. To me a ball that cleanly hits the facing should go down and not rattle, but this does happen occasionally on a Diamond. I just find it fascinating that this same trait that everyone complains about on an Olhausen is found so endearing when it happens on a Diamond.

Diamonds and GC's stand alone as the two best tables. I like the way they both play but prefer the GC a little. That's just me. I get that some prefer the Diamond. That's cool, it's all good. There are some differences in the way they play but these really come down to personal preference rather than fact as to which is better.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

As of this post the poll is dead even at 146 - 146 so it is clear that both tables have their fans.

I enjoy playing on both but own a GC1.

For me, the choice came down to $$$. The Diamond would have cost close to double what I paid for my beautiful GC1.

I am a vocal proponent of buying 'Made in the USA' products and it is concerning to me that new Brunswicks are Chinese made. This could open up a whole new debate, but suffice to say, in my personal experience, products made in China are typically inferior. Go work with a Snap-on or Matco socket set for 6 months then switch over to a set from China. Unfortunately, this is in no way limited to tools.

So I do have what I consider to be valid concerns over the quality of new GC's vs Diamonds. However, I do believe that older GC tables, certainly series 1 and 2 GC's not only play extremely well, but they can last a lifetime, possibly two. :thumbup:

Like many polls, and despite Jalapus Logan's seemingly sincere attempt at making it as straight forward as possible, this poll also couldn't escape having some flaws.

It is as if we're being asked 'Chevy or Ford' but then we're left wondering whether we're comparing a Saleen Mustang to a Caprice or a Country Squire station wagon to a Corvette.

There are too many variables.

One thing is certain to me. I can enjoy myself playing on either brand table.

Best,
Brian kc

 

[smashmouth]

I'd be happy with either, but since the poll included an 'other' category I'll vote for the Gabriels Signature Pro

Steel frame, Artemis cushions, 15 ball pockets, 30 mm slate

destroys GC's and Diamonds, best table I ever played on

It doesn't appear that Gabriels is too interested in the American market which is good for Diamond and Brunswick

now if Diamond made a 10 foot pro with 60 mm slate and ball return, I'd pony up for that pretty quick (unless Gabriels did it first)

too bad the partnership between Diamond and Gabriels dissolved so quickly

 

[jalapus logan]

I'll bet you've never seen a Diamond anywhere near as old as those Brunswicks you're referring to. See, you don't really know how the Diamonds are going to hold up when they're that old. But this is straying far from the primary subject. This thread isn't about how each table would fare in an abuse test. That's like arguing which of two golf clubs is better after banging the shafts against an anvil. Completely irrelevant.

This comment is ridiculous, as there were no Diamond tables manufactured 100 + years ago. And I certainly disagree with you that table structure and longevity is irrelevant. For the buying public, it is about discussing the relative merits of high quality pool tables so that they can make an informed decision.

Here is a synopsis of the Brunswick warranty:
"Brunswick Billiards (“Brunswick”) hereby warrants that its billiards tables will be free from defects in materials and workmanship for the life of the table. The lifetime warranty is effective for all Brunswick Billiard table purchases as long as the table is owned by the original owner (“Owner”), and manufactured after January 1998."

Here is a synopsis of the Diamond warranty:
"DIAMOND PROVIDES A FULL PART AND LABOR WARRANTY FOR A PERIOD OF 90 DAYS FROM DELIVERY OF EQUIPMENT AND A LIMITED WARRANTY AGAINST MANUFACTURING DEFECTS IN MATERIALS AND WORKMANSHIP FOR A PERIOD OF TWO YEARS." (This is on the Pro-Am page but not the Professional page. Don't know if that means the Professional doesn't have the same warranty, though.)

Is there a possibility that the people who actually designed and produced your table have a very different opinion of it's longevity than you do?

Not a chance.

I think the bottom line is that you own a Diamond and are proud of it. I play on Diamond Pro-Ams all the time and I love them. I do, however, have an issue with commentators saying they are better quality than a Brunswick GC. They aren't. I also give Diamond all the credit in the world for designing and producing a good playing table at a lower price point.

I am not proud of owning a Diamond product. I derive pride from accomplishments, not buying stuff. I know that this mentality is contrary to the mindset of the average consumer (see, we now substitute the word "consumer" for the word "citizen" nowadays, as if our primary worth as an individual is derived from our willingness and ability to purchase crap from corporations - but I digress again).

So, tell me, do you think that the Diamond pro/pro am is an inferior table, about the same quality, or better than the GC? If you think that the Diamond product is at least on par with the GC, then how can you possibly justify the GC's higher price point?

Look, after doing my due diligence and playing on each for years, I did not see how the GC was a better product, especially given the higher price point. I ended up buying a USED Diamond pro 4.5 years ago and have loved every minute of it. Proud owner, nah. Enthusiastic, sure.

Cheers...

 

[realkingcobra]

I'd be happy with either, but since the poll included an 'other' category I'll vote for the Gabriels Signature Pro

Steel frame, Artemis cushions, 15 ball pockets, 30 mm slate

destroys GC's and Diamonds, best table I ever played on

It doesn't appear that Gabriels is too interested in the American market which is good for Diamond and Brunswick

now if Diamond made a 10 foot pro with 60 mm slate and ball return, I'd pony up for that pretty quick (unless Gabriels did it first)

too bad the partnership between Diamond and Gabriels dissolved so quickly

It takes a while to get a Gabriels 9ft...because they first have to import all the MDF particle board they use in the construction of the rail side skirts and leg pedestal's

 

[realkingcobra]

Besides the top rails, I also prefer the pockets on the GC. I don't like the humped pockets on the Diamonds because when using a rail bridge on the pocket my cue is fighting a side slope. And the GC pockets don't leave marks on the balls. I also note that with all this talk about "Diamondizing" GCs the Diamond factory itself

Gold Crowned their tables to bank more accurately like a GC.

While on the subject of Diamondizing GC's, is there really such a thing unless you swap out the slates for deep shelves? Personally I wouldn't want that anyway. To me a ball that cleanly hits the facing should go down and not rattle, but this does happen occasionally on a Diamond. I just find it fascinating that this same trait that everyone complains about on an Olhausen is found so endearing when it happens on a Diamond.

Diamonds and GC's stand alone as the two best tables. I like the way they both play but prefer the GC a little. That's just me. I get that some prefer the Diamond. That's cool, it's all good. There are some differences in the way they play but these really come down to personal preference rather than fact as to which is better.

If the Diamonds were changed to play like Gold Crowns, then wouldn't the cushions that Diamond uses be interchangable with the Gold Crowns? The redesign I did on the Diamond rails to change how they play....being much better....would also have to be done to ANY Gold Crown as well....think about that for a minute

 

[risky biz]

I'd be happy with either, but since the poll included an 'other' category I'll vote for the Gabriels Signature Pro

Steel frame, Artemis cushions, 15 ball pockets, 30 mm slate

destroys GC's and Diamonds, best table I ever played on

It doesn't appear that Gabriels is too interested in the American market which is good for Diamond and Brunswick

now if Diamond made a 10 foot pro with 60 mm slate and ball return, I'd pony up for that pretty quick (unless Gabriels did it first)

too bad the partnership between Diamond and Gabriels dissolved so quickly

If it isn't too much trouble how do the pocket dimensions and pocket shape on that compare to the Diamonds and Brunswick Tournaments?

 

[risky biz]

So, tell me, do you think that the Diamond pro/pro am is an inferior table, about the same quality, or better than the GC? If you think that the Diamond product is at least on par with the GC, then how can you possibly justify the GC's higher price point?

This thread wasn't started as a discussion of price points. It was merely a question of which table was preferred to play on. You then proceeded to bash Brunswick as a piece of junk which is eminently false.

 

[risky biz]

Originally Posted by risky biz
I'll bet you've never seen a Diamond anywhere near as old as those Brunswicks you're referring to. See, you don't really know how the Diamonds are going to hold up when they're that old. But this is straying far from the primary subject. This thread isn't about how each table would fare in an abuse test. That's like arguing which of two golf clubs is better after banging the shafts against an anvil. Completely irrelevant.

This comment is ridiculous, as there were no Diamond tables manufactured 100 + years ago. And I certainly disagree with you that table structure and longevity is irrelevant. For the buying public, it is about discussing the relative merits of high quality pool tables so that they can make an informed decision.

It isn't irrelevant if you're describing a Brunswick as junk because of "peeling rails" or something to that effect when that table is a hundred years old, may have been abused by it's owner, and there isn't a Diamond in existence of an age that is even remotely near the Brunswick's.