Mosconi's record in challenge matches

[Mr441]

As most everyone knows Mosconi completely dominated 14.1 from about 1941 -1958 when he unofficially retired. What some may not know is that he had an incredible record in long challenge matches. Sometimes they had a long challenge match for the world championship, sometimes twice in one year. These were played over several days or weeks with the player with the most points after 20, 30 or 50 games being the winner. Mosconi was at his best in these matches, he simply had too many big runs too often for his opponents to keep up. He only lost one I believe. He particularly trounced Crane mercilessly in these contests, here are the outcomes:

1943: Ponzi 1250
Mosconi 1050

1944: Mosconi 1250
Ponzi 924

1945: Mosconi 5498
GreenleAF 3738

1946: Mosconi 8727
Caras 7508

1946: Mosconi 3750
Crane 2919

1947: Mosconi 2000
Crane 918

1947: Mosconi 4000
Caras 2334

1948: Mosconi 1300
Ponzi 643

1951: Mosconi 3000
Crane 2323

1954: Mosconi 2400
Procita 989


I would love it if they did this sort of thing today. I'm sure between Hohmann, Ortmann, Pagulayan, Schmidt, Souquet etc it would get pretty exciting.

 

[measureman]

I heard stories about these matches. Mosconi would run like 200 or 250 from the break and say to his opponent "Your shot".

 

[Bobby]

Mosconi's record in challenge matches has always impressed the hell out of me. Sadly, besides straight pool enthusiasts not many people seem to care. When I mention these kinds of statitistics about Mosconi to my 9 ball friends they look at me like I'm talking about Cricket or Curling, they just don't care.

 

[gunzby]

Mosconi's record in challenge matches has always impressed the hell out of me. Sadly, besides straight pool enthusiasts not many people seem to care. When I mention these kinds of statitistics about Mosconi to my 9 ball friends they look at me like I'm talking about Cricket or Curling, they just don't care.

You need to explain to them that it would be like seeing someone who played a race to 100 in 9 ball and every time but once he beat them 100-50. After they realize the magnitude of that tell that in 9 ball terms he would run 5-7 racks and then say I'm tired....you go ahead and play.

 

[Mr441]

Mosconi's record in challenge matches has always impressed the hell out of me. Sadly, besides straight pool enthusiasts not many people seem to care. When I mention these kinds of statitistics about Mosconi to my 9 ball friends they look at me like I'm talking about Cricket or Curling, they just don't care.

It's sad that probably the greatest player to ever live is hardly remembered, and there's no real video of him playing a match in his prime.

 

[Celtic]

It's sad that probably the greatest player to ever live is hardly remembered, and there's no real video of him playing a match in his prime.

That plain pisses me off. I mean cripe, there is video of Hoppe and Greenleaf playing 20 years BEFORE Mosconi's prime, he was a pretty big star and pool was alot more popular back then. There is a fair bit of medi of Mosconi doing trick shots or dumb fake matches recreating stuff, but where the heck is the actual footage of Mosconi playing in his prime in a world championship? I KNOW that some of that stuff must have been taped but it is clearly lost, possibly burried in some TV studio's vault, some is probably destroyed.

More then anyone else I want to see footage of Mosconi from the 40's in an actual world championship match just to see how good he really was. I have seen him at 67 years old shooting at a level that would make him a threat to beat anyone at any age, and that was decades past his prime and long removed from playing competitive pool. I am guessing that if we could get a 2 or 3 hour segment of Mosconi playing in a world championship on a 5x10 table against someone like Crane, Ponzi, or Caras that would be one heck of a thing to discuss, I am guessing he was something of a machine given the way he shot (and I mean style of stroke) at a later age.

 

[jerseybillG]

jerseybillg

I too only saw willie after he retired...played on our poolrom 5X10 in ex. for Brunswick always ran a 100 or more .....i heard yrs. ago that most of the fims of him playing were lost in a fire at his home...sad

 

[Bob Jewett]

I heard stories about these matches. Mosconi would run like 200 or 250 from the break and say to his opponent "Your shot".

Actually, the longest run in a championship challenge match seems to have been by Procita against Mosconi in the 1954 challenge listed above: 182. It's strange that Mosconi never had a higher run in a match considering how many total points he had.

 

[Stones]

Back in the early 60's, ABC's Wide World of Sports used to show sections of the finals of the World 14.1 Championship for a few years. I remember seeing Mosconi, Crane, Ciscero Murphy, Joe Balsas (sp.) and Caras, among others, playing.

I wonder if they archived any of it and if it's available anywhere.

Stones

 

[Rich93]

Back in the early 60's, ABC's Wide World of Sports used to show sections of the finals of the World 14.1 Championship for a few years. I remember seeing Mosconi, Crane, Ciscero Murphy, Joe Balsas (sp.) and Caras, among others, playing.

I wonder if they archived any of it and if it's available anywhere.

Stones

Mosconi didn't play in any 14.1 tournament after 1957 except for a 1966 tournament in Burbank CA in which he came in second to Balsis.

I have seen a challenge match with Caras to 125 or 150 points that appeared on TV in 1963. It wasn't for any title, just a set-up entertainment match during the post-Hustler boom days. Mosconi never really got in gear and Caras won. Just as Mosconi was beginning to get going, he may have been sharked by an overly ambitious referee who pointed at the called ball just as Mosconi was pulling the trigger. He missed a pretty ordinary shot, though he was jacked up over a ball or using the bridge, I forget which.

 

[jay helfert]

As most everyone knows Mosconi completely dominated 14.1 from about 1941 -1958 when he unofficially retired. What some may not know is that he had an incredible record in long challenge matches. Sometimes they had a long challenge match for the world championship, sometimes twice in one year. These were played over several days or weeks with the player with the most points after 20, 30 or 50 games being the winner. Mosconi was at his best in these matches, he simply had too many big runs too often for his opponents to keep up. He only lost one I believe. He particularly trounced Crane mercilessly in these contests, here are the outcomes:

1943: Ponzi 1250
Mosconi 1050

1944: Mosconi 1250
Ponzi 924

1945: Mosconi 5498
GreenleAF 3738

1946: Mosconi 8727
Caras 7508

1946: Mosconi 3750
Crane 2919

1947: Mosconi 2000
Crane 918

1947: Mosconi 4000
Caras 2334

1948: Mosconi 1300
Ponzi 643

1951: Mosconi 3000
Crane 2323

1954: Mosconi 2400
Procita 989


I would love it if they did this sort of thing today. I'm sure between Hohmann, Ortmann, Pagulayan, Schmidt, Souquet etc it would get pretty exciting.

They do, it's called TAR! :wink:

 

[Mr441]

They do, it's called TAR! :wink:

Yeah TAR is great but I don't believe they've done a long 14.1 match. I would pay good money to see Hohmann and Ortmann play a 1000 point match over 3 days. But I doubt they would get many viewers.

 

[jay helfert]

Yeah TAR is great but I don't believe they've done a long 14.1 match. I would pay good money to see Hohmann and Ortmann play a 1000 point match over 3 days. But I doubt they would get many viewers.

Fifty plus years ago Straight Pool was the main tournament game. TAR shows long matches in the games that are currently being played today by the top players. If two top players (Remember Schmidt and Harriman) played a long Straight Pool match, TAR might be willing to show that as well. It is the players who are not interested in a long 14.1 match, not TAR.

 

[pdcue]

Back in the early 60's, ABC's Wide World of Sports used to show sections of the finals of the World 14.1 Championship for a few years. I remember seeing Mosconi, Crane, Ciscero Murphy, Joe Balsas (sp.) and Caras, among others, playing.

I wonder if they archived any of it and if it's available anywhere.

Stones

Those were broadcasts of the US Open - though not technically
the world championship - it was defacto in those days.

As was mentioned - Mosconi didn't take part in any of those.

Good old Acu-Stats does offer a video of the 1966 14.1 Finals.
Crane runs the famous '150 and out' against Joe Balsis.

Dale

 

[real bartram]

Actually, the longest run in a championship challenge match seems to have been by Procita against Mosconi in the 1954 challenge listed above: 182. It's strange that Mosconi never had a higher run in a match considering how many total points he had.

someone on here said he would run 250 from the break.
hmmmmmmmmmmmm