Ralf Forfeits!???

lfigueroa said:
Jay, there is no phone call that makes it right and fair to the opponent. It's like being a supervisor at work: whatever the company policy is for, lets say emergency leave, are the rules for all your employees, no exceptions. Because the second you make one exception, every single employee thinks that their personal emergency is equally dire and also worthy of exemption: problems with a spouse; day care center had water damage; dead car battery; death of a third cousin; and on and on. The *only* way to be fair is to stick to the rules.

I personally believe that scheduling exceptions to the rules, particularly for higher profile players, is one of the things that is wrong with our sport. Everyone wants to be a good guy with the Ralfs, the Earls, the Johnnys, and the Mika and give them the benefit of the doubt. But that is not fair.

At the player's meeting for the 1pocket we were told that the official clock was the one on the tournament room wall. If you weren't there at your appointed match time, by that clock, you began to forfeit games. If you cared, you set your wrist watch to the time on that clock, and were in place well before your match time, or lived with the consequences.

That's fair.

Lou Figueroa
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You know why everyone wants to be good guys to the top guys? Because they are the reason the event is there in the first place. No one came to watch this tournament to see a bunch of guys they don't know play pool. No one pays money for a PPV to watch guys they have never heard of. And if you dont turn some money on the gate by people paying to watch you will not see that tournament ever again which means the normal guy will never have a chance to play in it again either.

Everyone talks about wanting pro pool to be bigger and get more exposure, well to do that you need stars and sometimes stars get more rolls than the guy in the catering truck.

I'm not talking about pushing a match because some guy stayed up shooting dice all night and missed his start time. I'm talking about just this type of situation. And it is a rare one. I think it was handled well. The TD did make a decision. He made a decision to do what he could within the bounds of common sense to try and get one of the highest profile matches in tournament to get played rather than never happen. They gave Corey the option to push to 3PM or go at 12:30 as scheduled. They were asking Corey if he wanted to help out a fellow pro and the event or not. He chose not too. And had every right and should not be talked bad about because of it. The TD could have TOLD Corey "You are being pushed to 3" Its that golden rule thing. But they didnt.

The CSI group runs the tightest events in the U.S. They do what they can for people within the bounds of common sense and what the rules allow. They want to keep everyone as happy as possible and believe me, I know the TD's, they will whack a top guys pee pee in a minute if they have to. No one is star struck.

Overall I think it was handled as best as could be expected when you take into account all of the variables and time lines involved.
 
Mitchxout said:
At post time there are no variables. You're there or not.
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Sure there are variables

Things are fluid. People who are entirely rigid with no flexibility based on common sense do not get to make the rules because they could never get an event to go off in the first place. Right or wrong, wish it wasnt so or whatever. You play the cards you're dealt the best you can.
 
JCIN said:
Sure there are variables

Things are fluid. People who are entirely rigid with no flexibility based on common sense do not get to make the rules because they could never get an event to go off in the first place. Right or wrong, wish it wasnt so or whatever. You play the cards you're dealt the best you can.
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Ship the final day schedule big money! I got my rally cap on today
 
Haven't seen it anywhere, so what was Ralf's opinion / attitude toward what was done? Did he just take in stride ? Was anything said in regards to you should have waited or shit happens and I should have been here earlier, etc. ?
 
Either there are rules or there aren't and the TD shouldn't change them for a particular situation. People have been trying for decades to get pool recognized and established as a professional sport. If that is what is wanted, then the rules have to be enforced for everybody. In golf, you either make your tee off time or you are disqualified no matter who you are. Once you make an exception you start down a road with no end and accompanying you on that road will be a crowd of *****ing, moaning people,with heartbreaking stories as to why they should be exceptions.
 
mikeyfrost said:
Ship the final day schedule big money! I got my rally cap on today
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12:30 PM: Deuel vs Van Boening for Hot Seat
3:00 PM: 10 Ball Semi-Finals
6:00 PM: 10 Ball Finals
8:30 PM: Finals of 14.1 event. Race to 150.
ALL TIMES ARE U.S. PACIFIC TIME
STREAM GOES LIVE EACH DAY AT 12:20 PM


Winner of Haar vs Alcaide plays loser of Van Boening vs Deuel in the semi's at 3. Semi's are race to 9, finals are race to 11.

My man Shane plays like yesterday and its all academic. :D

Plans now are for the finals of the 14.1 side event to be played after the ten ball finals. We will do that as a bonus long as its not some crazy late start time. Theres that fluidity thing. If it works out the viewers get a freebie.
 
JCIN said:
12:30 PM: Deuel vs Van Boening for Hot Seat
3:00 PM: 10 Ball Semi-Finals
6:00 PM: 10 Ball Finals
8:30 PM: Finals of 14.1 event. Race to 150.
ALL TIMES ARE U.S. PACIFIC TIME
STREAM GOES LIVE EACH DAY AT 12:20 PM


Winner of Haar vs Alcaide plays loser of Van Boening vs Deuel in the semi's at 3. Semi's are race to 9, finals are race to 11.

My man Shane plays like yesterday and its all academic. :D

Plans now are for the finals of the 14.1 side event to be played after the ten ball finals. We will do that as a bonus long as its not some crazy late start time. Theres that fluidity thing. If it works out the viewers get a freebie.
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W got a hell of a final 4 this is going to be the shit today
 
Paul Dayton said:
Either there are rules or there aren't and the TD shouldn't change them for a particular situation. People have been trying for decades to get pool recognized and established as a professional sport. If that is what is wanted, then the rules have to be enforced for everybody. In golf, you either make your tee off time or you are disqualified no matter who you are. Once you make an exception you start down a road with no end and accompanying you on that road will be a crowd of *****ing, moaning people,with heartbreaking stories as to why they should be exceptions.
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The TD didnt change any rules. He made a common sense decision in an extremely unusual situation and in the end the forfeit was made. Earlier in the event Gabe no showed a match with Harriman on the feature table and all that was done was Danny went to another table and a replacement match was put on the feature table. No big deal. Because it wasnt a situation that warranted any consideration.

If I never hear pool compared to golf ever again it will be to soon. One of the reasons pro pool in the U.S. hasnt moved forward in 30 years is because its been trying to be like golf.
 
the sad part is there are some heartless pool players out there.

If Ralph was late because he was lazy then fine, but this was a completely different reason.

Justin is being nice to Corey IMO, Yes Corey had the right to say no, but is that the stand up thing to do NO.

I would bet guys like Daz would of waited.

The truth is Corey knew it would get him higher in the money and he would not have to do anything to get there.

Karma is a *****, one of these days Corey will need a favor and he won't be getting it.

If I was the one in Ralph's spot I would just hope there was a little understanding even though I am not a top pro.
 
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Rules are Rules???

Shane, Corey, Rodney, Mika, Thorsten, JA and other US based players go deep in a US tournament, and fly to the Philippines for a world

championship. They happen to be on the same plane, plane has trouble starting, they are delayed 24hrs (happens). They arrive 20 minutes late at

the tournament. Obviously all of them should be forfeited right? I can see all of the "rules are rules" guys creating 24 page threads of sorrow, because this

time it hit one of their favorite players.
 
spanky79 said:
the sad part is there are some heartless pool players out there.

If Ralph was late because he was lazy then fine, but this was a completely different reason.

Justin is being nice to Corey IMO, Yes Corey had the right to say no, but is that the stand up thing to do NO.

I would bet guys like Daz would of waited.

The truth is Corey knew it would get him higher in the money and he would not have to do anything to get there.

Karma is a *****, one of these days Corey will need a favor and he won't be getting it.

If I was the one in Ralph's spot I would just hope there was a little understanding even though I am not a top pro.

Ok, a revision, after reading that Ralph did not call them of course he should be forfeited, but I still believe Corey should of done what is right and took the later match. I amsure if it was him he would want the same courtesy.
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I dont know where you heard Ralf didnt call. Mark Griffin was on the phone with the rental car company trying to explain why they should do the paperwork at a later date. The TD's knew what was going on.
 
Rooolfl said:
Shane, Corey, Rodney, Mika, Thorsten, JA and other US based players go deep in a US tournament, and fly to the Philippines for a world

championship. They happen to be on the same plane, plane has trouble starting, they are delayed 24hrs (happens). They arrive 20 minutes late at

the tournament. Obviously all of them should be forfeited right? I can see all of the "rules are rules" creating 24 page threads of sorrow, because this

time it hit one of their favorite players.
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It could happen....AND HAS!!! One year at the U.S. Open an entire squad of FILIPINOS had their plane delayed getting to Norfolk. Since it was the first round and we had to play matches on two days, we moved all their matches back to the second day. Okay, now hate on me for moving Efren, Francisco, Lee Van, Rudolfo and Ronnie back so they wouldn't be forfeited. Sorry boys, I would do it again in the same situation. Read Justin's (JCIN) post! The people come to see these guys play. If there are no spectators, soon there won't be any tourney either.

On the other hand I have forfeited almost all the name players when they are late for a match. Ask Johnny, Francisco, Alex and Darren. It's happened to them as well as the "little" guys. When you are the TD, you have to make some judgement calls in the best interest of the event. That does not mean to show favoritism to any one player, but to make sure the event is run as fairly as possible for all involved. That's the way I roll, but I am always willing to listen to a logical point of view. I take pride in NOT being rigid in my thinking. As Justin said, you need to be flexible to a certain degree.

Once again, I have seen leeway given to top name tennis pros for medical emergencies, where their match is rescheduled. It is not without precedent in sports to do this.
 
JCIN said:
I dont know where you heard Ralf didnt call. Mark Griffin was on the phone with the rental car company trying to explain why they should do the paperwork at a later date. The TD's knew what was going on.
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thank you then I miss read I will revise . AGAIN
 
JCIN said:
Y... and sometimes stars get more rolls than the guy in the catering truck.
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I agree JCIN. Just go back to the NBA and the Jordan era for example. You don't think MJ had a special set of rules? Of course he did, infact the whole NBA doesn't play by the rules as they were written. It is a shame, but that's they way the world works. Life is not fair and never will be.

That being said, we should all strive to make it as fair and peaceful of a world as we can. But enviably certain people will try anything and everything to cheat or bend the rules to their own favor.

There is two things to look at in this situation. One, the best interest of the tournament and two, the best interest of pair play for the players. Any rational individual would agree this is a situation out of Ralf's control. It could happen to anyone.

As stated before, it is the tournament directors call not Corey's. If it clearly states in the rules "a player will forfeit under any circumstance" , then the correct call was made. I think it is a lousy rule and should be amended in future and left to the tournament director to make the final decision.

If a player cannot make it due to extenuation circumstances AND the tournament time table allows, then it should be rescheduled. Let's remember tournaments are usually played in rented arenas. I think this is the fairest way to do it for all parties, players, tournament directors, fans and streamers.
 
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