ABP or Barry Behrman: Which Side of the Fence Are You On?

[KoolKat9Lives]

I'm rubber, you're glue.

We are left to speculate on so much regarding how these two parties "got to here". ABP's multiple voices claim a bazillion months went by with no return communication from BB, BB claims a bazillion communications went unanswered. Whatever.

Seems to be the same old childish behavior so many of us know and despise.
Both sides have very valid positions to be addressed but appear emotionally incapable of cutting thru the clutter.

Sit the principals at a Fugging table, bury the horse manure and hammer it out like mature adults. Both sides are doing damage to all sides.

I feel like pool is stuck in Jr High.

I voted neither. This could have been avoided IMO.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

There does seem to be some hard feelings going on there, but I read on our forum that Johnny son is sick. He may be tending to family affairs when he's not competing or traveling.

If Johnny can find the time to respond to AZB postings, then surely he can find the time to respond to Barry's emails and phone calls. In addition, since Johnny is the President of the ABP, he has an obligation to represent the members by responding to Barry's attempts to negotiate a resolution to the US Open dispute.

If Johnny isn't up to the task, then it's time for him to resign. If other ABP board members think that a boycott of the US Open is going to solve anything, then it's time to replace them with other board members.

The ABP members may be great pool players but they are completely lacking in common sense by having this boycott.

 

[OneIron]

After much thought, I voted for Barry.
Lots of problems on both sides and with the game itself.

But how many pros want to stand up and say they've done more
for the game than Barry Berhman?

I agree. Barry is taking the lion's share of the risk. The players are pi$$ing the fans off by boycotting the premiere event of the year in a crap economy.

What are you guys thinking? Work with Barry. Give back to the fans. Grow the game... :frown:

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

Funny thing about this poll is you can be totally for the players and still justify voting for Barry and the Open on the basis that keeping the Open going as a premier event is what is in the best interests of the players.

 

[pt109]

Funny thing about this poll is you can be totally for the players and still justify voting for Barry and the Open on the basis that keeping the Open going as a premier event is what is in the best interests of the players.

I like this thought...and think it's too early for this thread to disappear.

 

[SFC9ball]

If Johnny can find the time to respond to AZB postings, then surely he can find the time to respond to Barry's emails and phone calls. In addition, since Johnny is the President of the ABP, he has an obligation to represent the members by responding to Barry's attempts to negotiate a resolution to the US Open dispute.

If Johnny isn't up to the task, then it's time for him to resign. If other ABP board members think that a boycott of the US Open is going to solve anything, then it's time to replace them with other board members.

The ABP members may be great pool players but they are completely lacking in common sense by having this boycott.

What you are failing to realize is JA has been advised by leagal counsel not to talk with BB, I am sure this is why he has not responded. Remember silence is GOLDEN but duct tape is SILVER and should have been used by several of the ABP Pro's.

 

[SFC9ball]

As I stated in another thread the APBs intentions are good, but their EXECUTION has been poor. Get a PROfessional speaker for the PROfessional shooters. I think they shot more than their toe off with this one.

 

[Black-Balled]

If Barry is paid up on his prior obligations, then game on.

If we keep on shi**in in our back yards the mess won't go away.

Danny Harrimans past, is that resolved?

I have seen this scenario quite a few times with the male pros, hopefully the outcome will be different than in the past.

I believe the situation with Harriman was unrelated to the US Open, rather it concerned his monies due from an event run by Barry's son.

Methinks someone else may be owed...from an Open past.

I am on the fence. I bet Barry has paid out more to pool players than anyone else...though True-dough might have him beat on paper. I also believe it reasonable for a casher at the Open to expect payment delivery within a week or so of finish.

Tuff call.

 

[itsfroze]

Perhaps the ABP or Johnny Archer would like to respond to Barry's statement (from July 7) below:

Shannon and I do not see how boycotting an event that is merely here for the players and fans of pool, as it is not a cash cow for us, is benefiting this sport or the fans who want to watch the players. I am not a wealthy man; in fact I too like some of the players am trying to simply make ends. However, I am doing everything in my power to strengthen the industry of pool. I cannot allow the U.S. Open to be threatened by individuals whom will not return a call or email. In fact, I personally called Johnny Archer 15-20 times in the past couple of weeks, and sent many emails to discuss this year's event, and not once did he answer or return any of my attempts. What kind of leader is this? I was never given the chance to acknowledge their demands, which I along with my daughter believe is completely unfair and simply "dirty pool." This is not a step in the right direction, Mr. Archer as the President, should be attempting to work with promoters instead of shutting them out, or else pool as we know it will no longer exist. I have been informed that some members of the ABP were demanding to be seeded into other events, and many made threats to walk if they were not. Promoters cannot give into bullies.​

Given that Johnny Archer has not responded to Barry's emails or phone calls recently, I'm inclined to be more sympathetic to Barry's side. In addition, if some of the ABP players are demanding that they be seeded into other events, then that smacks of extortion.

If you go to Run Out Radio on the home page and listen you will understand or at least have an idea why Johnny did not respond. However please don't take this to mean that in any way do I think that the ABP was right to handle the matter in the way that they did.

 

[itsfroze]

If Johnny can find the time to respond to AZB postings, then surely he can find the time to respond to Barry's emails and phone calls. In addition, since Johnny is the President of the ABP, he has an obligation to represent the members by responding to Barry's attempts to negotiate a resolution to the US Open dispute.

If Johnny isn't up to the task, then it's time for him to resign. If other ABP board members think that a boycott of the US Open is going to solve anything, then it's time to replace them with other board members.

The ABP members may be great pool players but they are completely lacking in common sense by having this boycott.

Listen to Run Out Radio on the home page, I agree that this has been handled poorly. They should sit down with a mediator and iron this all out ,that is if they can agree on one.

 

[dardusm]

I've voted on the BB side but not without some thought. I think the players have a very valid point. The problem that I have is that with the current state of the sport, I don't think it's in the best interest of players and fans to boycott the tournament. My guess is that ego's got involved on both parties and the casualty is going to be the game itself.

Barry must be upfront about realistic expectations about running a solvent tournament. If he needs to adjust the payouts then so be it. But, I have a feeling the players may not like that solution either. What needs to happen is for Barry and the ABP get together to find a solution. The most obvious one is to develop a payment schedule for the top 4 or so finishers with some sort of interest added on if it takes longer to pay.

I like what the ABP is trying to do but it will not work in the current environment. Promoting tournaments isn't a very lucrative business and most do it because of the game they love. What happens if Barry decides not to do the US Open? What happens if CSI doesn't work with the ABP? Seminole tour tells ABP not to attend? No events for the ABP to play, that's what will happen. Don't think the membership will like that, say good bye to the ABP. Get smart and work out an arrangement with Barry. If the sport grows, then the ABP will have more leverage.

 

[Terry Ardeno]

Barry Berhman is an icon as far as pool promoters go. He's at the very top of a very short list of men who have promoted such great events.
Mr. G. Mathews & Mr. R. Florence are pretty far up on that list as well, but neither of them has the longevity that Mr berhman has. Couple that with the fact that his U.S. Open is one of the two premeir events in all the world. He's earned his credentials as a great promoter and nobody can dispute how much he loves the players. He's always hugging and handshaking the players & is very player friendly. The man loves pool.

The players. The main reason I'm on AZB or 1P.org is to keep up with the goings on of the great players. I've been blessed to have also made some great friendships with other AZBers over the years. But I check in here every day & peek around at the threads to see what's happening in pooldom.

Naturally, we want pro pool to be bigger & more popular then it's current status. And along with that, most of us, given our way, would have pro pool players afforded the status of pro golfers. We wish they had big tournaments with big $$$$. But for a myriad of reasons, pro pool in America is stagnant. It can't ALL be blamed on men like Don Mackey. And I personally feel that it's wrong to take out their frustrations on the one man who has been rock steady for pro pool in America, Barry Berhman. Why don't they all boycott the Moheghan Sun for downsizing the "International Challenge of Champions"? I can understand them wanting guaranteed monies & all, but they're combating the one man who has supported the players for nearly 40 years now! I know what I'm trying to convey, but I know I'm not writing my thoughts exactly as I want them to come out. What I mean is that why now & why against Barry Berhman? To show solidarity? To throw down the gauntlet to other promoters?

Does anybody think that what the pro players are doing will entice others to jump in & promote big tournaments? Or will them boycotting Barry Berhman cause others to just stay away from pro pool in America?

I voted on Barry's side. I love so many of the pro players, but I think their strategy is wrong. They're gnawing at a hand that's fed them for a long time.

One more thing. We're seeing Barry struggle with this boycott thing now. What if he just says "Enough! I quite! No more U.S. Open!" and he's driven to retire from promoting?

Then what? The players will pull together & promote one themselves?

I don't think so.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

Listen to Run Out Radio on the home page, I agree that this has been handled poorly. They should sit down with a mediator and iron this all out ,that is if they can agree on one.

To say that the ABP has handled this poorly would be a understatement. The ABP's handling of this has been a complete embarrassment to their fledgling organization and to pool fans.

Everyone should try to listen to the two interviews (45 minutes long), one of the ABP representative Rodney Morris and the other of Barry. Here's the link: http://hw.libsyn.com/p/f/4/8/f48cdc...2e520ed4c255&l_sid=26098&l_eid=&l_mid=2647743

According to the interview with Barry, the payout fund is about 180K. Most of the money from various parties does not come in until the week of the tournament so Barry is not in a position to pay out all of the prize funds immediately. There's no way that Barry can meet the ABP player's demands for a escrow fund and a immediate payout as the funds are not available in advance.

 

[Itsnotme]

*neither* everybody sucks :thumbup:

That was far from a mature post, I know. But it is what it is.

 

[Celtic]

I voted "on the fence" because I do actually see both sides but the pros have a way of losing my support with their posts, the ABP should hire a public relations guy to do their posting for them in a far more political and endearing fashion. ATM they are their own worst enemy every time they make a post.

 

[Bankit]

The Poll

I dont say a lot on here and all these post about this situation is the main reason why I dont. But in this case I will say something ,seems like all the rest of the membership has, so why not.
If a promoter doesnt have the money to pay what he advertises then he shouldnt advertise fasley. If the players have to post up, then the promoters should as well. I vote with the players. You work, you get paid,You advertise what you will pay ,
then you pay that amount. And pay when the work is done, not months later. Unless you advertise that will be the payout plan.

Maybe Barry needs a few post dated checks in his entry fees, when the shoe is on the other foot, he will see what its like to not get what he wants,when he wants it.
Doesnt make any difference how long you've been in business,either you have the cash to stay in business or you dont. Pool will be played with or without Mr. Berman and his daughter. And maybe the players will be paid on time.
Thats my 2 cents. Later Guys, shoot well. Jim Milam(Kick02)

 

[K.Mcphee]

I don't know the the situation entirely to give an opinion or vote for a side. All I know is everyone in pool is hurting. Pros have been starving for decades, and they are the hardest working people. Most of them lose in the long run playing tournaments. The tops pros do ok, but how is that right when we have hundreds of brands all over the world?

There was a thread a year back where Jay Helfert expressed how he was able to make money through promoting and running tournaments. But never has there been much of a chance for the players. If you score 8 in an event beating out hundreds of extremely talented guys, you will still get nothing.

If event coordinators aren't making money, then we need more sponsors. And who wouldn't want to brand a table with there logo at the "US open"?.

Maybe its time to ask somebody like "coca-cola" or " pepsi" for spnsorship. If rejected, find out what it takes to represent someone like them.

 

[Vyc]

I voted for Barry.

Kudos to Barry for keeping the US Open alive in this bad economy. I truly hope the ABP reconsiders their position and drop the boycott.

 

[watchez]

The $15K he pays to rent the bleachers - post date that check. That would help in a lot of the players money being paid at the time of service.

 

[PoolSharkAllen]

Perhaps the ABP or Johnny Archer would like to respond to Barry's statement (from July 7) below:

Shannon and I do not see how boycotting an event that is merely here for the players and fans of pool, as it is not a cash cow for us, is benefiting this sport or the fans who want to watch the players. I am not a wealthy man; in fact I too like some of the players am trying to simply make ends. However, I am doing everything in my power to strengthen the industry of pool. I cannot allow the U.S. Open to be threatened by individuals whom will not return a call or email. In fact, I personally called Johnny Archer 15-20 times in the past couple of weeks, and sent many emails to discuss this year's event, and not once did he answer or return any of my attempts. What kind of leader is this? I was never given the chance to acknowledge their demands, which I along with my daughter believe is completely unfair and simply "dirty pool." This is not a step in the right direction, Mr. Archer as the President, should be attempting to work with promoters instead of shutting them out, or else pool as we know it will no longer exist. I have been informed that some members of the ABP were demanding to be seeded into other events, and many made threats to walk if they were not. Promoters cannot give into bullies.​

Given that Johnny Archer has not responded to Barry's emails or phone calls recently, I'm inclined to be more sympathetic to Barry's side.

Here's the ABP's mission statement:

... to continually improve the sport of pocket billiards as measured by the Fans, Tournament Promoters, Sponsors and Players. "We will accomplish our goals through a relentless commitment to open and clear two way communications, by constantly searching for opportunities for cooperation and mutually beneficial partnerships and by making fact based decisions using industry input and research. Always, with the good of our sport and it's constituents being foremost in our thoughts and actions."​

The ABP is not living up to their mission statement, especially the parts highlighted in red above. The fact that Johnny has not responded to Barry's emails and phone calls is evidence that they are not committed to open and clear two way communications. In addition, the ABP's attorney has told their members to muzzle it...so where's the open communications? By engaging in this boycott, the ABP has demonstrated that they are not seeking a mutually beneficial partnership with Barry.