An amazing match finish

Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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Our friend Scaramouche pointed out the finals of a top snooker tournament on Youtube. The final three shots of the match are something the likes of which we will not see again. Here it is, pared down to just one shot before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyD4WJ7Woqk&t=8m12s

O'Sullivan starts with a good safety. Ali Carter tries a thin hit to return to the same rail but misses. Some points about the rules for those not used to Snooker: If he hits the black first, which nearly happens, he loses 7 points -- failure to hit red is only 4. On the first foul Carter is charged with a "foul and a miss" which means that not only did he foul, but because he could reasonably be expected to hit the ball, he can be forced to replay the shot. O'Sullivan decides that he has no good shot, and has Carter replay the shot. Another rule is that if you foul three times in a situation where you aren't really hooked, you lose the frame (rack).

For those not familiar with the players, both have had "maximums" (147 points in a row, clearing the table) in the World Championships, which is quite rare, and they have done it the same year.
 
That's a great clip Bob thanks for sharing.


Do you think the misses are because of perception error (i.e. not seeing the shot correctly) or some small mechanical error with the stroke?
 
Lay of the nap. I could be wrong, but I flirted a little with snooker while I was in Japan, and I seem to remember the nap actually had a 'lay' like a golf green which meant (I think) shooting down table away from the break area and crossing the center of the table, the CB would actually take a little bit of a run in favor of the short end rail. Maybe he overestimated how much the nap would affect the cb and aimed more to the wide side than he needed?

Disclosure: First to admit that I don't play snooker, don't remember much about the game, so I'm going only on what I think I remember being explained to me at one time.

dave
 
dr9ball said:
That's a great clip Bob thanks for sharing.


Do you think the misses are because of perception error (i.e. not seeing the shot correctly) or some small mechanical error with the stroke?
Click to expand...
Earlier in the match, which is remarkable because both players were struggling to make a ball, O'Sullivan tried a long, slow safe the length of the table shooting from about where Carter was shooting. He was trying to hit a red about half full. He ended up hitting it half full but on the wrong side! If the table rolled the same way for Carter's shot, it could have caused the miss, especially since he was trying to just feather the ball. I suspect his alignment and stroke were perfect on all three shots for a level table, and his only error was not adjusting.
 
Ali Carter has a lot of heart.
I've seen other players in this spot hit the red thick on the third attempt.
He tried to hit it perfect, fully realizing the penalty.

..and did you notice how consistent he was? Whitey hit about the same
spot on the side pocket jaw every time.
That shot is tricky on a 'directional nap' cloth, whitey doesn't go straight.
 
Snooker aiming and nap or . . . .

That is pretty amazing. 3 shots exactly the same ( last one a tad harder).

As an old mechanic - my thoughts would not be on the nap of the cloth.
It would be 'where are the slates from'?

Especially with the explanation from Bob on a previous shot.

But - the table is 12 feet and the balls are smaller and lighter. Stuff happens!

Mark griffin
 
Bob Jewett said:
Earlier in the match, which is remarkable because both players were struggling to make a ball, O'Sullivan tried a long, slow safe the length of the table shooting from about where Carter was shooting. He was trying to hit a red about half full. He ended up hitting it half full but on the wrong side! If the table rolled the same way for Carter's shot, it could have caused the miss, especially since he was trying to just feather the ball. I suspect his alignment and stroke were perfect on all three shots for a level table, and his only error was not adjusting.
Click to expand...

Bob:

I agree. One thing that most pool players (and most readers here) fail to recognize, is that a snooker table's cloth is a nap cloth, with an installed nap "direction" (i.e. head to foot). It's easy for most pool players, who play all day long on worsted cloth (like Simonis), to underestimate the effects that the nap has on a slow traveling ball. Ali didn't properly adjust for the fact that he was shooting "with the grain" of the nap. And amazingly, he repeated the error three consecutive times. (So accurate was his lack of adjustment, that the cue ball hit the rounded knuckle of the side pocket in EXACTLY the same way, to cause that cue ball to finish in almost EXACTLY the same position. We're talking within a ball's diameter each time, missing the black by the same millimeter each time.)

So with the fact that the cue ball finished in such a precise position in all three attempts, I don't think it was stroke/mechanics error. Rather, I feel it was an aiming/compensation error.

-Sean
 
That may be the most unbelievable think I have ever seen in any billiard game.
 
previously on the same match, Carter need a snooker, he executes a perfect difficult snooker behind the black, but unfortunately banks the pink in the middle pocket. I noticed Carter got pretty lucky during the match with some lucky rolls, he missed some safety and shots but leaving virtually nothing to Ronnie.
 
Thanks Bob.

In my view, this was equivalent to putting a bunch of monkeys in a room filled with typewriters, and having them produce the complete works of William Shakespeare...by accident.

Is it real? Or is it Photoshop? Very weird....and enjoyable.
 
Zhero said:
this thread links to the stupid stuff Maniac posted
Click to expand...
I guess you mean the thread about pros maybe doing the same stupid stuff as amateurs. I don't think many amateurs have the consistency to make the same mistake as Carter. They would have hit something by the third shot.
 
Blue Hog ridr said:
3 identical shots. Wow.
What are the chances of that?
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The previous most remarkable shot sequence I've seen was this (IIRC):

Oliver Ortman was playing Ernesto Dominguez in Las Vegas, maybe at the BCA Open. Oliver won a game leaving him needing two more. He broke the rack and since it was a Sardo-sponsored event, the nine ball just sat there. The six ball made the grand tour and returned to the rack area to knock the nine in putting Oliver on the hill. Oliver broke with the six in the same position, and -- you guessed it -- the six followed the same path and knocked the nine in the corner for the match win.

And some people don't think nine ball is broken.
CropperCapture[25].png
 
Mark Griffin said:
That is pretty amazing. 3 shots exactly the same ( last one a tad harder).

As an old mechanic - my thoughts would not be on the nap of the cloth.
It would be 'where are the slates from'?

Especially with the explanation from Bob on a previous shot.

But - the table is 12 feet and the balls are smaller and lighter. Stuff happens!

Mark griffin
Click to expand...
Mark.....I think Sean and Bob Jewett might find this interesting also.

The slates tend to be good...1.75 inches thick and the table mechanics
there are top rate.
But nap is always a problem...because it is inconsistent.....the rolls will
change as the match goes on because of finger marks from bridge hands.

I showed this video to Jimmy Wych and he reminded me of another factor.
..the third shot by Ali was FOLLOWING the line in the cloth left by the first
two shots....the thicker the cloth, the bigger the problem.

I hate thick cloth and directional nap...carambole has it right
 
In a game requiring great precision with lighter balls and longer distances why does snooker continue to use a directional cloth?

Remarkable sequence...
 
I was under the impression modern clothes were pretty nap free? They're certainly less nappy than they were. Either way, the third shot by Ali was unforgivable. I've seen players smash it and hope in that position, often with good outcomes.
 
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