Cue Ball Control is Overrated!!!

[BasementDweller]

Name 1 great player that does not have excellent qball control,can u ,i cant!

You got me there.:help:

I said cue ball control was overrated just to stir up some interest. It should be obvious that you need some level of cue ball control to excel at this game. I don't really mean that it should be abandoned altogether. I was really just trying to make the point that ball pocketing is supreme! The beginning and the end is ball pocketing. You must be confident that you can pocket the ball then you can learn to control whitey. It shouldn't really be the other way around. That's all I'm saying.

I guess you either get it or you don't. I often find myself in the minority on this site and I may find myself in that position (no pun intended) again.

 

[The Chinchilla]

Lets think about 8 ball. If you are off by 1mm in position, that could be the end of your run and turn at the table.

This is one aspect that makes 8 ball tough.

I can see where playing only 9 ball one can think that position play is overrated. But once you venture to the upper levels of the other pool games, the value of excellent CB controls becomes more evident.

Even in straight, if you do not get the position you wanted for the CB when playing a safe, you could be sitting there for awhile.

Same in 1pocket.

I've said that a shot has two parts, making the OB and putting the CB where you want. They are not separate parts as generally believed.

I guess my point got lost between the lines.

If you can reach a skill of 10 in cb control, and a player is at 8, there isn't a lot of room to move up there. You practice, yet you aren't really seeing any dividends.

To the OP's point, and I agree, if you can reach a skill of 10 in shotmaking, maybe that same above player is at a 6 (I think this is a very common phenomena, players being better at cb control), he can gain immensely with say 1 month of shotmaking practice. His point is, everybody focuses on cb only, as if they will never have a hard shot. The real truth is, everybody handles the cb well (the lost point in my post), but its those that pocket balls extremely well that win.

 

[BasementDweller]

I guess my point got lost between the lines.

If you can reach a skill of 10 in cb control, and a player is at 8, there isn't a lot of room to move up there. You practice, yet you aren't really seeing any dividends.

To the OP's point, and I agree, if you can reach a skill of 10 in shotmaking, maybe that same above player is at a 6 (I think this is a very common phenomena, players being better at cb control), he can gain immensely with say 1 month of shotmaking practice. His point is, everybody focuses on cb only, as if they will never have a hard shot. The real truth is, everybody handles the cb well (the lost point in my post), but its those that pocket balls extremely well that win.

Look at the evidence..... strickland, sigel, reyes, bustamante, archer, schmidt. I think dick lane could probably move the cb on par with most of those guys, but he never won. Grady is perhaps another great example.

Nice clarification. I like it.

Looks like we are all alone.:thumbup:

 

[The Chinchilla]

Nice clarification. I like it.

Looks like we are all alone.:thumbup:

I just agree, I have seen the best players practice extremely tough shots... frozen to the rail etc. Earl loved to practice these.

And your point, weaker player don't do this as much (i think that's your point). I totally agree. They falsely assume that if they work on cb all day all their problems will be solved.

 

[King T]

Shot making???

Hey Chincilla, What about Buddy Hall and as for Grady, he did win all the time, he got the money not the trophy!! Archer also plays great, not good position, I mean Great!!

The best in the world have always been position players..., SVB, Earl, Stevenson, ok they can make any shot, but watch the racks that they dont get out and it will be based on bad position play.

Shot making is important, but it goes way up when you stay in line!!!

 

[ThePoliteSniper]

Dude. Potting skills and cueball control go hand in hand. As you said, your fundamentals improved. When you are able to hit the objectball precisely at the intended spot, then it's also easier to predict the path of the cueball after contact.

-> Fundamentals are underrated.

 

[PoolBum]

Then about 2 years ago or so I really assessed where my game was at. When I considered how my ball pocketing abilities compared to my cue ball control I realized that for my level of play I control the cue ball way better than I pocket balls.

I don't quite understand what you're saying here, because cueball control and pocketing balls are two sides of the same coin.

For one thing, if you don't pocket the object ball the cueball ends up in a different place than if you do pocket the object ball. And you're pocketing the ball with the cueball, so part of what it means to control the cueball well just is to be able to pocket the ball.

 

[The Chinchilla]

Hey Chincilla, What about Buddy Hall and as for Grady, he did win all the time, he got the money not the trophy!! Archer also plays great, not good position, I mean Great!!

The best in the world have always been position players..., SVB, Earl, Stevenson, ok they can make any shot, but watch the racks that they dont get out and it will be based on bad position play.

Shot making is important, but it goes way up when you stay in line!!!

Maybe my points haven't been clear, forgive me :banghead:

I'll end with this.... the wisest, most profound thing any great player ever told me was this one sentence......

"IF YOU DON'T MAKE TOUGH SHOTS YOU AINT GONNA BEAT NOBODY"

I have never heard anything more true than that in pool. And i'm not talking about beating bangers here, I hope that is obvious.

The point really is, tone down the cb practice, and start learning how to pocket balls. That's it. But if you don't want to, that's fine too

 

[BasementDweller]

Dude. Potting skills and cueball control go hand in hand. As you said, your fundamentals improved. When you are able to hit the objectball precisely at the intended spot, then it's also easier to predict the path of the cueball after contact.

-> Fundamentals are underrated.

My point is - they don't go hand in hand. As you get better at one (cue ball control) the less you work on the other (potting). I know that is a very simple concept, but it is one that I overlooked when I started out - youngsters take heed!!!

 

[ThePoliteSniper]

Both, cueball control and shotmaking, require good fundamentals.

 

[roberthans]

Whitey

Cue ball control is important but if you don't make your object ball even the best leave doesn't get you an other shot.

 

[berko]

So you (like all of us) got good fast at pocketing balls. Then you realized (and were told) that cue ball control was vital to moving on to the next level (you learn how much you can juice a cue ball, then put most of that juice back in the bottle). You busted your hump learning how to keep a leash on the whitey, then believed your shot making suffered.

This is where I'm at.

I'll often miss the easy shot while getting good position. I know I have to practice shotmaking, but i guess the question is how little attention to give to cue ball control while Im practicing potting balls.


It seems counterproductive to forget about whitey altogether....

 

[mantis99]

Interesting thought, however, I don't think any decent instructor would ever give the type of advice you got. I think most would say to develop a rock solid repeatable stroke way before worrying at all about CB control. Then you usually hear to play center ball and use the tangent line, maybe using follow and draw, but staying away from side spin until you have mastered the others. After that would come all out CB control.

You still hear good instructors saying that you should do your best to avoid having to play anymore english than necessary. Either way, a good stroke should always come first.

The bottom line is that most people work on being able to make balls, and then CB control, and for most people, the ability to actually control the path of the CB and the speed it goes is what separates bangers from good player, and good players from the elite.

 

[measureman]

Interesting thought, however, I don't think any decent instructor would ever give the type of advice you got. I think most would say to develop a rock solid repeatable stroke way before worrying at all about CB control. Then you usually hear to play center ball and use the tangent line, maybe using follow and draw, but staying away from side spin until you have mastered the others. After that would come all out CB control.

You still hear good instructors saying that you should do your best to avoid having to play anymore english than necessary. Either way, a good stroke should always come first.

The bottom line is that most people work on being able to make balls, and then CB control, and for most people, the ability to actually control the path of the CB and the speed it goes is what separates bangers from good player, and good players from the elite.

Well said.

 

[BasementDweller]

Interesting thought, however, I don't think any decent instructor would ever give the type of advice you got. I think most would say to develop a rock solid repeatable stroke way before worrying at all about CB control. Then you usually hear to play center ball and use the tangent line, maybe using follow and draw, but staying away from side spin until you have mastered the others. After that would come all out CB control.

You still hear good instructors saying that you should do your best to avoid having to play anymore english than necessary. Either way, a good stroke should always come first.

The bottom line is that most people work on being able to make balls, and then CB control, and for most people, the ability to actually control the path of the CB and the speed it goes is what separates bangers from good player, and good players from the elite.

Think so? I don't. What do you think seperates a great bar box player from a great 9' table player? Do you think it is cue ball control? I don't. They don't pocket balls good enough on the big table to compete with them.

 

[Jaden]

They don't run 8 because they pocket balls well....

I don't care what anybody says, the people that win are the people that pocket balls well (ie have the best offense).

Think about 1pocket... a guy moves moves moves then runs 3. The shooter gets one shot and runs 8.

Straight pool... good ball pocketer continues his run off a very difficult shot, the cb guy is crapping his pants in that same spot.

I think shooting is worth a lot more than most think.

Plus, when a guy makes tough shots, nothing makes the opponent crap more than that (cb movement does not do this nearly as much; although maybe it should). Check out some Mark Tadd matches if you doubt this stuff.

They run eight because they pocket balls well AND they control whitey well.

Should you concentrate ONLY on controlling whitey???? absolutely not...

Until your potting ability is greater than 90% you shouldn't even be trying side spin...

But if you only focus on potting ability then you are never likely to be better than a b player at best.

Jaden

 

[Jaden]

name ONE GREAT barbox player that isn't also an A player on the big table...

Think so? I don't. What do you think seperates a great bar box player from a great 9' table player? Do you think it is cue ball control? I don't. They don't pocket balls good enough on the big table to compete with them.

Hell, name the best barbox players and I promise you they are also tops on the big table...

And absolutely the best barbox players are the ones that control the CB best.

SVB, best eightball bar box player... best CB control on the barbox.

Jaden

 

[Jaden]

not only that...

Interesting thought, however, I don't think any decent instructor would ever give the type of advice you got. I think most would say to develop a rock solid repeatable stroke way before worrying at all about CB control. Then you usually hear to play center ball and use the tangent line, maybe using follow and draw, but staying away from side spin until you have mastered the others. After that would come all out CB control.

You still hear good instructors saying that you should do your best to avoid having to play anymore english than necessary. Either way, a good stroke should always come first.

The bottom line is that most people work on being able to make balls, and then CB control, and for most people, the ability to actually control the path of the CB and the speed it goes is what separates bangers from good player, and good players from the elite.

Cueball control is not necessarily shooting with spin.

Hell I can get almost anywhere on the table using only tangent, draw and follow, without affecting the aim hardly at all....

Anyone who thinks that top level play can be achieved with only ball pocketing skills is a fool.

Jaden

 

[Cdryden]

I think that in the beginning you focused on pocketing balls. Just about everyone starts by learning to pocket balls. Cue ball control is a non-thought and you just bang around playing 8 ball and hoping that you get a decent shot that you can make.

It becomes very quickly apparent when playing other players that your shot making is improving, but your cueball control is lousy. As you should, you work on cueball control and having some understanding of how the cueball reacts and how to move it around freely. This skill requires a lot of attention and becomes quickly fascinating.

If you've come full circle and gotten so good at cueball control that your shot making now pales in comparison, then yeah, you need to work on your shotmaking. I am sure you've noticed that the GREAT players are generally good shotmakers AND have a remarkable control over the cueball.

If you don't learn all of the aspects of the game then your game will suffer and won't continue to improve.

That doesn't mean that cueball control is overrated. It just means that you focused on it for too long and needed to catch up the rest of your game.

This is exactly right. If you are going to be successful at pool you need to be good at both. Shot making will only get you so far without being able to control whitey. And all the control in the world is useless if you can't make the shot. Good reply laser.

 

[BasementDweller]

They run eight because they pocket balls well AND they control whitey well.

Should you concentrate ONLY on controlling whitey???? absolutely not...

Until your potting ability is greater than 90% you shouldn't even be trying side spin...

But if you only focus on potting ability then you are never likely to be better than a b player at best.

Jaden

I think just about everybody knows this. I was just trying to hype my thread a bit and in the process maybe encourage some to reexamine their shotmaking ability. I had plateaued in this department and I finally realized to the betterment of my game that my #1 goal in my practice time was to become a better shotmaker.