What am I missing?

W

weegee3

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Been buiding cues for about 4 years now and often I get a call from friends to repair or replace sumthin' on the cue. Given that I was a rookie I would do it for free or some chump change just to get the practice. So now, I'm pretty good at it and I want to get a few bucks for my workmanship. So I get the blue book out to see what my established counterparts are charging and that is where I'm misssing something.
An electrician or a plumber will hit me for $120 or more to walk through the door but it seems that cuemakers will for example, remove a busted butt cap, replace it, cut and sand it to size and put a finish on it and get an average of $50.00 for the work. Yes there are some higher but rarely did I find a cuemaker who listed a price for such a job that paid for his time and talent.
Put a tip on for $10.00? Unless you are doing 20 or more at a time, what's the point?
It just does not seem to make sense to me if it's a business.
Is it just a hobby for us and a a few bucks here and there to pay the electric bill?
Tell me someone is making a living will ya'.
I fear I already know the answer but........
Weegee
 
Not being a cue maker, but this general statement applies.

If you spend money on it, it's a hobby. If you make money on it, it's a job.

PS I had a plumber at the house last night. He showed me what to do and said it would save me $300. I just bought the part for $17. He was right.
 
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The plumber made the house call, is the major difference. He had travel time getting there. If I set up at a tournament I charge a little more than I do if they are bringing it to me. Yes there are far more profitable things to do than work on cues, but to be honest I would rather change a few tips and ferrules and make a $100 profit in an hour or two than to come take your sewage pipes apart,fix them and go home smelling like you know what. So working on cues does have it's advantages also. :)
 
weegee3 said:
Been buiding cues for about 4 years now and often I get a call from friends to repair or replace sumthin' on the cue. Given that I was a rookie I would do it for free or some chump change just to get the practice. So now, I'm pretty good at it and I want to get a few bucks for my workmanship. So I get the blue book out to see what my established counterparts are charging and that is where I'm misssing something.
An electrician or a plumber will hit me for $120 or more to walk through the door but it seems that cuemakers will for example, remove a busted butt cap, replace it, cut and sand it to size and put a finish on it and get an average of $50.00 for the work. Yes there are some higher but rarely did I find a cuemaker who listed a price for such a job that paid for his time and talent.
Put a tip on for $10.00? Unless you are doing 20 or more at a time, what's the point?
It just does not seem to make sense to me if it's a business.
Is it just a hobby for us and a a few bucks here and there to pay the electric bill?
Tell me someone is making a living will ya'.
I fear I already know the answer but........
Weegee
Click to expand...

The fact that you give your work away may have something to do with this.
The fact that you were using your client's cues to practice on concerns me.
That's what scrap-wood is for. Once you have confidence in your methods & abilities,
you can charge what would be considered a fair price for your area.
This is not a business for making a lot of money though repairs pay more than building.
FWIW, some do make a comfortable living doing this and I understand that not everyone can.
I consider myself blessed.
KJ
 
I'm not knocking cuemaker. I can't think of anything that would bring me more satisfaction as a hobby than building cues. I get a lot of joy from the process and doing the work for friends and chariible causes. In the meantime I get a few bucks to cover the cost of wood and parts etc.
I get a charge out of improving my skill level, often with the assistanc of friends like Cueman. (Bless his heart)
It just seems like those that excel at their craft and provide a skilled talent should get a lot more than the prices advertised by many in the bluebook. It's one thing to do a repair job for a friend but some dipstick who you have never met before wants a cue refinished and wrapped for $125.00 or less puzzles me. Maybe it's a loss leader for them, perhaps.
 
weegee3 said:
I'm not knocking cuemaker. I can't think of anything that would bring me more satisfaction as a hobby than building cues. I get a lot of joy from the process and doing the work for friends and chariible causes. In the meantime I get a few bucks to cover the cost of wood and parts etc.
I get a charge out of improving my skill level, often with the assistanc of friends like Cueman. (Bless his heart)
It just seems like those that excel at their craft and provide a skilled talent should get a lot more than the prices advertised by many in the bluebook. It's one thing to do a repair job for a friend but some dipstick who you have never met before wants a cue refinished and wrapped for $125.00 or less puzzles me. Maybe it's a loss leader for them, perhaps.
Click to expand...

Do yourself a favor and don't do favors. Don't ask for any either. They are highly overrated. Good work is good work. Be it for a friend or a "dipstick", charge accordingly for the work you perform.
 
I may be off, but if you've been doing it for 4 years, it's time to charge full price. There are only so many different ways to install a tip and/or ferrule.
 
KJ
If I infered that I would practice on someone else's cue without knowing what I was doing, I apologize. I did not read that in my original post but you apparently perceived that. I'm sorry that I did not make myself clear.

I am very fond of cuemakers and players and even the characters that one meets in while involved in the game. On the contrary, I've had a love for the game for over sixty years when I was too young to get into a pool room but could only look through the window and wish I was old enough to get in there.
I just thinl that the money one gets for the skill level employed does not seem to calculate. Some, such as yourself appear to have made a profitable business at it. Good for you. However that was not my point.
Getting $10.00 for a tip or $20.00 for a ferrule job is chump change weather you do it at home or at a tournement. BUt maybe it's a volume thing. I'm just getting some views on the issue to better understand it
Weegee
 
I just started smoking crack......er....i mean learning to build cues, but ive been doing tips for a while. I charge a little less than anyone around, that way i get most of the business. I might not make as much per tip, but ive done 17 tips in an afternoon before so i was getting quite a bit of work. Since the crack, i mean cuemaking has started, i have deferred most of the repair work elsewhere because im totally obssessed with learning how to make a straight, good looking, good playing cue. I charge $8 for lepros, elkmaster, etc, and the price goes up for layered and more expensive tips. The way i look at it, im in this for the love, not the money. Im very fortunate to have a good job that supports my addictions, lol.

Joe
 
Well if you think it's bad working on cues. Try painting classic cars for a hobby. With cues you only have to deal with pool players. Everone has an old car or truck they want painted. Years ago I was painting $100,000 Peterbilt trucks during the day then going home and painting $100,000 Shelbys at night. I was always getting offers form people who would let me practice on thier old truck if I wanted. For free of course!

Time you learned to Just so NO, but thanks for offering!!

Larry
 
weegee3 said:
KJ
If I infered that I would practice on someone else's cue without knowing what I was doing, I apologize. I did not read that in my original post but you apparently perceived that. I'm sorry that I did not make myself clear.

I am very fond of cuemakers and players and even the characters that one meets in while involved in the game. On the contrary, I've had a love for the game for over sixty years when I was too young to get into a pool room but could only look through the window and wish I was old enough to get in there.
I just thinl that the money one gets for the skill level employed does not seem to calculate. Some, such as yourself appear to have made a profitable business at it. Good for you. However that was not my point.
Getting $10.00 for a tip or $20.00 for a ferrule job is chump change weather you do it at home or at a tournement. BUt maybe it's a volume thing. I'm just getting some views on the issue to better understand it
Weegee
Click to expand...

You're very correct, it's a volume thing. The more you do, the more you make.
Doing two tips and a ferrule in a week wouldn't keep most guys in coffee let alone beer.
If your work is really elite, then you can justify price accordingly.
You didn't get to that level without a lot of work, time & developed skill.
It's debatable whether under-cutting your own price to generate business is a good idea.
I think the key is to just do better work than everyone else. That's a great generator.

Yeah, I guess I did mis-read your post, at least the intent of that statement.
Given the number of years you've been around the game, I'd expect you have a very good
understanding of what the player/client expects in return for his hard-earned dollars.
I've always held the philosophy that no matter what I think of, or the value of,
a client's cue, to him it means alot. To some, the world. I see it every week.
Doesn't matter, I'll give his cue the same attention as I would as if I were working on a Black Boar.
To the beholder, the value is the same.

Of course, your competition is a consideration. Unless relocating is in your future,
let it be known that your work is the best in town and you don't have to say a word doing it.
Let your work speak for itself.

Good Luck, KJ
 
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There's not a ton of money in cues!
I have been doing repairs for a dozen years or do.... Recently been making jump cues.
They jump a ton, which is why they are selling.
I also have my own plumbing company.... So I can see a correlation between the 2 examples :)
I charge a hundred an hour for plumbing.
I can't get nearly that to do a buttcap! And it takes nearly an hour to do a buttcap right?
I charge what I can for cue repairs, but it is a hobby.
A hobby that pays for itself and also pays for most of my pool habit :)

Unless you are traveling around to do tournaments,
There really isn't more than play money in tips.
I mean a guy can make 5-600 on a good day,
But if I only made that much at my real job I would be madder than a hornet!

It's hard to quantify money charged per repair to an hourly wage, it just doesn't work.
I tried to figure out the total man hours involved on a jumper.... Needless to say it was more than 2 ;)
The way I see it, if you want to make real money with cues..... I don't know what to say after that? I don't know if you can?
I do it because I like it, I enjoy spinning shafts, puts a little extra cash in my pockets, but I can make way more money at work.
I hope I don't come off as a negative nancy but any cue work being done by a competent repair person is always, always going to be a great deal, no matter the cost.
Unlike other professions, cue guys get paid for what they do, not what we know!
 
In my area, most people have $70-$150 cues and won't pay $40 for a moori tip. I don't blame them. Not knocking the tip, just price of tip compared to price of cue. Some people will pay a great deal to get their 'baby' up and running again, but then treat that same 'baby' horribly right away. I just shake my head....
It comes down to what will the masses pay for the work a cue repairman will perform. You offer a wrap for $15 everyone will be on the train, even with a $40 cue, but charge the correct amount of $40-$50 well, the list gets short quite fast.
It isn't a field of work to get rich by, it's a field of loving what you do and covering your costs in the process, IMO. I think the biggest reward is seeing the person that, either bought your cue, or got that repair done by you, winning a tourny, or a really big match, knowing that you had a hand in it. The good people will ALWAYS remember what you did for them, no matter of the cost, big or small.
Dave
 
Dave38 said:
In my area, most people have $70-$150 cues and won't pay $40 for a moori tip.

wow! dave youre in the high rent district.
i love the guys that show up with a $12 marlboro cue and want to "fix it up"
ivory buttcap & joint
maybe a leather wrap
and they THINK it all can be done for $50
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
i used to be patient and explain the work involved and the costs
now, i just hand them back the cue and walk away :rolleyes:
why bother?




I don't blame them. Not knocking the tip, just price of tip compared to price of cue. Some people will pay a great deal to get their 'baby' up and running again, but then treat that same 'baby' horribly right away. I just shake my head....
It comes down to what will the masses pay for the work a cue repairman will perform. You offer a wrap for $15 everyone will be on the train, even with a $40 cue, but charge the correct amount of $40-$50 well, the list gets short quite fast.
It isn't a field of work to get rich by, it's a field of loving what you do and covering your costs in the process, IMO. I think the biggest reward is seeing the person that, either bought your cue, or got that repair done by you, winning a tourny, or a really big match, knowing that you had a hand in it. The good people will ALWAYS remember what you did for them, no matter of the cost, big or small.
Dave
Click to expand...
....................
 
Sounds like you're going to have to work out a plan to tell your friends the price is going up.
One way is to complain that its just not worth your trouble to do tips and ferrules anymore
and that part of your operation is over. Then wait for the screaming and pleading.

I was fortunate for a couple of decades that one of my best freinds put tips on my cue for free.
In turn I was always there to help with recover work...., fed him tools and other stuff. Just my way
to pay without an argument which Would Happen.

I'm a little strange. I just had a tip put on last week and didn't ask the price. I just told him what I wanted.
He called when it was done and told me what I owed. Then I paid him. He also undercharged me.:confused:

As said before volume is the key to selling low dollar services. Obvious. And quality will get you the volume.
But never forget It only takes 5 seconds to lower your price and 5 years to raise it.
 
Repairing cues is what I do for a living. I've been doing it now for over 15 years. I charge 60/hr for the repairs I do. $30 for a buttcap is reasonable because it takes about 10-20 minutes plus the cost of materials. Seems straight forward to me.

I guess you need to make a decision about what you are doing. Is it a hobby or a business? It can't be both.




<~~Please read my signature.
 
bhq

i learned that lesson in my jewelry shop many years before i started building cues. i have had many customers bring a " walmart or j.c. pennys " ring into my store and want me to fix it so the stone will not fall out again. at one time i went to the trouble to explain why their piece of junk was not worth the money involved to make it right. now i just say ' i do not work on discount stores jewelery '
i hate cheap
 
For repairs, you need a setup just for that purpose.
That way you are not breaking down setups and costing yourself time.
If you are not charging a commercial rate , it will not be viable.
Obviously, if the workmanship is not there,the customers won't be either.
Sure when you charge a reasonable rate there will be those that will not bring you work.
But who needs customers that want to stiff you on the bill anyway?
That time is better spent else where.
 
weegee3 said:
Been buiding cues for about 4 years now and often I get a call from friends to repair or replace sumthin' on the cue. Given that I was a rookie I would do it for free or some chump change just to get the practice. So now, I'm pretty good at it and I want to get a few bucks for my workmanship. So I get the blue book out to see what my established counterparts are charging and that is where I'm misssing something.
An electrician or a plumber will hit me for $120 or more to walk through the door but it seems that cuemakers will for example, remove a busted butt cap, replace it, cut and sand it to size and put a finish on it and get an average of $50.00 for the work. Yes there are some higher but rarely did I find a cuemaker who listed a price for such a job that paid for his time and talent.
Put a tip on for $10.00? Unless you are doing 20 or more at a time, what's the point?
It just does not seem to make sense to me if it's a business.
Is it just a hobby for us and a a few bucks here and there to pay the electric bill?
Tell me someone is making a living will ya'.
I fear I already know the answer but........
Weegee
Click to expand...

The answer about what you should charge is so obvious there
is no need to repeat it.

As to cue makers vs electricians, it's called the
Law of Supply and Demand. Also pretty obvious.

Next.

Dale<who wants a rule that says no more posts that state
an opinion disguised as a question>
 
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weegee3 said:
Been buiding cues for about 4 years now and often I get a call from friends to repair or replace sumthin' on the cue. Given that I was a rookie I would do it for free or some chump change just to get the practice. So now, I'm pretty good at it and I want to get a few bucks for my workmanship. So I get the blue book out to see what my established counterparts are charging and that is where I'm misssing something.
An electrician or a plumber will hit me for $120 or more to walk through the door but it seems that cuemakers will for example, remove a busted butt cap, replace it, cut and sand it to size and put a finish on it and get an average of $50.00 for the work. Yes there are some higher but rarely did I find a cuemaker who listed a price for such a job that paid for his time and talent.
Put a tip on for $10.00? Unless you are doing 20 or more at a time, what's the point?
It just does not seem to make sense to me if it's a business.
Is it just a hobby for us and a a few bucks here and there to pay the electric bill?
Tell me someone is making a living will ya'.
I fear I already know the answer but........
Weegee
Click to expand...

Hey Weegee,

You don't do cue making for the money. You do it because you love doing it. If you can find a way to build the better mousetrap via hit, design and playability, then people will beat a path to your door.

I started out doing cue repair and have made a lot of money doing it. That is how I got the addiction to cue making and got money to support my jones. I get 20.00 to put on a tip. I will never make that kind of money per unit of time building a cue and I understand that totally.

The one thing I can say for sure is that the less time and more efficient your process is, the more money you will make per hour. Your machines in your shop are the answer to that. Example: I used to turn my wood from squares to rounds on a lathe. Now I have a doweling machine and it takes 12 seconds to turn with no mess or wear to my router bearings. My capitol investment in that one machine has already been paid for and it is making money for me on every build because my most expensive feature on my cues is my time spent.

One last thought. You must target a minimum cost per hour that you want to make for your cue making. When you price your cue you must get that price plus material and shop overhead.

Once you sell your cues cheap, you will always be a cue maker who sells his cues cheap. That is totally in your control.

Time is money. Don't sell yourself short.

Rick

This doweling machine is a money maker to the max in turning squares to rounds is seconds. In shaft processing alone the cost savings and quality control is over the top when you can hand pick select planks rather than buy random dowels from a merchant. I have an array of other automated machines that are big money makers because they work for me for free and unattended. JMHO
IMG_3715.jpg
 
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