Will the Team USA ever win another mosconi cup?

M

mrinsatiable

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Everything from the captain's choices of match play to the execution of shots. It's looking like a long time before TEAM USA wins another Mosconi cup.

Seems like the criteria for to play on Team USA is a lot easier than Team Europe. Europe has the Euro Tour with an bountiful selection of top notch players and the US has a handleful of Joss tours and Seminole stops.

The United States isn't lacking in pool players..why can't they win?

No..Corey duel, Dennis Hatch, Earl Strickland, Stevie Moore, Scott Frost, even less experienced shooters like Brandon Shuff, Donnie Mills, Jesse Engels...
 
the general lack of experience on the team this year probably was a factor. give those same guys another shot next year and the results could easily be different.
 
mrinsatiable said:
The United States isn't lacking in pool players..why can't they win?
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Because you are wrong there, they ARE lacking in curent world class professional pool players.

Shane is the ONLY player the USA has that could be considered a even bet against Ralph, Mika, Thorsten, or Darren. Johnny is half way to retirement given the attention he puts into playing in world class events and he is simply not as battle hardened and ready to compete against those guys with a true 50/50 chance of winning anymore due to his lack of dedication. You can say "well he has family to think about" and stuff like that but that is the point, Johnny no longer sees professional pool as his main priority and he is competing against players who have just as much talent as he does and they DO commit themselves to the sport fully.

I posted here why the USA is really falling behind in the modern professional pool scene.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=256261

That is why the USA sucks these days. You have 3 players that hardly ever left the USA to compete in an event. They never faced a field with the full Filipino contigent, most of the Taiwanese monsters, the top players in the world today. The Europeans DID compete on the world stage, they put themselves into the toughest tournaments in the world and when they come to something like the Mosconi Cup and play people like the USA team puts out there it is actually a step down from a level of competition that they are accustomed to, people miss shots against them that they normally don't see missed in those world class events, and they tear apart the USA when they do it.
 
I agree Europe was a big fav in this, but it is a race to 6, the US team would do just fine in long races for the cash against this Euro team.
 
its because for EVER pool in the USA consists of each player scratching and clawing to get to events by themselves, to play for themselves, not trying to help a team, or a partner. At most maybe a spouse or backer for company.

We never play team events here, so it has to feel strange for our guys to team up. Seems like over seas they have a bunch of team event during the year right?

anyway.....Corey should have been on our team.....Mike played great.....Putnam looked uncomfortable or out od sorts.....Rodney is awsome, but didnt play great.....and SVB and JA are rocks! Johnny should have been a plying captain.

Looks like CW will go down as the captain with the biggest azzwhoopin ever! :)

G.
 
spanky79 said:
I agree Europe was a big fav in this, but it is a race to 6, the US team would do just fine in long races for the cash against this Euro team.
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I think you are missing a Dennis Hatch kind of guy... Someone who makes a big impression to the others AND his own team...
Someone who shares Energy and feelings with everyshot...

Just watch, the body language of Mike Dechaine against Chis Melling, or even SvB, when Nick made his return... I bet you would not have seen Dennis Hatch with such a frustration in his face... he would smiles and play the crowd...
 
spanky79 said:
I agree Europe was a big fav in this, but it is a race to 6, the US team would do just fine in long races for the cash against this Euro team.
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No they wouldn't. These battle tested Europeans are better players than the Americans for the exact reason that Celtic indicated. They play the full international schedule and are far more accustomed to late match pressure against premier players than all the Americans other than Shane.

Short races, contrary to the opinion of some short-sighted posters on this forum, are a great test of pedigree. Your next mistake may cost you the match, and that's what makes the pressure almost unbearable for all but the battle tested champions.

The pedigree of the American players is below that of both the Europeans and Asians, and that's why we aren't beatng them anymore, not even on American soil. The last twelve events contested on American soil that had significant Asian and European representation relative to field size were these:

2010 US Open 9-ball won by Darren Appleton
2011 Derby City Banks won by Alex Pagulayan
2011 Derby City One Pocket won by Shane Van Boening
2011 Derby City 9-ball won by Dennis Orcullo
2011 Derby City 10-ball won by Rodney Morris
2011 Derby City Straight Pool won by Darren Appleton
2011 Super Billiards Expo 10-ball won by Ralf Souquet
2011US Open One Pocket won by Efren Reyes
2011US Open 10-ball won by Shane Van Boening
2011 Straight Pool Championshp won by Thorsten Hohmann
2011Turning Stone XVII won by Rodney Morris
2011 US Open 9-ball won by Daren Appleton

In short, American players have failed miserably even here in America, winning just four of the last twelve on the list above, and, to this point, offering a poor effort in the 2011 Mosconi Cup.

The American pros are no longer a significant force on the world stage of pool. They can live in denial about it, as you do, but that's not going to help them close the gap between themselves and the European and Asian stars.

.... and, wow, I had no idea what a phenomenal player Chris Melling is!
 
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You guys are on drugs if u think charlie dogged it. Usa supposed to go 4-1 on day 2 and that loss dechaine ass raped ralf. Charlie played for mismatches like u should in team play.team usa dogging it really badly thats why they are losing
 
Avathar said:
I think you are missing a Dennis Hatch kind of guy... Someone who makes a big impression to the others AND his own team...
Someone who shares Energy and feelings with everyshot...

Just watch, the body language of Mike Dechaine against Chis Melling, or even SvB, when Nick made his return... I bet you would not have seen Dennis Hatch with such a frustration in his face... he would smiles and play the crowd...
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We're giving guys that aren't on the team too much credit......both Dennis and Corey were on the team last year and they still lost. Team Europe is the better team this year, as is evident by the score. I am an american but I am not blind. Let's give credit where it is due.
 
Team USA vs Europe

The USA might get lucky and win in the future -

Their biggest problem is the BREAK.
They have not learned to make a ball (1in side or wing ball) and get shape.

It was terrible last year and pretty weak this year.

The euroTour uses these break rules and are used to it. USA did not prepare properly. I still think CW did not motivate the team the way that was needed.

The table played good but was FAST because of the lights - way different then practice tables.

I think the team 'could' do better with better preparation and minor roster changes.

Mark griffin
 
Of course, the U.S. will win the Mosconi Cup again. If I am not mistaken, the U.S. team has won the Mosconi Cup 11 times and the European team only 5.

The European players are better prepared and the U.S. will need to do different things to get the American team up to speed.

There is a relatively small number of professional players that may qualify or be chosen for the USA Mosconi Cup team, including captain.

That group of people that think they have a chance of making the team, should be required to practice during the year with each other, possibly 20 players, making up 4 teams of 5 players each. Even just two teams of 5 players each would be good practice. Prospective captains could practice with the teams to help organize and prepare the team for the Mosconi Cup competition.

There are pool rooms around the country that would host these preparation events free of charge and possibly even cover some of the costs involved with the players getting together for this express purpose. It's possible that some live-streaming could generate some additional revenue to pay the players a stipend for their efforts. And if Sponsors step up to the plate, maybe even the pool room owners might make a buck or two.

The "practice" events could be organized similar to the Mosconi Cup to better prepare the players and the non-playing captain. This is just one thing that the U.S.A. Mosconi Cup Team could do to enhance their chances of winning again.
 
Mark Griffin said:
The USA might get lucky and win in the future -

Their biggest problem is the BREAK.
They have not learned to make a ball (1in side or wing ball) and get shape.

It was terrible last year and pretty weak this year.

The euroTour uses these break rules and are used to it. USA did not prepare properly. I still think CW did not motivate the team the way that was needed.

The table played good but was FAST because of the lights - way different then practice tables.

I think the team 'could' do better with better preparation and minor roster changes.

Mark griffin
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Are you actually watching the same cup as me, or are you just blindly repeating Raj's words. Because the US broke way better on the day 1 and day 2. Yesterday Europe had the edge breaking, as well as in all other aspects.
.
 
jaybanthony said:
We're giving guys that aren't on the team too much credit......both Dennis and Corey were on the team last year and they still lost. Team Europe is the better team this year, as is evident by the score. I am an american but I am not blind. Let's give credit where it is due.
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I am German and i agree with you...

I just think, that Dennis Hatch is a different motivator... Like Daz is for the European Team as of lately... Somone who can bring up the crowd, someone who actually has the balls to kick his teammates asses to get up and fight...

As I said, just watch Shane and Mike in the last two matches... Dennis would have cheared them up (OK, Shane won his match in the end still, which actually surprised me after loosing 4 racks in series...)

I do not think that Dennis or Corey would be much stronger players towards Putnam and Dechaine...

And i agree, Europe still has a huge bunch of strong "A2" players, like Hohmann, Ortmann, Immonen, See, Peach, Gray, Chamat, Jungo... ... ... and many many more... just watch the latest results of the Euro Tour...
Last time Ralf lost both his first matches against so called "no names" each time hill hill matches...
 
not to forget the match he was trailing 3-0 against a 16yo russian who just lost his nerves (its on youtube) but is a great player for the future....
 
well......if anyone here wants to bet 10k then I will bet that the USA wins another one before Europe ties them. we both put the stakes into a cd for five years and the winner gets the account when the bet is won.

in the last five years the freaking rules haven't even been the same year to year. match room play games with the team selection ensuring lots of debate and hurt feelings well before the event.
 
I vote next year we send

Earl, Nick, Mike, Jim, Roger........and either Allen or CJ as the Captain. :wink:
 
The USA will win one of these Mosconi Cups, but they will be underdogs for many years to come unless America stops living in denial about the state of its professional play. The American professional playing community has been focusing on tweaking the game, the rules, and the equipment to suit themselves. As Jay Helfert has often said, no matter the equipment, no matter the rules, no matter the length of race, the cream rises to the top in competition. The same guys, for the most part, will win.

The worst part of what's going on with American pool is the relative absence of any young players who look like future world beaters. Shane is one of the greats already, Mike Dechaine looks like a very solid young player, and I'm impressed with what I've seen of John "Hennessee" Pinegar, but not many young American players are wowing me right now. I remember watching the 19 year old Earl Strickland, the 18 year old Allen Hopkins, and the 23 year old Mike Sigel. Despite their youth, each of them could take on virtually all comers way back when. Where are the young Americans who can do the same? Only Shane qualifies.

The American system is not producing many premier players anymore and the reasons nees to be studied. Time honored methods for instruction, practice, and preparation need to be reviewed, critiqued, and where necessary, revised, if we're ever to catch up with Europe and Asia. If it is broken, fix it!
 
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