I knew one day I would find a category I fell into, lol. I dont know how personal some of my cues have been but I can honestly say i have played with every cue I have ever owned, whether I had it for a year or a day. :thumbup:
Wanted/For Sale Section to Change in New Year
- Thread starter Jerry Forsyth
- Start date
Gave a little thought to this earlier.
I saw a couple ideas that were interesting such as requiring drivers licenses. 2 problems with that idea (and several like it).
1 - Getting fakes made up is fairly easy.
2. It puts the onus on AZ to verify and police this. Thus, it makes them MORE responsible.
Payal, although imperfect is pretty darn good at protecting it's users. I could probably retire on 5% of what they spent this year in fraud protection.
Reguire all sellers to be Paypal Verified at a minimum. There is some other level you reach after you have made several successful deals which makes you sales protected. Contacting Paypal would be a good start. I am sure they have good ideas.
AZ could also completely take over the sales, sign up with Paypal and have everything protected. Although this gives them more control, it also give them more responsibility which I don't think they want.
The other good idea I saw was using an Escrow service. AZ could require anyone who is not a long standing and verified member of AZ to use this service. Just like you have "Club Member" tags under their names you could have "Verified Reseller" or something like that.
Another is requiring anyone who sells on AZ to do it only through their own website. It costs very little to setup a site and under $100 to have it hosted for a year. And yes that is true. I just bought my with a rather nice website for X-mas all setup and ready to go, even has tons of content already there. It cost me $25 for the site and $81 a year to host. Domain Name renewal is about $10 a year. And from what I see, it will be pretty easy for her to change and update.
Sounds like a Disclaimer is useless so maybe everyone who sells has to sign a waiver absolving AZ from any liability or damages. That sounds like a pain though.
I have several other ideas as well but I would think the AZ staff would want to remove themselves as much as possible and not get into the cue sale business. Unfortunately, for every decent idea I had (including those above) I also saw holes.
I saw a couple ideas that were interesting such as requiring drivers licenses. 2 problems with that idea (and several like it).
1 - Getting fakes made up is fairly easy.
2. It puts the onus on AZ to verify and police this. Thus, it makes them MORE responsible.
Payal, although imperfect is pretty darn good at protecting it's users. I could probably retire on 5% of what they spent this year in fraud protection.
Reguire all sellers to be Paypal Verified at a minimum. There is some other level you reach after you have made several successful deals which makes you sales protected. Contacting Paypal would be a good start. I am sure they have good ideas.
AZ could also completely take over the sales, sign up with Paypal and have everything protected. Although this gives them more control, it also give them more responsibility which I don't think they want.
The other good idea I saw was using an Escrow service. AZ could require anyone who is not a long standing and verified member of AZ to use this service. Just like you have "Club Member" tags under their names you could have "Verified Reseller" or something like that.
Another is requiring anyone who sells on AZ to do it only through their own website. It costs very little to setup a site and under $100 to have it hosted for a year. And yes that is true. I just bought my with a rather nice website for X-mas all setup and ready to go, even has tons of content already there. It cost me $25 for the site and $81 a year to host. Domain Name renewal is about $10 a year. And from what I see, it will be pretty easy for her to change and update.
Sounds like a Disclaimer is useless so maybe everyone who sells has to sign a waiver absolving AZ from any liability or damages. That sounds like a pain though.
I have several other ideas as well but I would think the AZ staff would want to remove themselves as much as possible and not get into the cue sale business. Unfortunately, for every decent idea I had (including those above) I also saw holes.
Out Them
Are lawsuits public record? If so, I’d start a forum section outing those who are filing lawsuits against AZ. Peer pressure can be a powerful deterrent.
Are lawsuits public record? If so, I’d start a forum section outing those who are filing lawsuits against AZ. Peer pressure can be a powerful deterrent.
Sorry if that felt harsh or whatever, I didn't intend it to be. I was merely pointing out that continuing to do the same thing you have done in the past and expecting a different result is the definition of...., well you get the point.
I assume the powers that be at AZ are looking for some changes, after all, you guys have been announcing them this past 2 weeks. You have, as you pointed out, always touted escrow for transactions. If you are looking for change, going back to touting the same old procedures probably isn't going to get it done.
Thanks
Kevin
Requiring all sellers to accept PayPal funded by a credit card would guarantee the vetting of the sellers because PayPal requires their clients to go through a level of verification before they can accept credit card payments. Not that it will happen here, but if it did, AZ could be hands off in the dispute process. PayPal a guy funded by your credit card and he doesn't send you the cue? You simply dispute that charge with your credit card company and the problem is over for the buyer. AZ needn't be involved other than to require all buyers and sellers utilize PayPal (which will never happen).
Thanks
Kevin
Where to start
If I had to do this I would start like this:
Realize that no matter what we decide to do it is impossible to make everyone happy.
Either use a notebook or make files on the computer (actually I'd use both)
- Write a mission statement or what the goal or primary purpose is. Constantly refer to it.
- Write down every worthwhile idea. Payl, Escrow, shutting the section down, Waivers, Disclaimers, barring certain states from dealing, Verifications, separate sites, whatever I could think of or saw in this post.
- Write Pros and Cons for every idea. Even if they sound silly, write them down.
- Rate each idea by level of liability, impact, flexibility, cost or however to choice to rate the ideas. I would rate each by several of those. Although you want to appease as many people as possible, Never lose sight of the Primary Goal.
Then once I had that done I'd publish that list and ask the members to give their input on the Pros and Cons.
Narrow down to a couple good ideas and runs it past the lawyers.
Decide on the best one and implement it. It would probably be worthwhile to ask for a volunteer to police the new policy.
If you need any more thoughts on this I am only a phone call away.
If I had to do this I would start like this:
Realize that no matter what we decide to do it is impossible to make everyone happy.
Either use a notebook or make files on the computer (actually I'd use both)
- Write a mission statement or what the goal or primary purpose is. Constantly refer to it.
- Write down every worthwhile idea. Payl, Escrow, shutting the section down, Waivers, Disclaimers, barring certain states from dealing, Verifications, separate sites, whatever I could think of or saw in this post.
- Write Pros and Cons for every idea. Even if they sound silly, write them down.
- Rate each idea by level of liability, impact, flexibility, cost or however to choice to rate the ideas. I would rate each by several of those. Although you want to appease as many people as possible, Never lose sight of the Primary Goal.
Then once I had that done I'd publish that list and ask the members to give their input on the Pros and Cons.
Narrow down to a couple good ideas and runs it past the lawyers.
Decide on the best one and implement it. It would probably be worthwhile to ask for a volunteer to police the new policy.
If you need any more thoughts on this I am only a phone call away.
I think escrow should be an option not a mandate. A member should have escrow available to he or she but if not used the member should bare full responsibility. Not AZB...We already have this in place, just put a clause in the membership requirements stating such.
"country" Bob
"country" Bob
Bob
I'm not sure how viable it is. I do know if it was in place, it would stop the scams completely. I'm not sure than implementing it would be possible, but I'm also not sure that it couldn't be put in place.
I buy 10s of thousands of dollars a month worth of stuff, much of it from people I have no clue about. I ask sellers 2 questions:
1) Will you take my PayPal as payment?
2) Will you guarantee my satisfaction?
If the answer is yes to both those questions, I'll do business with anyone. I have never lost a dime in a scam where I paid (or accepted for that matter) via PayPal.
Again. here we are again discussing the (now) proposed changes as if what AZ was concerned about was the scam or bad transactions in the For Sale forum. If that is what they want to fix, then Jerry's OP makes little sense to me. I don't think we have a clear view of what they are trying to achieve (and I hope they do).
Thanks
Kevin
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Me Too!..Either!??
IMHO everyone is kind of over reacting, but the MEMBERS who sell a few Cues a Month are one of the REASONS, many come to AZBilliards. To see what is available For Sale by this Armada of Sellers.
So I hope Mike aka AzHousePro finds some middle ground to make everyone happy. As IMHO if the MEMBERS who sell a few Cues a Month, are not allowed to list items for sale on AZBilliards. It will turn away a lot of regular visitor to the web-site, aka AZBilliards.
More Ideas and thoughts!
1. At $1000 a day it may be cheaper to pay them off! How many cue sales and how much is at stake? What’s the consumer losses? It can’t be that much and it cant be that many cues/customers.
2. I would much rather the money go to the victim’s then to the lawyers!
3. If you are revamping the rules then I would make members contribute to a legal defense fund as part of their cost to do business on AZB!
4. I would revamp the rules requiring all members sellers and buyers waive their right to sue and agree to BINDING arbitration regarding any and all disputes as part of use.
5. I would revamp the rules to require the arbitrator to be the OWNER of AZB.com or his designee.
6. I would revamp the rules to require the loser of any dispute to be BANNED.
7. I would set up the defense fund as a insurance policy. All members agree to receive any distributions of the defense fund at the end of each year. If the liabilities of the yearly fund cant cover all claims then the member agrees to accept splitting the fund by their percentage of the funds total obligations.
8. I would return any unused contributions to the defense fund if excess
9. I would restrict sales to finished goods only! No more ordering thru AZB and waiting! All sales must be concluded in 30 days! All packages must be shipped out within 1 week of sale date/order date with some form of tracking ONLY.
10. I would establish a rule that all sellers must be bonded and insured to sell new product. if the insurance and bond process is too steep then they MUST contribute to the defense fund. One or the other!!!
Personally, I think it sucks when a few bad apples ruin it for everybody!
1. At $1000 a day it may be cheaper to pay them off! How many cue sales and how much is at stake? What’s the consumer losses? It can’t be that much and it cant be that many cues/customers.
2. I would much rather the money go to the victim’s then to the lawyers!
3. If you are revamping the rules then I would make members contribute to a legal defense fund as part of their cost to do business on AZB!
4. I would revamp the rules requiring all members sellers and buyers waive their right to sue and agree to BINDING arbitration regarding any and all disputes as part of use.
5. I would revamp the rules to require the arbitrator to be the OWNER of AZB.com or his designee.
6. I would revamp the rules to require the loser of any dispute to be BANNED.
7. I would set up the defense fund as a insurance policy. All members agree to receive any distributions of the defense fund at the end of each year. If the liabilities of the yearly fund cant cover all claims then the member agrees to accept splitting the fund by their percentage of the funds total obligations.
8. I would return any unused contributions to the defense fund if excess
9. I would restrict sales to finished goods only! No more ordering thru AZB and waiting! All sales must be concluded in 30 days! All packages must be shipped out within 1 week of sale date/order date with some form of tracking ONLY.
10. I would establish a rule that all sellers must be bonded and insured to sell new product. if the insurance and bond process is too steep then they MUST contribute to the defense fund. One or the other!!!
Personally, I think it sucks when a few bad apples ruin it for everybody!
If things don't work out here for everyone, I added a for sale section to my raffle site.
http://lpcustomcues.forumotion.com/
Thanks
Lee
http://lpcustomcues.forumotion.com/
Thanks
Lee
most dealers post on there web site return policy -ours is black and white 72 hours after receiving to have the cue on the way back to us in the condition sent and full refund even if it is the playability or looks that displease you!no questions asked!
i wonder if there is a discloser you can put up like ( at az billiards we offer a open forum to the public and all content put on the site by any one other than us we can not stand behind all purchase and sales are to be done at your own risk ) and before any one can post they must click a accept box and from that point on the waived all rights to come back on you!
i wonder if there is a discloser you can put up like ( at az billiards we offer a open forum to the public and all content put on the site by any one other than us we can not stand behind all purchase and sales are to be done at your own risk ) and before any one can post they must click a accept box and from that point on the waived all rights to come back on you!
i would not see a problem with that at all but i believe people that have sold lets say more than 10 cue here in a given period would be considerd a quazi dealer like your self. there are guys who dont have legit buisness that do as much sales as like western cues -new to you cues - cueaddicts. and i believe they also should pony up! just my 2cents
Sites
Can someone please forward the names of other sites like azb as i really enjoy being able to come here and enjoy the eye candy and sometimes step up and pull the trigger. I look forward to doing so in the future weather here or elsewhere.
I would like to add that i'm sorry to hear of all the turmoil that the changes are causing......
Can someone please forward the names of other sites like azb as i really enjoy being able to come here and enjoy the eye candy and sometimes step up and pull the trigger. I look forward to doing so in the future weather here or elsewhere.
I would like to add that i'm sorry to hear of all the turmoil that the changes are causing......