Racking Grief

Cuebuddy

Cuebuddy

Mini cues
Silver Member
Watching the Turning Stone tournament this weekend was fun but I could not help but notice that the players seemed to be more picky then usual when it came to gap-less racks. Its true that everyone likes a tight rack but some of the racking attempts took longer then the games.

Diamond makes a great rack and I use mine exclusively but I am starting to think these new "stay on table" racking devises have some merit.

I did enjoy having a less predictable break then when using the Magic Rack but I cant help but think that this added hours on to the event.

It seems like right now we cant have it both ways - a fast rack and a break that is more interesting because no two are the same.

I must admit some of the rhetoric that went on between the racker and the breaker was entertaining:).
 
I did notice that in the later portion of the final match that Shane had quit inspecting Raj's racking altogether. I don't know if this is because Raj had been giving him good racks all night, or if after he got a couple games ahead he felt confident that he was gonna win the match regardless of what the rack was like.

It gets VERY boring to a viewer watching all the quibbling over the racking!!!

Maniac
 
Maniac said:
I did notice that in the later portion of the final match that Shane had quit inspecting Raj's racking altogether. I don't know if this is because Raj had been giving him good racks all night, or if after he got a couple games ahead he felt confident that he was gonna win the match regardless of what the rack was like.

It gets VERY boring to a viewer watching all the quibbling over the racking!!!

Maniac
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I would agree for the most part, the exception would be the Dennis Hatch vs
Mike Dechaine match.
 
During the player meeting Mike asked if he was missing something and I raised my hand. Yes Jesse what?? I mentioned the option of rack your own. Awwww yes... Mike said that you can rack your own as long as both players agree to it. Either way (Mike said) no one will be happy... just be a honest person and give a good rack!! I don't want racking issues this year!!

Funny but he also added that last year they thought of putting all the balls in a bag over the table and pull a string to drop them... There is your break shot!! :lol::lol::lol:

Only problem with that option was who would get to pull the string!! Funny stuff that comes out of Zuglan's mouth!!
 
This past week, a player who was on his way to the Turning Stone stopped at my place. He has also played in a number of my events including my most recent event just a few weeks ago. In reflecting on my events. He commented on how smooth and fast they went and how they were free of all the animosity and arguing that goes on in all other events. He said that he could not help but notice how everyone just seemed to get along much better. He credited the No Conflict Rules. He said that they made sense and he actually liked them.

My event turned players away after filling to 64 (double elimination, race to 7 and race to 6). Play started at 1:00 in the afternoon and concluded at 12:50 (under 12 hours). The No Conflict Rules have many advantages. I have run eight such events and they get more and more popular.

I like my results.
 
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RunoutJJ said:
... Mike said that you can rack your own as long as both players agree to it. ...
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?????????? None of the streamed matches I watched were rack your own.

One commentator said that Appleton told him he (Appleton) might not return to Turning Stone unless they (1) change from loser racks and (2) don't count 9-balls made on the break as wins.

So I thought it was loser racks all the way.
 
Last year Antanoks and me agreed to rack our own due to problems getting the balls to sit right in the racking area. No problems after that and no issues with the 9balls going in.

Forgot to add that Zuglan did mention that if the players rack their own the 9 still counts on the break.

Darren can say what he wants but I watched him play some amazing pool this weekend with no issues. So whatever... I think ever tournament should be rack your own with the 9ball not counting in the corners near the rack on the break. That or use the Rack Tight or Slug Doctor. Perfect rack everytime no matter who is racking. Such a easy solution for racking that almost ever promoter doesnt use. I just don't get it :rolleyes:
 
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Believe me I brought it up and Mike said he didn't care as long as both players agreed. Now whether darren heard that (he was sitting just below me during the meeting) is debatable but like I said... When it happened to me last year Greg and I racked our own racks with no problems...
 
champ2107 said:
watch the third game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW6KJ6wP5IU
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Good catch. The racking for the fourth rack begins at 14:38, Earl gets the ref involved, the break finally occurs at 18:45, and See's wing ball hits a whole diamond up the long rail from the pocket. Pounding on the balls recurred later in the match at 33:17. The rack and break at nine ball are broken. This has been known for about 10 years. Just ask Joe Tucker.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Good catch. The racking for the fourth rack begins at 14:38, Earl gets the ref involved, the break finally occurs at 18:45, and See's wing ball hits a whole diamond up the long rail from the pocket. Pounding on the balls recurred later in the match at 33:17. The rack and break at nine ball are broken. This has been known for about 10 years. Just ask Joe Tucker.
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Bob, you are 99.99% correct. It is broke everywhere in the world except in one lone pool room in Erie PA. There are absolutely and emphatically, no racking and breaking problems here. No complaints. No arguing. No time wasted. No funky gadgets. No rack checking. No re-racking. No studying of little spaces between balls. No slug racks. No pattern racks. No tilted racks. No rack approval. No ball tapping. And on and on and on...

From my vantage point, the rack and break in Nine-Ball is in great shape.
http://www.goldcrownbilliardseriepa.com/no-conflict-rules/
 
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Paul Schofield said:
Bob, you are 99.99% correct. It is broke everywhere in the world except in one lone pool room in Erie PA. There are absolutely and emphatically, no racking and breaking problems here. No complaints. No arguing. No time wasted. No funky gadgets. No rack checking. No re-racking. No studying of little spaces between balls. No slug racks. No pattern racks. No tilted racks.
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Think we have been thru this 8 times or so... Run your tourneys however you see fit and more power to you. You get props for promoting your events and giving players tournaments to play in..

From your stance though I think all of the players know better than to complain... I would love to hear from some of them and not just you as to what they think of the rules employed....

I would think that maybe at least 1-2 of them would likely be members here on AZ.......
 
The Renfro said:
Think we have been thru this 8 times or so... Run your tourneys however you see fit and more power to you. You get props for promoting your events and giving players tournaments to play in..

From your stance though I think all of the players know better than to complain... I would love to hear from some of them and not just you as to what they think of the rules employed....

I would think that maybe at least 1-2 of them would likely be members here on AZ.......
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These rules are not the kind of thing to be liked or disliked. They serve a purpose. They either work or they don't. It takes some time to become acclimated and develop a strategy.

Players will complain if they have a problem. I know this. They are not bashful.

You are correct on one thing. I have no dog in anyone else's hunt. I care little what other tournament operators do. Nothing really happens here on this forum.
 
Paul Schofield said:
These rules are not the kind of thing to be liked or disliked. They serve a purpose. They either work or they don't. It takes some time to become acclimated and develop a strategy.

Players will complain if they have a problem. I know this. They are not bashful.

You are correct on one thing. I have no dog in anyone else's hunt. I care little what other tournament operators do. Nothing really happens here on this forum.
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I do understand that it serves a purpose but the rule change negates a specific skill set that most pro speed players work hard to develop... I cannot imagine any game where I get to shoot again immediately after the break when I don't pocket a ball... Fleming is doing a similar thing that requires a pushout after the break on the Thursday night AccuStats free feeds.......

I could very much see where new strategy develops when you get to shoot right after the break... I would be hitting them as soft as possible to meet the 2 ball midline rule and pretty much lock in a win on all my break attempts..... You do play 3 foul don't you?
 
The Renfro said:
I do understand that it serves a purpose but the rule change negates a specific skill set that most pro speed players work hard to develop... I cannot imagine any game where I get to shoot again immediately after the break when I don't pocket a ball... Fleming is doing a similar thing that requires a pushout after the break on the Thursday night AccuStats free feeds.......

I could very much see where new strategy develops when you get to shoot right after the break... I would be hitting them as soft as possible to meet the 2 ball midline rule and pretty much lock in a win on all my break attempts..... You do play 3 foul don't you?
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Interesting angle and I would agree.
 
The Renfro said:
I do understand that it serves a purpose but the rule change negates a specific skill set that most pro speed players work hard to develop... I cannot imagine any game where I get to shoot again immediately after the break when I don't pocket a ball... Fleming is doing a similar thing that requires a pushout after the break on the Thursday night AccuStats free feeds.......

I could very much see where new strategy develops when you get to shoot right after the break... I would be hitting them as soft as possible to meet the 2 ball midline rule and pretty much lock in a win on all my break attempts..... You do play 3 foul don't you?
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, I am tired of posting about this thing as I am sure many are bored reading about it. I am getting bored too.

You did happen upon one topic not previously discussed. Here is the shocker. I have the stats to prove it. A top pro has no better chance of making a ball on the break than a banger (as long as the banger has some kind of stroke and has some kind of strength). In addition, the harder a pro hits the rack, the chances that the cue ball winds up in the desired spot becomes the same chance that it winds up anywhere.

I would bet high that there is not a 5% difference in success rate of making a ball on the break between any 5 pros and 5 of my mediocre league players. If this is in fact true, then you really have got to question why we bother to protect the ball on the break with all the garbage that goes on. Keep the ball and we keep all the crap (decades of it).

When you make a ball on the break, you have not done anything special and it should not be rewarded.
 
That's why I like rack your own or simply change from 9 ball to 10 ball and use the magic rack.
 
I no longer enjoy going to the US Open because of the slow racking. My solution has always been to use amateur volunteers to rack with the Sardo Tight Rack where the breaker has to accept the rack, unless of course a ball rolls clearly away from the rack.
 
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