Help! My son keeps destroying break tips...

Otterman

Otterman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I need help finding a solution to my son breaking tips or knocking them off on the break. He's broken 2 Samsara break tips on an OB break shaft in the last week. 1 tip broke into several pieces; the other came off the cue and is split down the middle. He also destroyed a BK2 shaft, but that's probably beyond our scope here.

My son just turned 12 a couple weeks ago. He already breaks in the 21-24 mph range, so I'm sure this problem is only going to get worse as he gets bigger and stronger. He doesn't like the phenolic tips, so I need to stick with leather. The following short video is by no means his biggest break, but it'll give you an idea what I'm working with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbHyydXc7l0

Should I try a slightly softer tip? I think maybe the Samsara is becoming brittle with use due to its hardness. I also need help keeping the tip attached to the ferrule. I do my own tip replacements and use Loctite Control Gel. Is there another adhesive that works better?
 
I can't help you with your tips but you should warn people to turn down their speakers. Your boy's break did for my ear drums what it does for Samsara tips. :yikes:

Twelve you say? :thumbup:
 
Hes skipping the tip on the table when he follows through. Side pressure on a poorly installed tip will pop it right off.
As far as tips "breaking"... there was something wrong with the tip. Your boy breaks well, but no where near enough power to disintegrate a tip.
Chuck
 
cueman said:
Miscues tend to cause phenolic tips to pop off and layered tips to delaminate. Put on a Mad Man Jump/Break one piece leather tip and see if that solves the problem.

http://www.cuesmith.com/index.php?menu2=menu_accessories&page=tips_ferrules

Switch glues to the Loctite Ultra Gel.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Chris. I'll give the Mad Man a try.

These tip failures weren't caused by miscues, though, and they didn't really de-laminate. The cue ball was hit dead center both times, and the first tip literally broke into 3 or 4 larger pieces from the top down, like cutting a pie. The most recent tip failure (tonight!), it was broken down the middle looking down at the tip (like cutting a pizza in half). I have had a couple others that did de-laminate, though.
 
RiverCity said:
Hes skipping the tip on the table when he follows through. Side pressure on a poorly installed tip will pop it right off.
As far as tips "breaking"... there was something wrong with the tip. Your boy breaks well, but no where near enough power to disintegrate a tip.
Chuck
Click to expand...

Thanks for watching and catching that follow through issue. At least I know specifically what's causing the problems. Don't think I'll encourage him to change his follow through, but knowing the problem is half the battle.

Agree that he's not breaking anywhere near hard enough to bust up a tip. I've never even seen a leather tip actually break in that manner before. Thanks for the response. After 2 tips and 1 shaft gave way in the last week, frustration was about to set it.......
 
hey terry
check the ferrule to see if loose.
i also use a razor blade and cut lines in the center of the back of the tip and on the face of the ferrule.
dont cut lines to the edge of the ferrule.
i use 5 minute epoxy gorilla glue it dry's hard but not brittle.
mike
 
BTW Chris, I got your package today. Nice stuff.
The pack also contained 5 Mad Man break tips from Chris.
They are an excellent price for 5.
Visually, they also appear to be very well made.

I can tell you that these puppies are hard. Maybe they soak them in liquid Viagra. There are a couple of guys around here that don't like phenolic so they will be happy with these on their BKs.

PS - Is your boys name Bam Bam?
Wish I could break like that.
 
Last edited:
I can't help you with your tips but you should warn people to turn down their speakers. Your boy's break did for my ear drums what it does for Samsara tips.

Twelve you say?
Click to expand...

Ha ha!! Yes, just turned 12 last Friday.

PS - Is your boys name Bam Bam?
Click to expand...

Hehehehehehhe (chuckling)!
 
Otterman said:
I need help finding a solution to my son breaking tips or knocking them off on the break. He's broken 2 Samsara break tips on an OB break shaft in the last week. 1 tip broke into several pieces; the other came off the cue and is split down the middle. He also destroyed a BK2 shaft, but that's probably beyond our scope here.

My son just turned 12 a couple weeks ago. He already breaks in the 21-24 mph range, so I'm sure this problem is only going to get worse as he gets bigger and stronger. He doesn't like the phenolic tips, so I need to stick with leather. The following short video is by no means his biggest break, but it'll give you an idea what I'm working with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbHyydXc7l0

Should I try a slightly softer tip? I think maybe the Samsara is becoming brittle with use due to its hardness. I also need help keeping the tip attached to the ferrule. I do my own tip replacements and use Loctite Control Gel. Is there another adhesive that works better?
Click to expand...

I glue all break tips with 24 hr epoxy. If the customer is in a hurray and they want me to use instant glue, I don't give a warranty on it not popping off.
 
Otterman said:
I need help finding a solution to my son breaking tips or knocking them off on the break. He's broken 2 Samsara break tips on an OB break shaft in the last week. 1 tip broke into several pieces; the other came off the cue and is split down the middle. He also destroyed a BK2 shaft, but that's probably beyond our scope here.

My son just turned 12 a couple weeks ago. He already breaks in the 21-24 mph range, so I'm sure this problem is only going to get worse as he gets bigger and stronger. He doesn't like the phenolic tips, so I need to stick with leather. The following short video is by no means his biggest break, but it'll give you an idea what I'm working with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbHyydXc7l0

Should I try a slightly softer tip? I think maybe the Samsara is becoming brittle with use due to its hardness. I also need help keeping the tip attached to the ferrule. I do my own tip replacements and use Loctite Control Gel. Is there another adhesive that works better?
Click to expand...

just use a triangle tip.
he doesn't deliver the cue square,he is all over the place.
if he was a stamping press he would have to come down for a overhaul.

bill
 
I have a customer that breaks Samsara tips as well. He breaks in the 28-30mph range. I've tried every tip I can think of. Every one has failed. Tips are not meant to last forever. If I can get one to last three months for this guy, I'm doing ok.



<~~The one that lasted the longest was a Super Pro.
 
Very nice break. like mention his follow through with lifting the back of the butt is putting pressure on the ferrule and tip. I would assume the times the tip flies is when he catches more pressure on the tip then the ferrule.
 
Otterman said:
I need help finding a solution to my son breaking tips or knocking them off on the break. He's broken 2 Samsara break tips on an OB break shaft in the last week. 1 tip broke into several pieces; the other came off the cue and is split down the middle. He also destroyed a BK2 shaft, but that's probably beyond our scope here.

My son just turned 12 a couple weeks ago. He already breaks in the 21-24 mph range, so I'm sure this problem is only going to get worse as he gets bigger and stronger. He doesn't like the phenolic tips, so I need to stick with leather. The following short video is by no means his biggest break, but it'll give you an idea what I'm working with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbHyydXc7l0

Should I try a slightly softer tip? I think maybe the Samsara is becoming brittle with use due to its hardness. I also need help keeping the tip attached to the ferrule. I do my own tip replacements and use Loctite Control Gel. Is there another adhesive that works better?
Click to expand...

My personal experience is that ALL break tips will fall off in the end even if hit correctly. I know that some people say "I have had my samsara/white diamond... tip on for a year an it has never popped off". Well, you just haven't hit it off center or you don't break very hard. I love the jump/break tips and they do work the best.... but

I gave up and now use a one piece ferrule/tip phenolic or a hard water buffalo leather tip...... no more problems

Kim
 
ratcues said:
I have a customer that breaks Samsara tips as well. He breaks in the 28-30mph range. I've tried every tip I can think of. Every one has failed. Tips are not meant to last forever. If I can get one to last three months for this guy, I'm doing ok.



<~~The one that lasted the longest was a Super Pro.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Ryan. Sounds like I've signed up for a part-time career as my boy's shaft man. :thud: Kinda makes me feel more like a caddy than a coach. Guess I'll start saving for a repair lathe. :shrug:

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I'll try these ideas until we find what works best for us, and when the next tip gets destroyed, I'll just replace it and be happy he's playing pool at home instead of making us run around to Little League baseball games or soccer practice! :D

Happy Holidays, everyone.
 
Otterman,

First, your son does have a nice break!

After watching the video, I don't see anything that would indicate the tips wouldn't hold up. I normally break in that range and have had them go for quite a while. As a matter of fact, I don't remember a Samsara ever failing on me. I usually go for a good year, and then end up switching to try some crazy experiment or something. It's interesting that the Samsara tips have broken into pie shaped pieces. I've never seen or heard that before. If you have another one break, please send the pieces of it to me. I've been using them since before they hit the market and can visit with Samsara about what I find.

You should be aware that the bending of the cue shaft against the table is very hard on the joint area of the cue and shaft. Most break cue and break cue shaft failures are in this area, and are caused by this "side load". Remember that break shafts are much stiffer than normal play shafts, so when it bends it puts much higher loads on the joint end of the shaft and the cue. The best break shot advice I have ever received came from Charlie "Hillbilly" Bryant. He told me to follow through and not let the tip touch the table. What this does is make sure you aren't hitting down on the cue ball, and going more though it. To do this, I had to move down and forward with my body instead of up and forward. I can't tell you how much this improved my break, it was amazing the difference.

Anyway, if I can help don't hesitate to call me.


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
877-399-9901
 
RBC said:
Otterman,

First, your son does have a nice break!

After watching the video, I don't see anything that would indicate the tips wouldn't hold up. I normally break in that range and have had them go for quite a while. As a matter of fact, I don't remember a Samsara ever failing on me. I usually go for a good year, and then end up switching to try some crazy experiment or something. It's interesting that the Samsara tips have broken into pie shaped pieces. I've never seen or heard that before. If you have another one break, please send the pieces of it to me. I've been using them since before they hit the market and can visit with Samsara about what I find.

You should be aware that the bending of the cue shaft against the table is very hard on the joint area of the cue and shaft. Most break cue and break cue shaft failures are in this area, and are caused by this "side load". Remember that break shafts are much stiffer than normal play shafts, so when it bends it puts much higher loads on the joint end of the shaft and the cue. The best break shot advice I have ever received came from Charlie "Hillbilly" Bryant. He told me to follow through and not let the tip touch the table. What this does is make sure you aren't hitting down on the cue ball, and going more though it. To do this, I had to move down and forward with my body instead of up and forward. I can't tell you how much this improved my break, it was amazing the difference.

Anyway, if I can help don't hesitate to call me.


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
877-399-9901
Click to expand...

Thanks so much, Royce. He actually has changed his follow through a little since that video, and he is breaking harder. I got him to lower his bridge height a bit so he's not hitting down at the cue ball, and I always tell him to go straight through it. The less your cue goes up or down, the more consistent you'll be.

You'll be happy to know I ordered another OB break shaft today for him to use on the BK2 butt. He may have broken a Samsara tip or two, but his current OB shaft has performed great for maybe 18 months, and I bought it used. He totally exploded the BK2 shaft last week, and I bought that for him on our way to Jr. Nat'ls. back in July.

Keep up the good work, and thanks again.
 
vasilios said:
just use a triangle tip.
he doesn't deliver the cue square,he is all over the place.
if he was a stamping press he would have to come down for a overhaul.

bill
Click to expand...

As others have pointed out, He's hitting the table and the cueball at about the same time. Not good for tips, or ferrules. I have a player on my team that breaks that way, he just broke a piece of the cueball off about 2 months ago while breaking. He hits ridiculesly hard and bends the shaft into the table like your son did. So far he hasn't damaged the ferrule or tip. It's an old viking ferrule and a triangle tip that I put on 2 years ago. When he broke the cueball, I actually thought the ferrule had snapped off finally, but turned out to be a piece of the cueball.:eek:
It sounds like you put these on by hand? It's possible that the ferrule isn't being faced off properly (no offence meant) and is not very flat faced, so the increased pressure by your son's hard break causes the tip to flex slightly and thereby break the glue bond, or if the bond holds up, then the tip explodes. Too much pressure and a bit of flex the wrong way and the whole thing becomes a nightmare. The extra pressure needs to go somewhere, and the weakest link will give. Try having a repair guy do it on a lathe, or get one yourself. It can be a hugh difference as to how long they stay on. I use Loctite gel and prime the tip with a real thin superglue, let set about 10 minutes then sand it flat again. Make sure both the tip and ferrule are totally flat and square to each other before applying the tip. Use a magnifiying glass, and see if any light shines thru the edges when pressing the tip lightly to the ferrule face, make sure for no movement with any side to side pressure. If not, then glue it on with proper clamping. A lathe would help all abve steps in a hugh way.
If he continues to play, then finding the cause now is better.
Good luck and Merry Christmas.
Dave
 
He is miscueing. Tell him chalk up line up the break and don't take his eye off the middle of the cue all.

If you have a red dot or blue circle. That's what it is for
 
Dave38 said:
As others have pointed out, He's hitting the table and the cueball at about the same time. Not good for tips, or ferrules. I have a player on my team that breaks that way, he just broke a piece of the cueball off about 2 months ago while breaking. He hits ridiculesly hard and bends the shaft into the table like your son did. So far he hasn't damaged the ferrule or tip. It's an old viking ferrule and a triangle tip that I put on 2 years ago. When he broke the cueball, I actually thought the ferrule had snapped off finally, but turned out to be a piece of the cueball.:eek:
It sounds like you put these on by hand? It's possible that the ferrule isn't being faced off properly (no offence meant) and is not very flat faced, so the increased pressure by your son's hard break causes the tip to flex slightly and thereby break the glue bond, or if the bond holds up, then the tip explodes. Too much pressure and a bit of flex the wrong way and the whole thing becomes a nightmare. The extra pressure needs to go somewhere, and the weakest link will give. Try having a repair guy do it on a lathe, or get one yourself. It can be a hugh difference as to how long they stay on. I use Loctite gel and prime the tip with a real thin superglue, let set about 10 minutes then sand it flat again. Make sure both the tip and ferrule are totally flat and square to each other before applying the tip. Use a magnifiying glass, and see if any light shines thru the edges when pressing the tip lightly to the ferrule face, make sure for no movement with any side to side pressure. If not, then glue it on with proper clamping. A lathe would help all abve steps in a hugh way.
If he continues to play, then finding the cause now is better.
Good luck and Merry Christmas.
Dave
Click to expand...

Thanks, Dave. Terrific advice. I'm using my trusty old Tweeten Rapid Sander on the ferrule and I sand the back of the tip with a sanding block. :thumbup: I'm sure that's nowhere near as precise as a lathe. I'll start saving!!

he doesn't deliver the cue square,he is all over the place.
if he was a stamping press he would have to come down for a overhaul.

bill
Click to expand...

He is miscueing. Tell him chalk up line up the break and don't take his eye off the middle of the cue all.

If you have a red dot or blue circle. That's what it is for
Click to expand...

As others have pointed out, He's hitting the table and the cueball at about the same time.
Click to expand...

Gentlemen,

He's actually hitting the cue ball dead-center. After reading your comments, I watched several of his breaks on my home computer where I can frame-advance, and his cue is almost perfectly level and the tip is in the middle of the cue ball at the moment of contact. I can't get higher quality video uploaded to YouTube, so I'll see if I can get a snapshot from the original videos and post it when I have time.

Thanks to all and Happy Holidays!
 
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