Hi Matt.
Please clarify "something like this"?
Sorry if some one tried to impose their stroke up on you. Each of us has to find our own way to move our cue in a straight line forward.
randyg
preshot routine
- Thread starter jcpoolgod
- Start date
Hi Matt.
Please clarify "something like this"?
Sorry if some one tried to impose their stroke up on you. Each of us has to find our own way to move our cue in a straight line forward.
randyg
FYI, there are some good video demonstrations (with explanations) and resources (articles) on this topic here:
Enjoy,
Dave
I do not want to hijack the op thread or bias them with my lack luster experience. I just want them to be aware of this happening. If you really want to know pm me and I will elaborate. Thank you and good luck to the op in their pursuit.
yes....and clearly u dont understand what im saying..........This part made me chuckle a little. Are a high quantity of steps important to you ?
its like in golf......they see the shot they wanna shoot....pick out the club they are gonna use......THEN they step up take a practice swing ...adress the ball....do some waggles or whatever....and then swing.....
or in basketball.....the players are at the freethrow line........then they see the shot.......THEN...........they maybe bounce the ball 3 times....then toss it up let it spin in their hands...then they shoot!
I am not talking about deciding on what english to use...and what my next shot is...or how hard im gonna shoot.
i am talking about a series of movements......AFTER. i have already figured what im gonna do out....
that way my mind doesnt recognize it as a new shot...it recognizes as the SAME thing it has done thousands of times before...
ill tell you what my steps were.....after i survey the table......and figure out what im gonna go..
1 put chalk down while im figuring out what to do...
2 step forward..0........pick up...chalk....
3 put chalk down...snap.....step back.....
4pump in the air
5 swing down on the shot
6 address ball...
7 practice stroke
-8 shoot
9 lift up
10put cue down.
pick up chalk...........continue...
notice i didnt say step one chaulk...step two shoot...and done
there are many steps...deliberate steps...its like a dance i want to be perfect....
and also....notice that the shot itself...is not the FINAL step..
it is in the middle...therefore giving it no more importantance than picking up the chaulk..and putting it down......
its like tricking your mind into believing that what its doing is the very same thing its done countless times before......detachment is the goal...
and my plan is to go through the many steps when i start to get nervous in a tourney...
maybe this clears up what i was trying to say...
and perhaps has stopped you from laughing at my improvement
i really like this thought...thanks
@jcpoolgod
hi,
I just can recommend to have a lesson with Randy Goettlicher. When i started in october 2009 again after a 10 years break, i just felt that something was going wrong. Talked to Randy about it- and he offered to have a look at a 1 minute video, where i was clearing a 9-ball game. He detected in this *Hobby Video*, that i *just* were using bad and non-repeatable eyepattern. I am still thanksful for it and furthermore very amazed how he was able to observe this from a short video.
So i can highly recommend a lesson with him-not just from *hear and read*, but from self made expirience,
lg
Ingo
hi,
I just can recommend to have a lesson with Randy Goettlicher. When i started in october 2009 again after a 10 years break, i just felt that something was going wrong. Talked to Randy about it- and he offered to have a look at a 1 minute video, where i was clearing a 9-ball game. He detected in this *Hobby Video*, that i *just* were using bad and non-repeatable eyepattern. I am still thanksful for it and furthermore very amazed how he was able to observe this from a short video.
So i can highly recommend a lesson with him-not just from *hear and read*, but from self made expirience,
lg
Ingo
Holy cow, did you miss your meds this morning? Take a deep breath and relax.
First off what I found humorous was your intent to "have many steps". To have "many steps" as a prerequisite is just plain rediculous. There's nothing wrong with having a PSR, mine is one I've used for probably 10+ years now and I've used one in golf (which i play to a reasonably high level) for longer than that. A PSR is something you develop as part of a training ritual and one that targets specifics needs in your routine to allow for consistency and replication under any and all circumstances. You have to work into one and develop one until it becomes second nature and requires little or no conscious thought. Its not something you write down like a grocery list and then just decide that's what I'm going to do.
Sheesh, with that attitude I suspect you could use work in other more important areas first. I wish you the best of luck.
First off what I found humorous was your intent to "have many steps". To have "many steps" as a prerequisite is just plain rediculous. There's nothing wrong with having a PSR, mine is one I've used for probably 10+ years now and I've used one in golf (which i play to a reasonably high level) for longer than that. A PSR is something you develop as part of a training ritual and one that targets specifics needs in your routine to allow for consistency and replication under any and all circumstances. You have to work into one and develop one until it becomes second nature and requires little or no conscious thought. Its not something you write down like a grocery list and then just decide that's what I'm going to do.
Sheesh, with that attitude I suspect you could use work in other more important areas first. I wish you the best of luck.
jdxprs
Banned
the whole idea behind a preshot routine is that no shot is easy, and every shot has the same importance.
Psr
Would someone describe what the "proper eye pattern" should be? In one of the previous posts I notced someone mentioned rapid eye movement back and forth from OB to CB and I find myself doing that , particularly if the shot is unusually difficult or obtaining position is tedious. But I do look at the OB last. Probably lack of confidence in execution.
Would someone describe what the "proper eye pattern" should be? In one of the previous posts I notced someone mentioned rapid eye movement back and forth from OB to CB and I find myself doing that , particularly if the shot is unusually difficult or obtaining position is tedious. But I do look at the OB last. Probably lack of confidence in execution.
See the eye pattern resource page. General "best practices" recommendations are described in detail.
Regards,
Dave
Truer words have never been spoken.
A very long time ago, I wrote my PSR in a word document and actually memorized it. What I recommend is for you to create your own. Write it down with your words, modify it as time goes on, using input from this forum, the Internet and your personal experience as well.
When you publish your written PSR in a new thread and ask how you can better it, you will get lots of suggestions. :wink:
When you publish your written PSR in a new thread and ask how you can better it, you will get lots of suggestions. :wink:
Fellow seeker
After reviewing hundreds of hours of professional players, focusing solely on their pre-shot routine, several things were observed. Observations can be important, but often don’t tell the whole story. Years ago I learned that it was a mistake to focus inward on technique instead of outwards on achieving a result. The most important insight found researching was related, it came from a YouTube video concerning pre-shot routine. Jimmy White and Ronnie O’Sullivan addressed the topic. Both admit they DON’T use one as a general practice. They both talked about stepping into the shot from behind the line, delivering a nice straight level stroke and staying down. Ronnie said he used a basic routine as a coping mechanism if he began to get off stroke. He believes in efficiency. Some things I remember from what he has said are: the need to have a stroke that bites the ball, chalking is important and commit to a shot while standing. These thoughts are outwards towards achieving a result, not inward.
My question turned to, what external focus should I select?, to keep me on track. A shot has two components, the pot and the shape. Each have their own degree of difficulty. I remember a professional golfer talking about putting. He talked about first learning to be accurate, knowing the ball’s path allows you to then switch your focus to the pace of the putt. On a pool table, a version of this makes sense. If the pot is difficult, first focus on the pace, then switch the actual execution phase to accurate straight through cueing, the pot. Vice versa, if pace is key, line up carefully first, then switch your focus to striking with the pace needed.
The game is so much bigger than the pre-shot routine, the stroke, or any individual part. When it flows and we become immersed in the game, the individual parts fall away. What emerges is magical, the balls dance and the interconnections create a morphing flow. The cue becomes an extension of your arm doing your will. Meanwhile your opponent is busy running down a list of preshot tasks, then running down a list of excuses, when a divided attention and focus lead to erratic results.
I could do worse than listen to Ronnie and Jimmy saying "keep it simple."
Despite spending all those hours studying top pros, and gleaning some of their habits, the keep it simple mantra, seems the single most relevant thread.
Part of the problem is when should a pre-shot routine start? Is it limited to the shot alone - after having committed? Habitual practices like chalking, checking the shot from both ends, planning out patterns and thinking at least 2 shots ahead, seem important, but maybe mindset is even more important. They say actions come out of our mental state and interpretation of contexts. Trying to apply a single process/routine over millions and millions of possible situations reveals a modern magic bullet mentality.
Two old adages ring true in the Ronnie/Jimmy mindset.
Don’t try to fix what ain’t broken.
And, cross your bridges when you come to them.
Proactive solutions are context based. Do you go through a checklist to walk across the room? Habitual movements are not conscious. Instead of asking "what did I do?" when we miss a shot, maybe you need to ask "what didn’t I do?" Your most likely answers are the 3 components revealed by the British duo. Did you walk into the shot? Did you stroke through truly? And, did you stay down through the stroke? Which DIDN’T you do, will identify most, if not all of your causes. Adding mentally taxing routines instead of paying attention to the actual details of the shot, is questionable.
Notice how good players find those little flecks of chalk on the table, bits of lint, smoothing the nap at other times. Checking out their tip, penciling on the chalk, not mashing on a layer; the devil is in the details, of the shot not the routine.
Take a close look at the shot, closer. The idea that we can do that, cognitive magnification, is important. We see things relative to other things, ask Einstein. Small details can become reference points. Things appear so much larger in relation to the tiny things. Lint, tiny flecks of chalk and those balls and pockets, so big beside them. Big balls, big pockets, usually on your best days. What do you see? Is your mindset letting you immerse yourself in the small details. Is the cue an extension of yourself? How much of it are you aware of naturally? Does it connect you, the cue ball and object balls into a choreographed dance on the green baize?
Each moment has its own needs for attention. We may need to zoom out to see the bigger picture, scoreboard, state of game/match. Problem balls, planning, strategy and tactics need their time and place in our thinking. Learning to shuttle our attention to the appropriate width and breadth each creating a specific perspective, is part of the process. It’s part of the immersive experience. Immersion takes time. Take time to get calm. Get comfortable at the table. How are you going to deliver an unhurried stroke if you are in anything other than an unhurried state of mind?
Just sharing. Hope you find something useful.
After reviewing hundreds of hours of professional players, focusing solely on their pre-shot routine, several things were observed. Observations can be important, but often don’t tell the whole story. Years ago I learned that it was a mistake to focus inward on technique instead of outwards on achieving a result. The most important insight found researching was related, it came from a YouTube video concerning pre-shot routine. Jimmy White and Ronnie O’Sullivan addressed the topic. Both admit they DON’T use one as a general practice. They both talked about stepping into the shot from behind the line, delivering a nice straight level stroke and staying down. Ronnie said he used a basic routine as a coping mechanism if he began to get off stroke. He believes in efficiency. Some things I remember from what he has said are: the need to have a stroke that bites the ball, chalking is important and commit to a shot while standing. These thoughts are outwards towards achieving a result, not inward.
My question turned to, what external focus should I select?, to keep me on track. A shot has two components, the pot and the shape. Each have their own degree of difficulty. I remember a professional golfer talking about putting. He talked about first learning to be accurate, knowing the ball’s path allows you to then switch your focus to the pace of the putt. On a pool table, a version of this makes sense. If the pot is difficult, first focus on the pace, then switch the actual execution phase to accurate straight through cueing, the pot. Vice versa, if pace is key, line up carefully first, then switch your focus to striking with the pace needed.
The game is so much bigger than the pre-shot routine, the stroke, or any individual part. When it flows and we become immersed in the game, the individual parts fall away. What emerges is magical, the balls dance and the interconnections create a morphing flow. The cue becomes an extension of your arm doing your will. Meanwhile your opponent is busy running down a list of preshot tasks, then running down a list of excuses, when a divided attention and focus lead to erratic results.
I could do worse than listen to Ronnie and Jimmy saying "keep it simple."
Despite spending all those hours studying top pros, and gleaning some of their habits, the keep it simple mantra, seems the single most relevant thread.
Part of the problem is when should a pre-shot routine start? Is it limited to the shot alone - after having committed? Habitual practices like chalking, checking the shot from both ends, planning out patterns and thinking at least 2 shots ahead, seem important, but maybe mindset is even more important. They say actions come out of our mental state and interpretation of contexts. Trying to apply a single process/routine over millions and millions of possible situations reveals a modern magic bullet mentality.
Two old adages ring true in the Ronnie/Jimmy mindset.
Don’t try to fix what ain’t broken.
And, cross your bridges when you come to them.
Proactive solutions are context based. Do you go through a checklist to walk across the room? Habitual movements are not conscious. Instead of asking "what did I do?" when we miss a shot, maybe you need to ask "what didn’t I do?" Your most likely answers are the 3 components revealed by the British duo. Did you walk into the shot? Did you stroke through truly? And, did you stay down through the stroke? Which DIDN’T you do, will identify most, if not all of your causes. Adding mentally taxing routines instead of paying attention to the actual details of the shot, is questionable.
Notice how good players find those little flecks of chalk on the table, bits of lint, smoothing the nap at other times. Checking out their tip, penciling on the chalk, not mashing on a layer; the devil is in the details, of the shot not the routine.
Take a close look at the shot, closer. The idea that we can do that, cognitive magnification, is important. We see things relative to other things, ask Einstein. Small details can become reference points. Things appear so much larger in relation to the tiny things. Lint, tiny flecks of chalk and those balls and pockets, so big beside them. Big balls, big pockets, usually on your best days. What do you see? Is your mindset letting you immerse yourself in the small details. Is the cue an extension of yourself? How much of it are you aware of naturally? Does it connect you, the cue ball and object balls into a choreographed dance on the green baize?
Each moment has its own needs for attention. We may need to zoom out to see the bigger picture, scoreboard, state of game/match. Problem balls, planning, strategy and tactics need their time and place in our thinking. Learning to shuttle our attention to the appropriate width and breadth each creating a specific perspective, is part of the process. It’s part of the immersive experience. Immersion takes time. Take time to get calm. Get comfortable at the table. How are you going to deliver an unhurried stroke if you are in anything other than an unhurried state of mind?
Just sharing. Hope you find something useful.
Imac007, Howdy;
Helluva first post. Well written and chock-full of good (to my thinking), information.
My Signature reads "Striving for a less complicated life since 1949". That doesn't
mean simple, nor having a set number of items, simply without confusion. I've
had struggles with a PSR myself, and decided to un-complicate it a while back,
apparently whatever it was I was doing was working prior to attempting and no matter
how much I tried to structure a PSR I was doing nothing but causing harm to my
game. All any of us can do is find what works for each of us. Being comfortable within
ones own self is paramount importance because if we ain't comfortable within
ourselves we won't be comfortable playing any game of pool or with life as we know it.
hank
Helluva first post. Well written and chock-full of good (to my thinking), information.
My Signature reads "Striving for a less complicated life since 1949". That doesn't
mean simple, nor having a set number of items, simply without confusion. I've
had struggles with a PSR myself, and decided to un-complicate it a while back,
apparently whatever it was I was doing was working prior to attempting and no matter
how much I tried to structure a PSR I was doing nothing but causing harm to my
game. All any of us can do is find what works for each of us. Being comfortable within
ones own self is paramount importance because if we ain't comfortable within
ourselves we won't be comfortable playing any game of pool or with life as we know it.
hank
Good post.
I once asked a master level professional player about his pre-shot routine and he told me he didn't have one. Watching various pro players over the years I'm convinced many of them do not have a PSR, based upon the way they often bob up and down and just plop down on the shots.
But for those of us who are not naturals/savants, I believe a PSR is essential. It's system to govern how we get all our body parts into shooting position for every shot in an attempt to achieve some level of consistency and precision.
I think for the average guy a PSR is a pretty good idea.
Lou Figueroa
The pros vary quite a lot. I think some common elements I observe are these:
1) Look from the ball to the pocket.
2) Look from the cueball to the object ball or cue ball target
3) Step into the shot along this line, not from the side.
4) Find the *exact* spot you are hitting on the cue ball
5) Come to rest before pulling the trigger.
That's what I seem to notice.
For me personally, I follow those steps, but expand them a little.
Like for step 3, stepping into the cue ball. What has been working well for me is this:
I look through the cueball down the line it will travel and try to see how much object ball I will hit while standing up.
All the while I have my back hand touching my hip on that side, with the cue across my body and the tip up.
I then step my back foot onto that shot line so my instep lands on the shot line.
I take a small step straight forward with my back foot. This creates a somewhat open stance, slightly in the direction of a snooker stance.
I then swing the cue onto the shot line (I'm right handed so the cue moves from left to right).
Once the cue is on the line I just bend at the waist, keep my back flat.
I sort of shift my weight back towards my back leg a tiny bit, just to make it straight.
When I'm down on the ball, I'm putting my energy into seeing the balls line up correctly. I'm "seeing" this through the cue ball. I'm essentially focusing like 85% on the extremely precise location on the cueball I want to hit. I make sure that if I stroke through that spot, that the cueball lines up right with the object ball.
I stop.
I fire, straight through that vision I have created.
Hope it helps!
KMRUNOUT
