God Given Talent

[Pangit]

Some people have it, that's why they are on TV.. Practice all the PRO instructional "aiming" method video's until the cows come home... it ain't gonna make a real difference. There are plenty of really good players that can take U to the woodshed rather frequently...at least where I play. It's between the ears. I don't even want to talk about 61 Rotation, played it for awhile. I got "schooled".

Lesson's aren't free...only cost my a few RED HORSE's. That's a pretty good deal...and I made a fast friend that will probably teach me a few tricks.

 

[Masayoshi]

Unlike other sports, most people have very few physical limitations in pool and thus nearly everyone is able to achieve a high level of play given enough practice and determination. As you said, it's all between the ears, but what is between the ears can be conditioned and trained, where as in something like basketball, you can't train yourself to be taller or have longer arms.

 

[Ratta]

Talent is overrated.
World-Champions are not born-World-Champions are made.
All is hard work.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

And I think we suspect what is between Pangit's ears.
I think God Air Barreled you Pangie.

 

[trob]

I got to kind of agree with the above... although i think an average joe can become a better player with aiming methods that our taught. They can practice until the cows come home and they are not going play like an Earl Strickland. That's god given talent combined with hard work.

 

[Black-Balled]

And I think we suspect what is between Pangit's ears.
I think God Air Barreled you Pangie.

I got to kind of agree with the above...

I agree with that too.

 

[8pack]

Talent is overrated.
World-Champions are not born-World-Champions are made.
All is hard work.

You are rite on there.While coordination plays a big part in it,hard work and dedication are the main factors in getting good at something. And that my friend is the truth .:smile:

 

[Mr. J]

God given gifts...

I knew this kid from long long ago...

He was so good at everything he ever tried...

When he was very little all the signs were there from very early on...

He could out run all the other kids at elementary school and anywhere he went...

Then he discovered discovered climbing trees and could and would climb all the tallest trees in the land...

Then he discovered marbles and was the best at that among all his little buddies too..

Then he and his friends would try to keep their balance walking on tops of fences , once again he was the who would never fall and seemed to have the best balance and concentration ....

Then he learned to ride a bike and soon was riding wheelies and doing jumps and beating all his little buddies there too...

Then this kid discovered skateboarding and you know the story...yes, he can do all the tricks and moves better than all the gang and is the leader again...

One day as time has moved on and this kid is older, he tries some shoot some free throws with a basketball...makes 29 in a row and never has really played the game seriously...

All these things must mean something and are all pieces to the puzzle...

Being born with something, and then with determination and confidence, and hard work can produce amazing results...

I still feel like that kid I was so long ago and sure has helped me with playing pool and competing with all the best players I can find...

I have defeated so many champions at all levels and I know I was born with something and was given a gift from the start so long ago...

Lucky me...

Mr J.

 

[Cdryden]

Talent is overrated.
World-Champions are not born-World-Champions are made.
All is hard work.

You got that right. Ask any pro if he got where he is at by everything being given to them. They worked very hard to get there.

 

[Black-Balled]

More than eleven thousand pounds sterling worth of silver is wasted every year in the course of the circulation of crowns, half-crowns, florins, shillings, and sixpences. One hundred sovereigns of the date of 1820, which were weighed in 1859 by Mr. Miller, showed a loss in weight through the wear of circulation which was estimated at £1 6s. 7d. There is, therefore, more waste produced in the circulation of gold and silver coins than is generally thought of. …

Mr. Miller some years ago made a number of precise experiments, from which it was ascertained that £100 worth of sovereigns lost £3 9s. 8.4d. of their value in a hundred years; similarly £100 worth of half-crowns lost £13 11s. 8.8d.; £100 worth of shillings, £36 14s. 3.1d.; and £100 worth of sixpences lost £50 18s. 9.8d. in value, or more than one-half in the hundred years.

– The World of Wonders, 1883

 

[Celtic]

You are rite on there.While coordination plays a big part in it,hard work and dedication are the main factors in getting good at something. And that my friend is the truth .:smile:

The players who get to the top obviously worked hard to get there but 99.999% of the players in the world can work just as hard as Alex P, SVB, or Souquet and never even come close to world champ level.

Sorry but this game is just like every other skill on the planet, it requires natural talent to be the best in the world. There are countless players out there that practice more then Chris Bartrum or Donny Mills can still cannot beat them with the 6 out in 10-ball.

I know people on this forum want to all feel all special and think that they could be just as good as SVB if only they practiced as much as he does and played in all the same events. They cannot, sorry to burst their dreamy little bubble.

I am sure if they really wanted to some of the more knowledgable old school players like Jay could clue people in. They probably have stories of tons of players they knew in the past that played huge amounts of pool but never came close to a Buddy Hall level of skill. I know that Bob Strachan who I hung out with for a while played constant pool for a living for over a decade and he freely admitted that there were players like Rempe, Buddy, and the other elites that he never had a chance against and simply could never have reached their level. He played no less pool then them, and he WAS a gifted player, but very few players have what it takes to truly be the best and for those who don't it does not matter how much you practice, you are not getting there.

The people who get to the top have the key components within them that allow that level to be reached. THEN they need to put in the tremendous amount of practice time into the game and harden their nerve in gambling sessions and competition to actually reach their potential. Most players in the world don't have the key components to ever reach that top level, it is simply not in them.

You got that right. Ask any pro if he got where he is at by everything being given to them. They worked very hard to get there.

"Every pro pool player praticed hard to become a pro. Thus everyone who practices hard can become a pro pool player." is a logical fallacy.

 

[Masirib5]

Some people have it, that's why they are on TV.. Practice all the PRO instructional "aiming" method video's until the cows come home... it ain't gonna make a real difference. There are plenty of really good players that can take U to the woodshed rather frequently...at least where I play. It's between the ears. I don't even want to talk about 61 Rotation, played it for awhile. I got "schooled".

Lesson's aren't free...only cost my a few RED HORSE's. That's a pretty good deal...and I made a fast friend that will probably teach me a few tricks.

Where do you play Pangit?

--Jeff

 

[JB Cases]

And still God said the meek shall inherit the Earth.....

 

[JB Cases]

The players who get to the top obviously worked hard to get there but 99.999% of the players in the world can work just as hard as Alex P, SVB, or Souquet and never even come close to world champ level.

Sorry but this game is just like every other skill on the planet, it requires natural talent to be the best in the world. There are countless players out there that practice more then Chris Bartrum or Donny Mills can still cannot beat them with the 6 out in 10-ball.

I know people on this forum want to all feel all special and think that they could be just as good as SVB if only they practiced as much as he does and played in all the same events. They cannot, sorry to burst their dreamy little bubble.

I am sure if they really wanted to some of the more knowledgable old school players like Jay could clue people in. They probably have stories of tons of players they knew in the past that played huge amounts of pool but never came close to a Buddy Hall level of skill. I know that Bob Strachan who I hung out with for a while played constant pool for a living for over a decade and he freely admitted that there were players like Rempe, Buddy, and the other elites that he never had a chance against and simply could never have reached their level. He played no less pool then them, and he WAS a gifted player, but very few players have what it takes to truly be the best and for those who don't it does not matter how much you practice, you are not getting there.

Not worth it. It's more than simply playing pool. It's also the experiences and mentors. Whatever hand/eye coordination is there doesn't account for much if the if the circumstances and opportunities are also not there.

 

[JB Cases]

Some people have it, that's why they are on TV.. Practice all the PRO instructional "aiming" method video's until the cows come home... it ain't gonna make a real difference. There are plenty of really good players that can take U to the woodshed rather frequently...at least where I play. It's between the ears. I don't even want to talk about 61 Rotation, played it for awhile. I got "schooled".

Lesson's aren't free...only cost my a few RED HORSE's. That's a pretty good deal...and I made a fast friend that will probably teach me a few tricks.

You sound awfully bitter. I love rotation and have won quite a bit of money at it. Maybe if you loved the game more you would learn to play it.

Getting taken to the woodshed is what everyone who really wants to get better has to go through. If you don't like getting beat then your choices are to quit or get better.

I choose getting better.

 

[Celtic]

Whatever hand/eye coordination is there doesn't account for much if the if the circumstances and opportunities are also not there.

Opportunity is obviously important. But then again New York, California, Texas, and Florida probably have more opportunity to find competition and mentors in the game then South Dakota, and yet the best player in the USA is not from New York or California or Florida or Texas.

And the idea that it is just "hand/eye coordination is a simplification and it is incorrect. The inner ability to excel at the game is more complex then that. Obviously Wayne Gretzky had hand/eye coordination, so does Tiger Woods, so does Roger Federer, but the chances are if Roger had of taken up Golf he would not have become Tiger Woods level, if Tiger had taken up Tennis he is probably not going to be the number 1 tennis player in the world for years straight, and if Wayne Gretzky took up golf or tennis instead of hockey he probably would not be world famous and hold world records in either sport.

Each sport takes a very specific type of mentality, a very specific type of brain make-up to excel at it. I took to pool very naturally and quickly became better then alot of people who had played alot more pool then me. In golf I have put in boat loads of practice and I still suck at the game. I was once a extremely good curler and became good very, very quickly at that game, and yet I have never been able to throw darts well despite playing the game quite abit. Every sport has its own unique aspects that each individuals brain has either a high or low capability in. Being good at one sport does not mean you will be good in another, and people who excel at sports such as the top pros normally focus on those sports because they take to them VERY quickly and realize they have abnormally high talents in them.

It is not just "hand/eye coordination", it is WAY more complex then that. The nuances that make a pro pool player have that potential within them is very specific to pool and simply not that generalized. Some peoples brains "just work" in certain games. Look at Chess, huge numbers of people try to reach the top of that game, very few players in the world show an abnormal talent for the game right from a young age and eventually become the top players in the world. Kasparov is not just the result of practice, there is something unique about guys like him. The top pool players are no different, they can do something that most people NEVER could.

 

[david(tx)]

Opportunity is obviously important. But then again New York, California, Texas, and Florida probably have more opportunity to find competition and mentors in the game then South Dakota, and yet the best player in the USA is not from New York or California or Florida or Texas.

And the idea that it is just "hand/eye coordination is a simplification and it is incorrect. The inner ability to excel at the game is more complex then that. Obviously Wayne Gretzky had hand/eye coordination, so does Tiger Woods, so does Roger Federer, but the chances are if Roger had of taken up Golf he would not have become Tiger Woods level, if Tiger had taken up Tennis he is probably not going to be the number 1 tennis player in the world for years straight, and if Wayne Gretzky took up golf or tennis instead of hockey he probably would not be world famous and hold world records in either sport.

Each sport takes a very specific type of mentality, a very specific type of brain make-up to excel at it. I took to pool very naturally and quickly became better then alot of people who had played alot more pool then me. In golf I have put in boat loads of practice and I still suck at the game. I was once a extremely good curler and became good very, very quickly at that game, and yet I have never been able to throw darts well despite playing the game quite abit. Every sport has its own unique aspects that each individuals brain has either a high or low capability in. Being good at one sport does not mean you will be good in another, and people who excel at sports such as the top pros normally focus on those sports because they take to them VERY quickly and realize they have abnormally high talents in them.

It is not just "hand/eye coordination", it is WAY more complex then that. The nuances that make a pro pool player have that potential within them is very specific to pool and simply not that generalized. Some peoples brains "just work" in certain games. Look at Chess, huge numbers of people try to reach the top of that game, very few players in the world show an abnormal talent for the game right from a young age and eventually become the top players in the world. Kasparov is not just the result of practice, there is something unique about guys like him. The top pool players are no different, they can do something that most people NEVER could.

Shane's parents were pool players , so the opportunity and circumstances were there.

 

[8pack]

The players who get to the top obviously worked hard to get there but 99.999% of the players in the world can work just as hard as Alex P, SVB, or Souquet and never even come close to world champ level.

Sorry but this game is just like every other skill on the planet, it requires natural talent to be the best in the world. There are countless players out there that practice more then Chris Bartrum or Donny Mills can still cannot beat them with the 6 out in 10-ball.

I know people on this forum want to all feel all special and think that they could be just as good as SVB if only they practiced as much as he does and played in all the same events. They cannot, sorry to burst their dreamy little bubble.

I am sure if they really wanted to some of the more knowledgable old school players like Jay could clue people in. They probably have stories of tons of players they knew in the past that played huge amounts of pool but never came close to a Buddy Hall level of skill. I know that Bob Strachan who I hung out with for a while played constant pool for a living for over a decade and he freely admitted that there were players like Rempe, Buddy, and the other elites that he never had a chance against and simply could never have reached their level. He played no less pool then them, and he WAS a gifted player, but very few players have what it takes to truly be the best and for those who don't it does not matter how much you practice, you are not getting there.

The people who get to the top have the key components within them that allow that level to be reached. THEN they need to put in the tremendous amount of practice time into the game and harden their nerve in gambling sessions and competition to actually reach their potential. Most players in the world don't have the key components to ever reach that top level, it is simply not in them.



"Every pro pool player praticed hard to become a pro. Thus everyone who practices hard can become a pro pool player." is a logical fallacy.

Natural talent what is that exactly.Where not born what we become.Not really.Michael Jordan has probably more Hand and i coordination then anyone on this forum.His physical ability is probably a lot greater then anyone here. I would feel safe spotting him half the rack in 9 ball .:smile:

 

[Bambu]

Quick story here about talent. An A+ cash player is mildly bragging about back in the day when he was climbing the local ladder and nobody could beat him. One day he starts hearing about this guy who could supposedly beat him, some guy named lenny. So he thinks to himself, theres only one lenny I know, and he is the worst shooter in the house! Cant be him, no way in hell. So who is this guy? The legend of lenny grows, and my friend wants to play him. The day he finally gets to play lenny, he gets his ass handed to him. Turns out they knew each other very well, it was the old lenny who had evolved to run 200+ balls!

 

[JB Cases]

Opportunity is obviously important. But then again New York, California, Texas, and Florida probably have more opportunity to find competition and mentors in the game then South Dakota, and yet the best player in the USA is not from New York or California or Florida or Texas.

Um Shane's family are all top players. Opportunity and mentoring. On top of that there is PLENTY of top flight competition where Shane is from all within an 8 hour drive or less from his front door.

And the idea that it is just "hand/eye coordination is a simplification and it is incorrect. The inner ability to excel at the game is more complex then that. Obviously Wayne Gretzky had hand/eye coordination, so does Tiger Woods, so does Roger Federer, but the chances are if Roger had of taken up Golf he would not have become Tiger Woods level, if Tiger had taken up Tennis he is probably not going to be the number 1 tennis player in the world for years straight, and if Wayne Gretzky took up golf or tennis instead of hockey he probably would not be world famous and hold world records in either sport.

How do you know? Care to make a few bets? I will bet that if you give me 24 hours I will find people who have performed at a world class level in more than one sport. And for our purposes we will define sport as something requiring physical dexterity beyond acting as in poker. Bet lunch?

Each sport takes a very specific type of mentality, a very specific type of brain make-up to excel at it.

A specific type of brain? So there is a golf brain and a baseball brain? Dude really man you should try some reading up on the research before making comments like that.

I took to pool very naturally and quickly became better then alot of people who had played alot more pool then me. In golf I have put in boat loads of practice and I still suck at the game. I was once a extremely good curler and became good very, very quickly at that game, and yet I have never been able to throw darts well despite playing the game quite abit. Every sport has its own unique aspects that each individuals brain has either a high or low capability in. Being good at one sport does not mean you will be good in another, and people who excel at sports such as the top pros normally focus on those sports because they take to them VERY quickly and realize they have abnormally high talents in them.

No being "good" at one thing does not mean you will be good at another one. But it doesn't mean you can't be good at another one either.

I'd say people take to whatever the first thing is that they LIKE which they are also able to do successfully to some degree, i.e. that which entertains them. Desire is the strongest motivator for success, moreso than talent.

It is not just "hand/eye coordination", it is WAY more complex then that. The nuances that make a pro pool player have that potential within them is very specific to pool and simply not that generalized. Some peoples brains "just work" in certain games.

Do you have any proof of this or is this just your opinion? I ask because the research indicates otherwise. There have been hundreds of studies looking for "talent" or amazing brains and in fact what they find is that most top performers did have different brains in that they have a higher amount of myelin which is produced they guess by stimulation caused by long and deep practice. So it seems not as if some brains just work for certain games so much as some brains are just faster when the brain power is applied to a task in a very focused and mentored manner.

Look at Chess, huge numbers of people try to reach the top of that game, very few players in the world show an abnormal talent for the game right from a young age and eventually become the top players in the world. Kasparov is not just the result of practice, there is something unique about guys like him. The top pool players are no different, they can do something that most people NEVER could.

Yes, look at Chess. I think you will find that the research already done on chess players refutes everything you just said.