Notice The Top Pros Jumping Less?

I hadn't seen johnny archer jump much before the last tar match, but he dug out ol' shorty many times during these days.

Johnnyt... If your theory is they started jumping all the time because it was the cool fad and they got suckered in by the gimmick, then smartened up and realized it was never as good as kicking... you're really selling the top pros short.

They don't take a flyer at anything. They don't settle for random, unpredictable outcomes. They would have stopped jumping after a week if they decided the leave was an uncontrollable 'crapshoot'. They wouldn't have waited several years after jump cues became popular.
 
risky biz said:
The best idea they have is that it is, hopefully, going to stay on the table.
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I'm assuming that was sarcasm....? Or you may be insane if you believe that. :)

I'm certainly no pro and even I jump with english, spin and/or masse. Jump to make balls and play position afterwards. Jumping with trajectory is another key ability.

Its not much different than any other shot, more difficult to be as precise for sure but that where you judge the risk rewards.

For the record I also kick with ball contact and position in mind as well. There's just no one who I would consider to be even halfway 'good' that blindly jumps or kicks wildly.
 
RRfireblade said:
I'm assuming that was sarcasm....? Or you may be insane if you believe that. :)

I'm certainly no pro and even I jump with english, spin and/or masse. Jump to make balls and play position afterwards. Jumping with trajectory is another key ability.

Its not much different than any other shot, more difficult to be as precise for sure but that where you judge the risk rewards.

For the record I also kick with ball contact and position in mind as well. There's just no one who I would consider to be even halfway 'good' that blindly jumps or kicks wildly.
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I wonder why they don't control it so often.

Maybe they aren't as good as you.
 
I'm certainly no pro, but I've always treated kicks/jumps with the easiest hit vs best hit scenario. Most of the time the best hit is a kick and that is why I rarely go for the jump. I go for the jump when I believe I have a high chance of making the shot and shape on the next shot.
 
Chopdoc said:
I am more curious about how and why jump shots and/or jump cues are controversial at all. I have never understood that.
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anything that damages the equipment when used as intended should be against the rules....

I prefer a more elegant solution myself...

one cue per player, per match
 
softshot said:
anything that damages the equipment when used as intended should be against the rules....

I prefer a more elegant solution myself...

one cue per player, per match
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I'm certainly not a big proponent of jumping but I have to ask, exactly what do you think should be against the rules - jumping or the jump cue?

The one cue concept you mentioned seems to suggest you are against the jump cue but it doesn't preclude one from jumping with their playing cue, and this too can damage the equipment. So I'm not so sure where you're at with this.

Thanks.
 
RRfireblade said:
Who says 'they' dont?

And who is 'they' ?

Maybe you just need to watch people who can play. :)
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There are plenty of videos of top pros making jump shots that completely miss the object ball or hit it and miss the pocket by a foot and a half, sometimes with balls going off the table, even. You're in denial.
 
risky biz said:
There are plenty of videos of top pros making jump shots that completely miss the object ball or hit it and miss the pocket by a foot and a half, sometimes with balls going off the table, even. You're in denial.
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You can find more videos of top pros missing the object ball on kicks or missing the pocket by more than a foot and a half. By your standards, maybe we should just give ball in hand to anyone that makes a safety. Some top pros are very good at jumps, some aren't. The ones you see missing object balls and missing by a mile are more than likely the ones that aren't. If you want to see a good jumper who jumps with control, watch Yang Chin Shun. He rarely misses a jump, and when he does it's not by much. I don't think I've ever seen him jump a ball off the table and he plays position very well.
 
Good points by all.....firstly I don't like jump cues and was one who waited years after they became popular to start carrying one....full cue jumps should be allowed for sure....I believe that eventually top level events will ban jump cues as many already do...I had one other thought as to why maybe there is not as much jumping by the top players in the top events....two desperate thoughts actually...I am not saying that players are jumping more or less than in the past, but I think jumps were a higher percentage when playing 9 ball as opposed to 10 ball because of the no slop call pocket aspect of 10 ball...when slop counts in nine ball and usually the jump shot is executed with above average speed???? Not always but usually jumps are fired at a hotter speed than normal clear shot pocket speed....I said normally...obviously some clear shots are fired hard for position purposes and such....but most jump shots would be considered coming in hot...lol....the other thought was the small pocketed harder playing tables that are becoming so prevalent in the higher level events today...it is hard enough on the TAR table...Hard Times...CBC...etc...as u can clearly see even the best of the best don't wanna be firing balls at these difficult pockets even when they have perfect position....simply because if u have to fire a hot one for whatever reason...the chances of a rattled ball increases exponentially...as I said this is true with good position and open shots....jump shots surely must be more difficult not only on a speed basis....but on an accuracy basis!!!IMO JUST A THOUGHT

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
nineballtko said:
Good points by all.....firstly I don't like jump cues and was one who waited years after they became popular to start carrying one....full cue jumps should be allowed for sure....I believe that eventually top level events will ban jump cues as many already do...I had one other thought as to why maybe there is not as much jumping by the top players in the top events....two desperate thoughts actually...I am not saying that players are jumping more or less than in the past, but I think jumps were a higher percentage when playing 9 ball as opposed to 10 ball because of the no slop call pocket aspect of 10 ball...when slop counts in nine ball and usually the jump shot is executed with above average speed???? Not always but usually jumps are fired at a hotter speed than normal clear shot pocket speed....I said normally...obviously some clear shots are fired hard for position purposes and such....but most jump shots would be considered coming in hot...lol....the other thought was the small pocketed harder playing tables that are becoming so prevalent in the higher level events today...it is hard enough on the TAR table...Hard Times...CBC...etc...as u can clearly see even the best of the best don't wanna be firing balls at these difficult pockets even when they have perfect position....simply because if u have to fire a hot one for whatever reason...the chances of a rattled ball increases exponentially...as I said this is true with good position and open shots....jump shots surely must be more difficult not only on a speed basis....but on an accuracy basis!!!IMO JUST A THOUGHT

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
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Good post. I also think someone might have done some stats on a few pros and told them how bad there percentage was of something good or bad happening. In most cases i'd rather tie up balls and give BIH if the ball wasn't almost in the pockets and position was a given. Slide down to A and B players and I see more sellouts using the jump cue than games won with it by far. Johnnyt
 
I still don't understand the controversy or dislike. It's even to the point of throwing around insulting accusations, which is sad I think.

Back in the eighties when I first saw a successful jump get a player out of trouble I though "I want to learn that". So I taught myself, with my playing cue. It honestly wasn't that difficult to learn to do it well, But I was practicing pool many hours at the time.

It was several years before I bought a jump cue. I still have it and have no desire for another. Even after I ordered it from Dan Janes I mainly used my old JOSS to jump. Most of the jumps that jump cue has made were actually for trick shots, not in games. In games I would still usually use my playing cue if I determined my best strategy was to jump.

The jump is simply a shot, another skill at the table like any other. Just as with the Masse there is a special cue available for such shots.

The jump shot is not often the best strategy in a game and is often used when it need not be by players of lower skill or players that more recently learned it. That's just a function of lower skill, that's all. With practice most will grow beyond that and use such shots in a more discriminating way.

Why does anybody get fired up at all about the use of the jump? I understand if it is used when it need not be that it might be irritating to see a poor shot choice....but if you are not the one making the poor choice why are you so upset about it?

Then there is the matter of the jump cue. If the jump is, on that occasion, a good option and one has a jump cue I don't understand why people get upset about it being used.

Equipment has evolved. I am old school but even I give way to that. I see the modern cue for pool as actually a minimum of four cues. The playing cue, the break cue, the masse cue, and the jump cue. One could perhaps additionally make the argument for different shafts on the playing cue for different games. One should be familiar with and proficient with all of them and the shots that go with them if one is to be a "complete" player. There is obviously something to be said for being proficient with one's playing cue and one should be able to play any game with nothing but that. But at it's highest level I think that is a silly limitation. A good golfer can play 18 holes with a nine iron and do it quite nicely, but other than making a demonstration, should he?

I can't play like I used to, but when I could play well I really wasn't bothered by any rules against masse and jump shots, but I certainly wasn't bothered by them being allowed either. If allowed I used such a shot if it were the best option for me at the time. The same was true for their associated cues.

I understand that people are bothered by such things. This is obvious. They even go on to the point of insulting people over it. I am really curious about why that is. I have never seen a reasonable explanation of it.
 
risky biz said:
There are plenty of videos of top pros making jump shots that completely miss the object ball or hit it and miss the pocket by a foot and a half, sometimes with balls going off the table, even. You're in denial.
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Your quite "special" aren't you? ;)

Interesting how you can't find a single video of a Pro missing a straight in shot..... Uh oh, I think we've destroyed your entire premise.

Sorry about that. :)

risky biz said:
The best idea they have is that it is, hopefully, going to stay on the table.
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It strange how there are hundreds of thousands of videos of people, not even pros, making jump shots AND getting shape.

Holy cow... ! There are even instructional DVD showing how to do it !!! HOW IS THIS HAPPENING !!! THE SKY IS FALLING !!!!!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhh...................
 
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Chopdoc said:
I still don't understand the controversy or dislike. It's even to the point of throwing around insulting accusations, which is sad I think.

Why does anybody get fired up at all about the use of the jump? I understand if it is used when it need not be that it might be irritating to see a poor shot choice....but if you are not the one making the poor choice why are you so upset about it?

Then there is the matter of the jump cue. If the jump is, on that occasion, a good option and one has a jump cue I don't understand why people get upset about it being used.

I understand that people are bothered by such things. This is obvious. They even go on to the point of insulting people over it. I am really curious about why that is. I have never seen a reasonable explanation of it.
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Because I don't like hearing billiard balls bouncing around on the table. If you want to watch bouncing balls why don't you play basketball?
 
RRfireblade said:
Interesting how you can't find a single video of a Pro missing a straight in shot..... Uh oh, I think we've destroyed your entire premise.

Sorry about that. :)
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That's unadulterated poop. Anyone who has watched any match live or videos have seen plenty of examples of pros missing the object ball completely. So you can say "destroyed your entire premise" all you want but anyone reading what you're saying knows you're wrong.

But it's interesting that you're now revising your pretension to "a straight in shot".
 
Because I don't like hearing billiard balls bouncing around on the table. If you want to watch bouncing balls why don't you play basketball?
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I don't want to watch or hear bouncing balls. I like to play pool. On the rare occasion it might call for a ball to be jumped.

So you say you have issues hearing it? It's a spectatorship problem? I'm sorry I can't relate. I have never been much of a spectator. I will say that the sound of balls bouncing on slate is a bit annoying, but jump shots are unusual and I would say there are probably more annoying things that happen much more more often in the course of play in my experience.

Since one knows the jump shot is coming, and the sound is a problem...couldn't one just cover one's ears?
.
 
risky biz said:
Because I don't like hearing billiard balls bouncing around on the table. If you want to watch bouncing balls why don't you play basketball?
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Why didn't you just say that in the first place? "I don't like it" is a better argument than using faulty logic to try to justify why the players shouldn't be doing it.
 
I'm not going to get on either side of the fence on jump cues/shots. But I will say this: I've successfully jumped and hit the last 7 or 8 balls I jumped at in Masters league (even made a couple of them). I can say that without a doubt, because of the proximity of other balls around the cueball or object ball, I would NOT have successfully kicked-at and made a good hit in those 7 or 8 shots.

For whatever that's worth!!!

Edit: I forgot to mention that in more than half of the matches I play, I never even have to reach for the jump cue. But then, there ARE those times when a kick-shot just won't do.

Maniac
 
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