Use of Nelsonite or Resolute

Nelsonite or Resolute / Yes or No

  • No and I have been building cues for over 10 years

    Votes: 14 28.6%
  • No and I have been building cues less than 10 years

    Votes: 21 42.9%
  • Yes and I have been building cues for over 10 years

    Votes: 7 14.3%
  • Yes and I have been building cues less than 10 years

    Votes: 7 14.3%

  • Total voters
    49
  • Poll closed .

scdiveteam

Rick Geschrey
Silver Member
Hi,

I have always wondered about what percentage of Cue Makers use these wood stabilizers.

Please don't hesitate to give your views on the subject.

One vote only and your name will not be known unless you post and give your 2 cents on the subject.

I think this could be interesting to see everyone's shared polling facts and or opinions.

Rick G
 
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The only thing you're going to get are AZ users and not the lions share of the market because a lot of cue makers don't frequent this forum. I can name a bunch of cue makers who would never paticipate. Oh well, it should prove to be interesting and who knows what.
 
The only thing you're going to get are AZ users and not the lions share of the market because a lot of cue makers don't frequent this forum. I can name a bunch of cue makers who would never paticipate. Oh well, it should prove to be interesting and who knows what.

Point well taken. Could you give us a rough guess of the percentage of your customers using them?

Could be interesting to compare!

Larry
 
The only thing you're going to get are AZ users and not the lions share of the market because a lot of cue makers don't frequent this forum. I can name a bunch of cue makers who would never paticipate. Oh well, it should prove to be interesting and who knows what.

Joe,

You are right, a lot of the top tier made guys don't post hear but many of them do have accounts and lurk.

It would be cool if we got some feedback from some top tier lurker's who might want to share in a post. Not too likely, I agree.

This is a very critical aspect of shaft handling and processing so you know everyone has an opinion. I myself live in the midwest and like to have my shaft wood go "al natural". Maybe living in a very dry or very humid region would make me change my mind.

Regards,

Rick
 
Point well taken. Could you give us a rough guess of the percentage of your customers using them?

Could be interesting to compare!

Larry


I don't have that data. And then you have to also take into account how many cue makers don't dip their shafts but buy our already dipped shafts. The poll should read how many dip their own or buy already dipped.

We order resolute in 5 gallon pails and 30 fit on a pallet. So we get in 150 gallons at a time. We do this 4 times a year or approximately 600 gallons annually. Now, we have to admit that we do sell a small percentage to people outside of cue building. And of the 600 gallons we're using a portion of it ourselves for our dipped shafts that we sell. I would venture to say that 450 to 500 gallons are going out to the industry.

I don't think this poll will be indicative of the industry as a whole. You're leaving out a vast percentage of viable cue makers.
 
Joe,

You are right, a lot of the top tier made guys don't post hear but many of them do have accounts and lurk.

It would be cool if we got some feedback from some top tier lurker's who might want to share in a post. Not too likely, I agree.

This is a very critical aspect of shaft handling and processing so you know everyone has an opinion. I myself live in the midwest and like to have my shaft wood go "al natural". Maybe living in a very dry or very humid region would make me change my mind.

Regards,

Rick


Rick,

A lot of the top tier guys came up the hard way; before the internet when sharing info was not the norm and many have their own kooky way of doing things. Sharing is not in their best interest. Quite frankly, I don't think sharing is in anyone's best interet as it opens you up to criticism correct or incorrect. It' s a can of worms.

You made a valid point that you live in the midwest so you feel that you don't need any treatment to your shafts and that may be great. However, what happens when one of your cues goes to Key West or Vegas where you have extreme differences in temperature.

I have been fortunate enough to have lived in Boca Raton (South Florida, the humidity capital) and Las Vegas (the dry capital). By actually building parts and cues in both climates offerd me a vast field of experience and knowledge. And, let me tell you there is a tremendous difference to building parts and cues in both areas. Shaft treatment prevented all type of problems as we ran tests and we were best sealing and treating in these areas. We were confident that our shafts would hold up in any climate.

We are now offering all natural shafts as part of our inventory due to the fact that we found a safer treatment so we are disposing of our Resolute inventory. I still feel that treatment is better than no treatment. Our new product is excellent, safe, odorless, colorless, does not tone the wood and dries fast. If you don't deeply seal your shafts with something, it's asking for trouble; IMHO of course.
 
When I apprenticed through Zeiler , we were dipping shafts on Nelsonite OUTSIDE of the shop. It's one nasty chemical. Eventually, Zeiler it wasn't worth the trouble. I haven't touched it since.
I use Hydrocote ( http://hydrocote.com/our-products.htm ) occasionally and home made sauce at the end 100% of the time.
Sealing or re-hydrating even I think is not a one-size fits all topic.
So, do your own experimentation. No PM's please.

Before you do some experimentation b/c your reject ratio of shafts is too high, you might need to first check your supplier of shafts on how he's cutting his lumber and drying them. If you get your shafts from Champeau, Dominiak or any other supplier on ACA list, I would assume they know what they are doing .
http://champeau.com/en/product_billiard.php
http://champeau.com/en/product_billiard.php
http://www.cuemakers.org/roster.php
Then you might wanna check how you center dowels.
If you just chuck them 1" dowels and center them with your tailstock, you might wanna mount a router with a center drill on the tool post. Then youre seasoning process maybe. I am going to guess more shafts warp b/c of improper centers more than any other causes.



Tad Kohara imo has the most stable shafts. I just re-tapered one and I did not smell Nelsonite from it.
 
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If you're rejecting too much of your shaft wood then it's not properly dried. That's why we wrote Stress Relieving Maple before anyone knew what stress relief was.

A wood stablizing product needs to be a very low viscosity liquid that is formulated to deeply penetrate the wood surface/fibers. Wood sealers mostly just seal the top or outer surface of the wood. If you're going to do a job there is nothing like using the right tools for the specific job in question. Wood sealers are probably good for a top coat just before final preparation. Cutting corners and thinking a wood sealer will do the same job as a product manufactured to deeply penetrate the wood to protect and preserve the wood to the core are two very different products. Let's not try to use a hammer when we need a screwdriver.
 
Okay, this is probably a no brainer asked a million times with an answer ready to zip right out.

I can understand how a deep penetrateing sealer works as I have used a randon sealer on concrete that penetrates as much as 4 inches, you go below that 4 inches and it does nothing.

If you soak your shafts in a high penetrateing sealer and cut it away how does it help the wood undernieth? If the chemical underneith is still working I would think it would be absorbed into your hands meaning every shaft it is used on should come with an MSDS sheet?

I am old school, I expect a percentage not to make it but feel the ones that were brought up n the Bronx so to speak will be able to take on the world.

I also feel a small percentage of moisture is needed in the wood and allowed to breath as I was taught, no moisture, dead wood, dead wood no hit so good.

If someone can convince me otherwise I will have my plant in Jax start blending it like crazy.
 
Okay, this is probably a no brainer asked a million times with an answer ready to zip right out.

I can understand how a deep penetrateing sealer works as I have used a randon sealer on concrete that penetrates as much as 4 inches, you go below that 4 inches and it does nothing.

If you soak your shafts in a high penetrateing sealer and cut it away how does it help the wood undernieth? If the chemical underneith is still working I would think it would be absorbed into your hands meaning every shaft it is used on should come with an MSDS sheet?

I am old school, I expect a percentage not to make it but feel the ones that were brought up n the Bronx so to speak will be able to take on the world.

I also feel a small percentage of moisture is needed in the wood and allowed to breath as I was taught, no moisture, dead wood, dead wood no hit so good.

If someone can convince me otherwise I will have my plant in Jax start blending it like crazy.
As far as Neslonite,
Nelsonite displaces moisture inside the wood.
You can see bubbles come up when you submerge wood in the tank.
http://www.conwaycleveland.com/wood_stabilizers.html

Cancer ain't no fun.
NAPTHA is some serious crap.
Maybe Kevin Trudeau can will soon have Natural Cures Nelsonite.

Wood warps almost always "warps" following it's grain.
 
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Okay, this is probably a no brainer asked a million times with an answer ready to zip right out.

I can understand how a deep penetrateing sealer works as I have used a randon sealer on concrete that penetrates as much as 4 inches, you go below that 4 inches and it does nothing.

If you soak your shafts in a high penetrateing sealer and cut it away how does it help the wood undernieth? If the chemical underneith is still working I would think it would be absorbed into your hands meaning every shaft it is used on should come with an MSDS sheet?

I am old school, I expect a percentage not to make it but feel the ones that were brought up n the Bronx so to speak will be able to take on the world.

I also feel a small percentage of moisture is needed in the wood and allowed to breath as I was taught, no moisture, dead wood, dead wood no hit so good.

If someone can convince me otherwise I will have my plant in Jax start blending it like crazy.

Tom,

That's why you dip shafts twice. Once around .750 and lastly around .575 so that the treated shaft is covered. If you're losing shaft wood then it's not properly dried; period. The sealants just help the stability process and in fact our new product strengthens the shaft. You either use something or you don't. The effects between the two are negligable (if any) in terms of hit. I don't think anyone can feel or tell the difference. It's sort of like someone stating that they can tell the sound difference in shafts with their ears (by bouncing shaft dowels). I just grin and say, yeah, right, ok, sure.

Dead wood is that timeless timber that was soaked at the bottom of lake Michigan or wherever it came from. That is dead wood. UGH! No matter what you do to a shaft there will probably be some moisture in it but you want to reduce moisture from penetrating after the fact and that will help keep it stable.

Old school is good but new technology with drying wood is new school. So, with today's modern conveniences like the car and airplane we can expect our wood to be almost 100% stable and acceptable with very little loss.

Nelsonite is very dangerous. Resolute is less dangerous but still dangerous. Buying shafts already dipped is a lot less dangerous than dipping them yourself. Auto clear coat is dangerous. Cyanoacrylate is dangerous. Cocobolo wood dust is very dangerous. Wood dust in general is dangerous. The whole business of building a cue is dangerous. We reduce the dangers by either using protective gear if you can afford the proper set-up or you do without. If you do without, that's fine too. Using or not using a product does not make you any better or worse a cue maker but some products make your product more stable. Some have found substitutes, some don't care and some do. And on that note.....

It's Friday, 4:30pm and I am outta here. I wish you all a wonderful weekend. I'll try to check back later
 
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Joe,

I must say, very well written. I have also been to your Web Site many times and see you cater to both the believers and non believers for the shafts as any good businessman would.

I am still a believer in what Joey said about following the grain but I do have to compliment you on what you have written. Good job.
 
I like the way the Resolute gets into the shafts and doesnt discolor them. If there is a possibility that sealing the shaft will help prevent warping from moisture exchange, then of course Im going to do so.

I have cut shaft blanks, early on in my building, that were dipped in nelsonite, and I like the way Resolute acts with the shafts personally, IMO. Now I cut all my own shafts and dip them twice, the resolute does a nice job for me. Before I discovered or used the Resolute, I couldnt find nelsonite locally, so I was using thinned sanding sealer, not quite as good but live and learn.

I will have to give a shameless plug, I have not had more than 3 shaft blanks, maybe, that have been unusable from Cue Comp, the quality is great. Of course there are a myriad of factors that can affect if the shaft wood will warp, cutting to fast, passes to big etc etc, but I have had very nice shaft wood from Joe :grin:. Now let the flaming begin !!!
 
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I'd like to first comment on what Tom said about, "following the grain". This is very true. You should center drill based on 'following the grain'. This is absolutely necessary when you have grain run-off. Grain run-off usually occurs in lower grade and/or less expensive shaft wood squares. When you have to 'follow the grain' you have shafts turning off center, hopping along on your lathe while you're turning them true. They'll be out of round for several cuts until you cut the run-off out of the square. Now, if this is your cup of tea, hey go for it.

I like to think in terms of dollars and sense. My time is worth so much and the less of my time I can use for what I like to term 'busy work', the more time I can spend in more productive areas. For example, I'd much rather spend $8 or $10 for a shaft and get straight grain than buy $4 or $6 shafts with run-off that I have to correct. The extra two or five dollars spent saves me hours of my time (following the grain) which is certainly worth more than I save buying lower priced wood. Some think just the opposite and that's fine. My time is better spent in 100% productive areas moving forward. Cue building is hard enough without having to correct what can be purchased correctly by paying a few dollars more. We have to utilize our time in the most productive areas. Chasing the grain, is in my opinion, a waste of my time when I can cut a straight grained shaft directly in the center without having to figure out where to center drill each stick individually. But hey, that's just me.

And then there is nothing wrong with buying $4 or $6 shafts if you're building sneaky petes, converting house cues or just beginning. Some cue makers have been doing this for 10 years and insist on buying the least expensive shafts and making them better by following the grain. Once again, if the results end in a quality shaft, you've done your job. I just think my time is better spend in other areas.

I'd like to comment next on Tony's post and thank him for the plug. We all learn by our mistakes and this forum can be invaluable when people stay on topic and put their inner hostilities aside for the better of the community as a whole.

As far as letting the "flaming begin", I'd like to think we're all past that and many of us realize that 'flame wars' do nothing to serve the community as a whole. They take an otherwise useful topic and dilute it with unnecessary nonsense aside from being counter productive. Focusing on the positives of playing pool and building cues is so much more fun and engaging. By avoiding the flaming, perhaps many other established cue makers will participate without fear of reprisal or being flamed themselves. There is no reason we can't all just get along and no I'm not quoting Rodney King. :grin:

In the past few threads which I've participated, they've stayed on topic, great information was exchanged and opinions were respected. It's really not all that difficult. We have to tame this and avoid the wild, wild west approach.

In the spirit of good dialogue, intelligent conversation and exchanging opinions in a productive manner, I hope many of you can agree.
 
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I also have to say I have been more than pleased with all my dealings with Joe and cc, an I would like to think they have been pretty significant.
In fact I just got a couple cored coco fronts. Both very nice, with one really wild piece!!
Will probably order more wood from Joe this week.


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?rzgsrp
 
Joe I'm sorry I should have clarified. When I mentioned flaming I meant my comments. I had a couple of threads get hammered and nothing productive came of it. Lately these people have been quiet and good information and dialogue can take place. Good to see you participating again Joe!
 
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