I think Mikey was being sarcastic.
Which 8 Ball rules for TAR 28?
- Thread starter JCIN
- Start date
I think Mikey was being sarcastic.
I know so was I. They won't even B&R 50%, probably not even the 30% they did in the IPT. I was just showing how some people sound saying it's gonna be a runout fest or they're gonna be running out from everywhere. Statistics show that not even the pros run out as much as people think even with the "easier" rules as some have implied.
I wasn't aware that Celtic was a pro.
To me this is the best post in the entire thread. It takes a good bit of eight ball skills to win a game where there is no instant runout. Making a ball on the break still gives you the opportunity to do something even if there is no chance to runout. This is what eight ball is all about. Using your eight ball skills to win a game that appears to be a certain loss by utilizing your knowledge and understanding of the game to give yourself a good chance to win a game that game.
Some here call open after the break as regular eight ball. I've been playing for over 50 years and for me regular eight ball is you got what you make. And yes, against a week player I would prefer open after the break and against a strong player, my choice is you got what you make.
Come on, man up and make the decision on your own. My choice is what you make is what you got. I want to see eight ball, not just a shoot out.
I don't have the time to read this whole thread.... but I want everyone to consider something.
I personally chose "take what you make on the break" -- and here's why:
Although we all play "open after the break," it's FAR too easy to run out that way. With players of this caliber, it'll be way more fun to watch them get forced into stripes/solids on the break and have to DO something to get out.... play an amazing series of safes or make a few break outs.
With guys like this--- open after the break is just too easy. Do you really want to watch a guy break and shoot cosmo pattern after cosmo pattern?
I personally chose "take what you make on the break" -- and here's why:
Although we all play "open after the break," it's FAR too easy to run out that way. With players of this caliber, it'll be way more fun to watch them get forced into stripes/solids on the break and have to DO something to get out.... play an amazing series of safes or make a few break outs.
With guys like this--- open after the break is just too easy. Do you really want to watch a guy break and shoot cosmo pattern after cosmo pattern?
I'm starting a new pole after folks have had some time to come to their senses. I hope you don't mind Justin but we've got a fight on our hands here.
This ain't APA. I want to see them grind and work. Not shoot ducks...
I'm buying the stream either way but open after the break is nonsense...
This ain't APA. I want to see them grind and work. Not shoot ducks...
I'm buying the stream either way but open after the break is nonsense...
Folks:
I agree, and for foundational rationale, one need only to look at the IPT "one on one" 8-ball challenge matches that they did for a time after the major tournaments stopped running.
For instance:
Johnny Archer vs. Earl Strickland
Francisco Bustamante vs. Corey Deuel
Karl Boyes vs. Tony Robles
Efren Reyes vs. Austin Murphy
Marlon Manalo vs. Rodney Morris
In all of these one-on-one challenge matches, the rules were "take what you make." And even then, there were performances where even that wasn't enough to prevent some big packages being put together (e.g. like the 5-packs that Busty put on Deuel, or that Manalo put on Morris).Francisco Bustamante vs. Corey Deuel
Karl Boyes vs. Tony Robles
Efren Reyes vs. Austin Murphy
Marlon Manalo vs. Rodney Morris
Interestingly though, the WPA sanctions "open after a sucessfully pocketed ball on the break":
http://wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play#3.3
3.3 Break Shot
The following rules apply to the break shot:
(a) The cue ball begins in hand behind the head string.
(b) No ball is called, and the cue ball is not required to hit any particular object ball first.
(c) If the breaker pockets a ball and does not foul, he continues at the table, and the table remains open. (See 3.4 Open Table / Choosing Groups.)
[...]
For challenge matches, though, I'm leaning towards "take what you make."The following rules apply to the break shot:
(a) The cue ball begins in hand behind the head string.
(b) No ball is called, and the cue ball is not required to hit any particular object ball first.
(c) If the breaker pockets a ball and does not foul, he continues at the table, and the table remains open. (See 3.4 Open Table / Choosing Groups.)
[...]
-Sean
i voted take what you make. we all know it is easier to run out with an open break. i wanna see both players at the table as many racks as possible.
not saying either player will have a chit load of runouts, but it is harder with a closed break vs open break.
not saying either player will have a chit load of runouts, but it is harder with a closed break vs open break.
The problem is your argument breaks down for the exact reason you mentioned - there is a push-out option in 9 Ball that is not available in 8 Ball.
Here's something to consider for all the folks that say open after the break is too easy for pros. Efren only B&R 34% of his games in the IPT and we all know he was the best player there was. And that was on a much easier table. If the game is too easy with open after the break why can't pros B&R more than 34% of the time. Because it's not easy. When the best at something can only successfully accomplish it 34% of the time that would make it hard to accomplish right? You would think something "easy" could be successfully completed more often then not.
I've no time to review this thread, but I voted for open after the break. This is because most league play uses this rule and I would like to see how the pros decide what to choose and how they run them out. Purely selfish, I know, but I'm sure many a league player could use this as a learning experience. Good match either way though.
Good on you JCIN, thanks for putting these events together!
Good on you JCIN, thanks for putting these events together!
I guess you missed the part where I said playing safe after the break or tying up some balls/blocking a pocket is equivalent to a pushout. You are letting your opponent to the table in both scenarios without a wide open table. The only time it is a really big deal is when you can't see a single ball from the group you made after the break. That is a very rare occurrence though. I know most of the people who voted have not played take what you make 8 ball so you don't really know about the strategy adjustments than can be made. I am not the only person saying take what you make requires more skill than open after the break.
Professional 8-ball jihadist.
I dont get how make it take it benefits the sitting player. the break is luck to begin with. if the breaker makes a ball on the break he still controls the table. sure he might not have the greatest shot but he is still shooting with the other guy sitting.
Totally agree. I'm surprised other supposedly knowledgeable players don't understand that.
You guessed wrong, I didn't miss that. But that is not the same thing as a push-out where the rules for a foul are suspended.
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Hungarian, I'm confused here. You say "this ain't APA", but open after the break is nonsense. APA plays take-what-you-make, so it is APA.
Maybe I'm missing something.
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There's 121 "supposedly knowledgeable" players that chose open after the break. Face it, you guys are in the minority on this one.
You guessed wrong, I didn't miss that. But that is not the same thing as a push-out where the rules for a foul are suspended.
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Hungarian, I'm confused here. You say this isn't APA, but open after the break is nonsense. APA plays take-what-you-make, so it is APA.
Maybe I'm missing something.
No, you are not missing anything. I meant APA as a lower level of play. I figured they were open after the break.