Am I correcting for squirt without knowing it?

Johnnyt said:
I never really heard or knew about squirt until about 25 years after I started playing, yet I ran many 60, 70, and 80's in 14.1. I think when you play enough and keep missing shots the same way that you adjust to it even though you really don't know why you have to do it. It's like my mind talks to me when i'm getting down on a shot that I almost hit the point or miss the shot the same way each time I shoot it, so I make the adjustment w/o really knowing it. Johnnyt
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PS:If your missing the pocket in different places then you then you need to figure out what your doing wrong in your pre-shot routine, stroke, or your sighting.
 
Lots of corrections happen without knowing it... There's the idea of a ball squirting to the side, but then the spin induced throw keeps the shot in line. There's also a possibility of the ball squirting to the side, but then gradually curving back in line. And many of us probably overcut every ball a little subconsciously, because collision induced throw causes balls to undercut a bit. Sometimes a lot. So sending the ball into the heart of the pocket may require aiming to the thin side of the pocket, or in extreme cases aiming to overcut and miss.

I would let your brain handle this stuff through experience and subconscious. I think most of us just know visually when the white ball is overlapping a distant object ball enough to sink it with or without spin. You can't consciously be like "ok, I'm aiming to undercut the ball by 2 degrees if I had no spin, now I'm going to aim two degrees to the right to compensate for that." ...it pretty much boils down to shooting similar shots with similar hundreds of times in the past.
 
Every time I get up in the middle of the night to take a leak I have to adjust for squirt or the floor will be a mess the next morning :thumbup:
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
I played most of my life without ever hearing the word "squirt", and I never noticed it in my shotmaking. I knew about spin, throw and swerve (although I never heard it called that), but not squirt.

So now, I've been paying careful attention to this as I play, but I never see any evidence of it. Now, I KNOW that the CB is squirting when I hit it off center because all the physicists tell me it has to, so I'm not denying it. I just don't ever see it happen.

For example, I can place a striped ball on the foot spot and take careful aim at the diamond on the opposite rail, hit center ball, and the ball will roll straight to the diamond and straight back to the cue tip. I can then put one tip of left english and aim at the same diamond and the spinning ball will go to the diamond and then come off the rail at an angle into the side pocket. Same as with a tip of right, except the ball goes to my right into the corner pocket.

In all three cases, I am aiming directly at the diamond and I can see it hit exactly on the diamond I aimed at. Using the striped ball lets me easily see that I am putting a lot of spin on the ball, plus I look at the ball and see that my chalk mark is just inside the stripe. And the effect off the rail makes it pretty obvious.

If I understand this squirt thing correctly, if I am aiming directly at the diamond, I should see the CB hit to the right of it when I am using left english and to the left when I am using right english. Am I completely misunderstanding the idea of squirt, or am I somehow unconsciously correcting for it with each shot by pivoting without realizing it?
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Not sure shooting at a diamond on the rail is exact enough.Try shooting at a cut shot with sidespin.Try left english and right english,you should be able to see that your aim is different.On some shots the throw compensation and the squirt cancell each other.If you pick up a low-deflection shaft and try cutting in a ball with sidespin you will immediately see the difference in how you must aim.
 
These last two posts, sent to us by measureman, and rjb, are not only definitive, concise, and to the point, but reflect on the wisdom that is exhibited by so many of the fine young men and women who inhabit this great forum, as well.
I shall, therefore, by the power invested in me by no one in particular, award each of these fine lads a greenie. Well done, men. Keep up the good work. :smile:
 
Broken English Rules

Sloppy Pockets said:
LOL! Well, that's what happens when you read a zillion AZB posts, you start to doubt everything.:shakehead:

Actually, I got to thinking about this from following all 97 thousands posts on the JS/CD aiming thread. Mr. Wiley says he uses intentional squirt without spin to help increase the margin of error in pocketing cut shots.

Not only do I not understand how this is possible, I also don't understand how you can hit the CB 1/2 tip off center and not put spin on it. At least I can't. What's your take on this?
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Do they really call it "squirt"..:yes:...isn't that a soda that nobody drinks anymore? .....if you don't understand cueing it to the left of center without spinning it you would really be confused if showed how to hit exactly in the center and spin it with left OR right english....or even how you can hit it on the left side of center and put RIGHT english on it.... saving these "goodies" for the appropriate time :scratchhead:
 
What is your Target?

Johnnyt said:
PS:If your missing the pocket in different places then you then you need to figure out what your doing wrong in your pre-shot routine, stroke, or your sighting.
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One thing that is overlooked in pool is THE CUE BALL IS THE TARGET...it's just aligned to the object ball or cushion (on kicks)....100% of the time on ANY SHOT I must hit a specific point on the cue ball where I'm aiming to execute the shot....the object ball is used to line up AND to give me feedback on what I did right or wrong.....if it communicates that I executed the shot correctly and the results are what I want I'm fine.....it the results aren't like I want or expect I MUST PRACTICE and calibrate until the results are consistently like I desire.....this is broken down into the simplest explanation of what I perceive pocket billiards to be....so before we get into the more advanced concepts of
position play and strategy, it's essential to develop a system to hit the cue ball precisely.
 
genomachino said:
And the squirt will be more if you hit it harder or with more English or both.

This is why so many players have switched to these low deflection shafts

The squirt is alot less. You can shoot alot closer to the real am. Not as much adjusting.

With a normal maple shaft if your not thinking about the squirt and knowingly adjusting your probably missing some shots because of the variance. of the squirt. Even knowing your missing some shots. It can be alot of adjusting.

This is why a person that first picks up a low deflection shaft doesn't like it the first time they shoot with it. They miss shots that they normally make. That's because they were naturally adjusting to the squirt to a certain extent with the maple shaft.

I hope this helps. Most players that play at a higher level and have a low deflection shaft can help you learn how to shoot with one if you want to try one.

This will eliminate alot of guessing and squirting and alot of missed balls.

.
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Then why do most top players still play with a maple shaft?
 
TheThaiger said:
Do Lucasi make one piece cues?
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I have no idea, these cues came with the table when I bought it last spring. The dealer brought a huge box of cues and let me pick out four from the box. They could be 20 years old for all I know (although they had "Made In China" stickers on them.

My fav is a two-piece Lucasi that is permanently joined in the middle. It has a real pretty shaft with perfectly straight and very tight grain. It also has more of a pro taper than the other cues. Seems to be an upgrade from a full splice bar cue, but the damn thing doesn't come apart. Only one I've seen, but folks with more experience with cues seem familiar with this method of construction.

FWIW I don't look at you as a troll, I actually get lots of chuckles from reading some of your replies. Americans often don't get that dry tongue-in-cheek Brit humo(u)r. Of course, you obviously don't care, which makes it all the more humorous to me. :cool:
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
I have no idea, these cues came with the table when I bought it last spring. The dealer brought a huge box of cues and let me pick out four from the box. They could be 20 years old for all I know (although they had "Made In China" stickers on them.

My fav is a two-piece Lucasi that is permanently joined in the middle. It has a real pretty shaft with perfectly straight and very tight grain. It also has more of a pro taper than the other cues. Seems to be an upgrade from a full splice bar cue, but the damn thing doesn't come apart. Only one I've seen, but folks with more experience with cues seem familiar with this method of construction.

FWIW I don't look at you as a troll, I actually get lots of chuckles from reading some of your replies. Americans often don't get that dry tongue-in-cheek Brit humo(u)r. Of course, you obviously don't care, which makes it all the more humorous to me. :cool:
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Thanks. I like your username - funny and disgusting!
 
smoooothstroke said:
Not sure shooting at a diamond on the rail is exact enough.Try shooting at a cut shot with sidespin.Try left english and right english,you should be able to see that your aim is different.On some shots the throw compensation and the squirt cancell each other.If you pick up a low-deflection shaft and try cutting in a ball with sidespin you will immediately see the difference in how you must aim.
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That may be a valid point, but I never aim in the conventional sense so it would be hard to check. In fact, even ghost ball messes me up. I look at the pocket, the OB, see the shot line and try to get down on it correctly (that's where I blow it I suspect). After that I only see the OB as the intersection of two lines, kinda like the pin in a door hinge. I focus on those lines and try to hit the CB exactly where i want to hit it (I'm pretty sure I look at it last). I have no idea how this works. There may be better ways, but I never learned them and now they'd only confuse me. Feel works best for me, but I won't malign others who believe in and use aiming systems. It's only a freaking game after all.

The whole idea of using the diamond to aim at is that it is a physical point that I can sight, not like a contact point on the OB. From my perspective, I hit it dead on. I should have close to half an inch of CB deflection (yes, CJ, I hate "squirt", but everybody uses it here) over that distance. Seems I'd see that pretty easily.

Besides, I have done that MOFU-whatever drill hundreds of times. Left, right or center ball hit, I always hit the center diamond on the foot rail without consciously adjusting for squirt. I'm sure I do it, but I don't know how or when I do it.

The human brain is simply amazing, eh?
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
Do they really call it "squirt"..:yes:...isn't that a soda that nobody drinks anymore? .....if you don't understand cueing it to the left of center without spinning it you would really be confused if showed how to hit exactly in the center and spin it with left OR right english....or even how you can hit it on the left side of center and put RIGHT english on it.... saving these "goodies" for the appropriate time :scratchhead:
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If ANYONE else said that on here, they would be blasted off of here. Really looking forward to your explanations of the above statements. Because, to me, it sure sounds like you aren't really doing what you think you are, or you have found a way to change physics. ??? Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and hoping to learn something.
 
Neil said:
If ANYONE else said that on here, they would be blasted off of here. Really looking forward to your explanations of the above statements. Because, to me, it sure sounds like you aren't really doing what you think you are, or you have found a way to change physics. ??? Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and hoping to learn something.
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I believe you have to jack-up a bit and use BHE. Just a guess. Johnnyt
 
Upcoming AZBILLIARDS Video Series

Neil said:
If ANYONE else said that on here, they would be blasted off of here. Really looking forward to your explanations of the above statements. Because, to me, it sure sounds like you aren't really doing what you think you are, or you have found a way to change physics. ??? Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and hoping to learn something.
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There's ways to apply english other than cuing the ball to one side of center or the other.....there's a shot I've made in competition where I cut the ball at a 30* angle to the right and make the cue ball go straight left after contact. Maybe I should show that one on my first AZ BILLIARDS Video...anyone interested?
 
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