Texas Staff working deligently to prove Squirt has NO EFFECT on the Cue Ball!!!

cooler word by now....like Squenormous or Squintinsity or even Squower.

Another quick story along these lines. Buddy Hall once stopped by the booth to try a jump cue. He shoots several shots and declares that he knows how it deflects now. After that statement he proceeds to make some shots with the jump cue that were flat out astounding, not because the shots were so difficult to jump but because he jumped and moved the cueball around the table at will as if he wasn't jumping at all. When Allen Hopkins first tried on our our jump cues he jumped the cue ball clear off the table. But within minutes he was jumping better than me and I had been giving demonstrations on how to use the jump cue for a week.

You can take any of that for whatever value you find in it.[/QUOTE]

That's true, as long as a cue is similiar to the one your used to it's pretty easy to adjust. When I won the Million Dollar Challenge Tournament it was with a McDermott cue that I'd only used for 3 days. I had just signed a deal with them to have my own line of cues, and even though the line wasn't made yet they still wanted me to start using their cue immediately. I obliged them and won the tournament (against Earl Strickland in the finals), and the only thing was it was slightly butt heavy so my arm ached the the next 2 days. The slight difference in weight didn't really effect my play, but was enough to physically hurt my arm in a very noticeable way.

I only have one Pro friend that talks about veer/squirt and we've always made fun of him. He used different shafts for different cue balls and tables and sometimes will have 3 or 4 cues out to play a match. It's such a joke with the other pros that if they do concern themselves with "squirt", they would never mention it around us. I haven't heard that word in 20 years before I got on this Forum. I'm surprised they haven't come up with a cooler word by now....like Squenormous or Squintinsity or even Squower.:wink:CLICK FOR MORE
 
I love that feeling!

I wasn't referring to an article, I was referring to TAR Podcast #24 and an off-the-cuff response to a comment Mark made about his 400 ball run.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=u8KsVm9ePlk#t=1775s


Mark: Yeah, but you ran 400 balls with that thing originally.

John: Yeah, but that's shooting... see, the misconception about straight pool is, I'm not shooting high-speed spinners, I'm shooting slow-speed spinners. The deflection was very little. Playing 9-ball where I had to pound the white ball around... I had no chance.


John clearly distinguishes between the effects of high speed and low speed spinners. Low speed spinners, he claims, deflect the CB less. This used to be universally observed to be true until the advent of high-speed film analysis of billiard shots proved this to be incorrect. John either is unaware of this physical phenomenon, or he is aware of it but chooses to ignore it. If so, he wouldn't be the first world-class player to have difficulty accepting emerging scientific fact while still playing lights out.

Our preconceptions can lead us to do and say very strange things, and the cognitive dissonance created by the internal conflict between what we already "know" and what we don't want to accept because it doesn't fit into our current paradigm can often lead us to actually alter our performance, even in familiar tasks.

Was this scientific study done on John's stroke while HE was spinning the ball or someone else's? The angle of your cue, bridge height, and the way that you apply the english effects the outcome of that experiment. To directly apply to what John said it would have to be directly about his particular stroke. imho .....this game is played more by feel than by vision despite popular belief.....people always told me I had a "good eye" when I was young, and to this day I never won a tournament or gambling match and said to myself "wow, I just played perfect, I must be seeing spectacularly today"....but I have told people "man, I Felt like I was part of the game, connected to every shot....I love that feeling!" ....just my 2 cents worth :shrug:
 
...I'm not the brightest star in the sky but I think I can do simple math. The three angles 45, 30 & 45 do not total 90. ...

That's just a typo. The second "45" in what you quoted should be "15" -- 45 + 30 + 15 = 90 -- although the angles described for 30 and 15 are actually a bit different from that.
 
.my break was really good that night (I was breaking with a 60" cue)

LOL Hannibal, Thats my town CJ! Your talking about River City Billiards pool hall. And back the a guy by the name of Pat Travathen owned it.

John and I played hundreds of games back then, or should I say I racked often for him! I was 17 or 18 at the time and I would play for 12 to 13 hours on Saturdays. John would come in and get on the table with me and I would warm him up until he got a game with someone.

He wasn't the most generous givers of knowledge, but I watched everything he did and stole what bits of knowledge I could from him. The best thing he taught me was how to keep grinding away and never give up. I bet I played him for months before I started to win a few.

Last I heard he was having a few problems, but like Louie Roberts, that was just his way.

How did you end up against John? Did you have to give him any weight? John's biggest problem was that he wasn't a very good gambler, (imo) he would give up crazy spots just to get a game. But I liked his pluck.

We played even and I ended up hitting a really high gear and beat him 60 games ahead with a series of "5 and 6 packs"....my break was really good that night (I was breaking with a 60" cue) and with that big ball it got pretty brutal....but he still stood there and took it for 18 hours or so....He is a Tough Man that's for sure....and that was back when we only played "roll out" rules. I used to play alot at "The Place" in Quincy when I was in my teens, I don't know if you've heard of that bar or maybe it's long gone...Bobby Walker (Whitey Walker's father) was one of the best around.
 
I kept myself in that "zone" so some of those matches seem pretty surreal

I saw CJ play Mark Tadd at Cue Club in Vegas 2 8 ahead sets and CJ played perfect pool. He won both sets in less than 2 hours $10,000/set.this was in 91-92

Hey there Eric, I wondered if anyone but maybe Mark Tadd remembered that night. That was right before I turned Pro and probably marked the end of my "road days"...Mark was credited with being the best "money player" at that time and I was flown it to play him that match. It seems like the place was packed, but I kept myself in that "zone" so some of those matches seem pretty surreal.

It would be cool to see some of those big gambling matches I use to play and it reminds me that supposedly there is one from me playing a guy in Miami giving him the 7,8, and 9 for some Big money....maybe I'll follow up and see if that really exists and maybe I can show it, or maybe do some kind of commentary if it's good quality. I'm back in pool full time and almost done with all my other business obligations so I can get focused again. I appreciate reminding me of this story and maybe we can get together sometime, we have a LOT of mutual friends in the pool world I would imagine. 'The Game is the Teacher'
 
We played even and I ended up hitting a really high gear and beat him 60 games ahead with a series of "5 and 6 packs"....my break was really good that night (I was breaking with a 60" cue) and with that big ball it got pretty brutal....but he still stood there and took it for 18 hours or so....He is a Tough Man that's for sure....and that was back when we only played "roll out" rules. I used to play alot at "The Place" in Quincy when I was in my teens, I don't know if you've heard of that bar or maybe it's long gone...Bobby Walker (Whitey Walker's father) was one of the best around.

The Place, Lol, yea I remember that one. Four bar box tables and a bar. I imagine you would have ran into Sam Dier a time or two if you spent some time in Quincy. He's a pretty strong player, has been for years. Last I checked that bar is still there. I played there some when I was younger but I haven't been in that place in about 15 years.

Small world!

60 AHEAD! lol! I know what John was thinking! I'm guessing he was trying to out last you with a little chemical advantage. That man had almost no quit in him. I have never came across another man quite like him. I didn't always agree with the things he did but I had a certain level of respect for him. Still do.
 
...also known as quarter ball, half ball, and three quarter ball aim.
Check out the following illustration from “Aim, Align, Sight - Part I: Introduction and Ghost Ball Systems” (BD, June, 2011):

ball-hit_fractions.jpg

The angles aren't exactly 15 and 45 (... the "45" is actually closer to 50 degrees), but "15" and "45" do sound better.

Regards,
Dave
 
Was this scientific study done on John's stroke while HE was spinning the ball or someone else's?

No, it was not, and that is a very valid point IMO... but I'm not going toe-to-toe with the scientists here. I've already seen where that can lead.:eek:

I do understand the physics well enough (hell, I was so good in college physics they made me take it twice Lol), but there are so many other factors that can come into play besides angular deflection theory. Kamui claims that their chalk itself creates less CB deflection, but that flies in the face of the "end mass alone" theory (I haven't seen Kamui's supporting experiments to know whether this is pure hype or if their claim has merit).

Clearly, more work needs to be done. Like the global warming issue, the science is supposedly "in", but both sides of the fence make valid points. The fact that the vast majority of climate scientists agree with the GW hypothesis doesn't make them correct. Science is a process, not an absolute. Sometimes it yields fact, but usually it just raises more questions (if it is conducted correctly), merely leading to further experimentation.

For example, physicists once hypothesized that the electrons in an atom sat inside of a positively-charged "substance", instead of spinning around in empty space at an insane speed in discrete orbitals. They even had a cutsie name for their atomic model - the "plum pudding" model, because electrons were like plums moving around in a pudding-like matrix. Then Ernest Rutherford set up an experiment to establish subjective evidence of the model.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geiger-Marsden_experiment


Known as the Geiger-Marsden experiment, he had the experimenters look for deflection of alpha particles as they passed through a gold foil. The theory behind the model predicted that there would be very little deflection as they passed through a primarily homogenous substance. What happened instead is best described by Rutherford himself:

It was quite the most incredible event that has ever happened to me in my life. It was almost as incredible as if you fired a 15-inch shell at a piece of tissue paper and it came back and hit you. On consideration, I realized that this scattering backward must be the result of a single collision, and when I made calculations I saw that it was impossible to get anything of that order of magnitude unless you took a system in which the greater part of the mass of the atom was concentrated in a minute nucleus. It was then that I had the idea of an atom with a minute massive center, carrying a charge.

Note that Rutherford's understanding of simple Newtonian physics (and deflection Lol) was all he needed to interpret that the plum pudding model was not only wrong, it was extremely wrong. The results of this experiment changed nuclear physics forever, and opened the way for modern science as we know it today.



Anyway, suffice it to say that JS was having difficulties making high-speed spin shots with the LD shaft, and at the level you guys play at, just one random miss can knock you out of the tourney. That would make him a "non-issue" on the pro tour as he claims was the case.

At this point, I would be highly interested in having John himself serve as a test robot in another high-speed analysis. Different shafts, different tips, different chalk, different speeds, different cloths, different relative humidity and temperature, varying amounts of spin in every possible axis, etc.

Personally, I would not be shocked with the results either way they turned out. :wink:


BTW I love the way you created a free-for-all thread here with your silly title. Sucked us in good for a minute there, but then the thread got a life of its own, which is pretty cool.:cool:
 
That's just a typo. The second "45" in what you quoted should be "15" -- 45 + 30 + 15 = 90 -- although the angles described for 30 and 15 are actually a bit different from that.

I'm confused, there's three diamonds on the end rail but the statement has only given the degree of angle for two of them 30 & 15 degrees and the pockets being 45 and 0 degrees, does the third unmentioned diamond have no value in this system ???
Don't mean to be a pain in the backside, jus trying to understand.
JDale
 
I'm confused, there's three diamonds on the end rail but the statement has only given the degree of angle for two of them 30 & 15 degrees and the pockets being 45 and 0 degrees, does the third unmentioned diamond have no value in this system ???
Don't mean to be a pain in the backside, jus trying to understand.
JDale
The angles formed by the rails and diamonds aren't part of any (rational) system that I know of.

pj
chgo
 
... CB 2 places ; left edge, right edge.

OB 3 places ; center of left half, center of 0B, center of right half.

The shot remaining is extreme cut for any shots over 45 degrees. Aim CB edge at center of half of the half of 0B (¼). ...


This creates 4 reference cut angles in each direction (with ball-to-ball overlaps of 3/4, 1/2, 1/4, and 1/8). You'll want to add the straight shot. This creates a simple fractional-ball aiming method like "quarters" or SAM.
 
to make this system work you truly have to understand cte systems
Simply dividing the range of cut angles into four uneven sub-ranges (by inserting 3 reference angles) is a "system"?

pj
chgo
 
I saw CJ play Mark Tadd at Cue Club in Vegas 2 8 ahead sets and CJ played perfect pool. He won both sets in less than 2 hours $10,000/set.this was in 91-92

Hey there Eric, I wondered if anyone but maybe Mark Tadd remembered that night. That was right before I turned Pro and probably marked the end of my "road days"...Mark was credited with being the best "money player" at that time and I was flown it to play him that match. It seems like the place was packed, but I kept myself in that "zone" so some of those matches seem pretty surreal.

It would be cool to see some of those big gambling matches I use to play and it reminds me that supposedly there is one from me playing a guy in Miami giving him the 7,8, and 9 for some Big money....maybe I'll follow up and see if that really exists and maybe I can show it, or maybe do some kind of commentary if it's good quality. I'm back in pool full time and almost done with all my other business obligations so I can get focused again. I appreciate reminding me of this story and maybe we can get together sometime, we have a LOT of mutual friends in the pool world I would imagine. 'The Game is the Teacher'


You were so "In the Zone" I'm not sure you knew where you were. It was amazing, even after I saw you try and talk to a few guys I was standing rite there and you were still not really there. It's hard to explain, but man what a great focus you had. No disrespect to Mark, I was living in Vegas at the time and he was playing real real good. He had zero chance, nobody could have beat you that night. That was the chatter on the rail. I seen lots of pool and to this day i havent seen a match that one sided between 2 great players. Believe me if Mark had a shot he would have shot back he was at the top of his game then too. the $$ line as I recall was a pick 'em.


check your PM
 
I respectably disagree, i am talking when Dennis O and Darren A about take when they are down and shaft pressing on their chins warming up, they are trying to find that sweet contact point. Position play and getting proper sequence gets determined before you go down.
I agree about being in the zone, but that is not from aim point of view as much as right speed for every shot, especially on tight pockets.


Where did i say any differient? I agree and have always condoned, supported, taught and do exactly that.

Position and sequence, your A.S.S. angle speed and spin are all done while standing up not while down.

Sorry if i confused you or anyone else somehow. As making all of your decisions prior to dropping in on the shot is the BEST way to go PERIOD

-Greyghost
 
...It's such a joke with the other pros that if they do concern themselves with "squirt", they would never mention it around us. I haven't heard that word in 20 years before I got on this Forum. I'm surprised they haven't come up with a cooler word by now....like Squenormous or Squintinsity or even Squower.:wink:CLICK FOR MORE

CJ: It's a little hard to tell from here but it looks like you are going to make a bad hit but you have right spin on it, knowing the cueball will squirt and miss the four ball:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJSGHDC1wXA&t=6m36s
 
I use deflection on most of my shots to create the "3 Part Pocket".

CJ: It's a little hard to tell from here but it looks like you are going to make a bad hit but you have right spin on it, knowing the cueball will squirt and miss the four ball:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJSGHDC1wXA&t=6m36s

I didn't play the deflection on that particular shot....I realize it does veer slightly, however I still aim to miss the ball and "quick spin" it to execute this shot. I use deflection on most of my shots to create the "3 Part Pocket".
 
There was a lot of work and time that went into learning that technique

You were so "In the Zone" I'm not sure you knew where you were. It was amazing, even after I saw you try and talk to a few guys I was standing rite there and you were still not really there. It's hard to explain, but man what a great focus you had. No disrespect to Mark, I was living in Vegas at the time and he was playing real real good. He had zero chance, nobody could have beat you that night. That was the chatter on the rail. I seen lots of pool and to this day i havent seen a match that one sided between 2 great players. Believe me if Mark had a shot he would have shot back he was at the top of his game then too. the $$ line as I recall was a pick 'em.


check your PM

Yes, we bet a LOT of money on that match and there's a "behind the scenes story I'll tell you in private one day". Mark was regarded as the "hottest" money player of that particular time period on the west coast especially. The people behind me always like to get me to come play those type guys because I did develop a way to go deeper into the zone than other people. There was a lot of work and time that went into learning that technique and I've shared it privately with some players, and when the time is right I'll share it on here too. It's taken me over 500 posts to explain my 3 Part Pocket System and Touch of Inside technique, I'd have a hard time imagining how long it would take me to explain "Dead Stroke".:wink:

I do remember before we started Mark was shooting all these fancy draw shots and stroke shots and I walked up to the table to take my turn at hitting some balls and said "what in the world do you think you're doing?" and he replied "you wouldn't understand if I told you".....LoL....for some reason that struck me as funny, because he was absulutely right. :groucho:
 
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