Who is the Professional Governing Body with Official Rankings?

speaking of facts -
the ABP isnt located in a shoe store. good frikin grief.

they have these fancy new buildings in the city called "skyscrapers".
inside of them can be hundreds of different businesses, all with the same street address. its amazing stuff.

as for the governing body, like it or not its the BCA.
and yes, to reitterate what justadub said, the whole thing is hugely political. and personally, i strongly doubt that common ground will ever be found.

however, these same types of struggles happened with NFL and MLB back in the day as well. so i hope more than anything, that it will eventually result in the greatest billiard competitions the world has ever seen.
 
Clever skyscrapers, you're so smart!!!!
You seem to talk down to people so
well, you must have a lot of practice.

Good F'en grief is right.
 
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i apologize if i've somehow offended you.
i suppose i would rather be guilty of sarcasm, than to be guilty of questioning the integrity of the ABP because i simply misunderstood google map results.
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
I know, when I saw the "Loop Footwear" it started to concern me. I've replied to emails with no response and on their face book page they are saying to send money (annual dues) to the "Loop Footwear Address"..very strange indeed.....they may not even know about this, but I sent an email and can't locate a real person from the ABP to talk to. Here's their Face Book LINK https://www.facebook.com/ABPpros
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CJ, I did a little research and the Chicago mailing address is to the ABP attorney's office.
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
I know, when I saw the "Loop Footwear" it started to concern me. I've replied to emails with no response and on their face book page they are saying to send money (annual dues) to the "Loop Footwear Address"..very strange indeed.....they may not even know about this, but I sent an email and can't locate a real person from the ABP to talk to. Here's their Face Book LINK https://www.facebook.com/ABPpros
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There is no real person. Its all C.W bullchit. Hes as bad for pool as Obama is for president of the U.S.

Its coming out of Chicago, huh? So isnt dragon promotions based out of that area? go figure
 
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Mr. Bond said:
i apologize if i've somehow offended you.
i suppose i would rather be guilty of sarcasm, than to be guilty of questioning the integrity of the ABP because i simply misunderstood google map results.
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That's what was posted on Face Book, but "questioning the integrity of the ABP" wasn't mentioned....it was said on a social network, joking about the shoe store (something about Al Bundy) and now the air is cleared....see how it works? You have to fix public problems publically....that is "public relations" in this day and age. Don't confuse the message with the messager.
 
There is no professional governing body or official rankings.

Until there is an actual official professional tour anyone or their dog can claim they are the "official blah blah blah" and it means diddly squat.

Pool in America and across the whole planet is just a smattering of independent events run by different people with different games and with different rule sets and none of those people have any claim to being the "official" anything overseeing the whole sport. No group who decides to take some of those other peoples events they find worthy enough and give points for finishes and comes up with a rankings is doing anything more then humoring themselves and others, it is pointless.

There is no official professional tour in this sport, there is no official professional status in this sport, so any organization out there that claims to be the official professional whatever is dreaming and is ultimately irrelevant.
 
hmmm

What other flaky business venture person was based in the chicago area and started a "tour"? Coincendence?

Ofcourse CW and KT both could push and sell the snake oil :grin:
 
Mitchell...Dennis is not an "official" ABP attorney. He is merely an interested poolplayer who is trying to help them (the ABP) quit stepping on their own tongues. Everyone here knows how much dgwalsh has done to promote pool, and keep a positive image. He's a great guy, and a good friend of mine.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

DogsPlayingPool said:
CJ, I did a little research and the Chicago mailing address is to the ABP attorney's office.
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a better or bigger question might be:

-Since the ABP has adopted 'their own' ranking system, does that mean that 'they' do not acknowledge the BCA rankings anymore - or are they simply trying to create an additional system that has no bearing on the other?

-Or, does the ABP intend for its rankings to 'replace' or be 'more relevant' than the BCA rankings?
 
Mr. Bond said:
a better or bigger question might be:

-Since the ABP has adopted 'their own' ranking system, does that mean that 'they' do not acknowledge the BCA rankings anymore - or are they simply trying to create an additional system that has no bearing on the other?

-Or, does the ABP intend for its rankings to 'replace' or be 'more relevant' than the BCA rankings?
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It sure sounds better when CW is selling himself, to be able to say that he more or less owns the top 10 players in "the world". I wouldn't trust him to captain an APA team - or, at the least, I'd be making my payments via check written to the LO. Nothing he does appears to be straight-forward, many things the "ABP" does benefit him directly and at least a couple have been unsavory. If I were any of the members, I'd be paying extra attention to anything I sign.
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
... I just know how important it is to understand the politics ...
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Hi CJ,
If you've been away from the game for a while, you may want to find out how the previous pro organization went. That would be the UPA. It actually did have responsibility for pro rankings for a while.
 
Governing body is ???

Scott Lee said:
Mitchell...Dennis is not an "official" ABP attorney. He is merely an interested poolplayer who is trying to help them (the ABP) quit stepping on their own tongues. Everyone here knows how much dgwalsh has done to promote pool, and keep a positive image. He's a great guy, and a good friend of mine.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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Hi Scott,

I agree that Dennis has tried to do some good things for the pool world.
But he is in the ABP stuff up to his ears. (His address, he invited people to join the FB site).

My problem with the ABP is that their last press release showed the rankings of all the players that have played in 3 events. These events are Hopkins Players Championship, the US Open 10-Ball, and Turning Stone.

This suggests that these 3 events have sanctioned or recognized the ABP.

That is NOT TRUE. The only one that actually did sanction with ABP is Hopkins. So their rankings are computed from events that do not even recognize the ABP.

That is misleading and improper behavior! As an attorney, he should know what is considered proper behavior and what is not completely proper.


He should know that any press release should have a name and address/phone number for questions or clarification.

He should know that posting on AZBilliards forums and NOT responding to questions is not proper.

I know he is not 'running' the show - but if he is that involved, he should make sure someone is available to respond to questions or accept responsibility. None of that has occured in the past.

I have talked with Dennis in the past - and one of the major topics was that the ABP needs to act in a business like manner.

It is unfortunate that I have to write letters to explain to everyone that I am NOT endorsing or sanctioning with the the ABP. All of this because someone intentionally put out bad information. I support the BCA points.

Now, I have heard that some of the pool players actually think they have to go to these ABP events to get BCA points. Thatis exactly what all this was meant to do - confuse the players and the public.

The BCA points determine who gets invited to WPA events. ABP point mean nothing except to the ABP.

This is all so unnecessary - and Dennis Walsh needs to accept his share of the blame since he is acting as their general counsel.

Mark Griffin,CEO
CSI
 
Scott Lee said:
Mitchell...Dennis is not an "official" ABP attorney. He is merely an interested poolplayer who is trying to help them (the ABP) quit stepping on their own tongues. Everyone here knows how much dgwalsh has done to promote pool, and keep a positive image. He's a great guy, and a good friend of mine.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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Yeah Scott, I know he had just offered some friendly assistance. And Dennis is a good guy, a great contributor to AZB, and a good friend of straight pool. I wasn't trying to put him in some official capacity. I only mentioned it because at least that ABP address thing is no longer a complete mystery. :grin-square:

So perhaps the ABP isn't officially dead, they just closed their website and are now living rent free on Facebook.
 
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I'm just deciding if I want to play in any tournaments especially the US OPEN

Bob Jewett said:
Hi CJ,
If you've been away from the game for a while, you may want to find out how the previous pro organization went. That would be the UPA. It actually did have responsibility for pro rankings for a while.
Click to expand...

Yes, I really haven't followed anything about these "tours", I just keep getting press releases and I see them (APB) posting on here a lot lately so I figured they must answer questions. I've just seen conflicting info. on these ratings systems for the last week. I'm just trying to decide if I want to play in any tournaments, especially the US OPEN. The prize money isn't enough to decide, but the points would be if they could lead to bigger things overseas.

I have no desire to ever get involved with a "non profit" tour/organization again, unless it was to just help other pros in a "no charge agreement". In this day and age you have to address the public in forums like this. Public Relations must be a major part of any publically promoted "Tour".

I only have interest in doing Televised Events, and Streaming Video Presentations. I have obligations in Dallas that keep me from traveling to play pool.....everything I do for the next year will probably be in Dallas/Ft. Worth and Las Vegas if necessary.
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
Yes, I really haven't followed anything about these "tours", I just keep getting press releases and I see them (APB) posting on here a lot lately so I figured they must answer questions. I've just seen conflicting info. on these ratings systems for the last week. I'm just trying to decide if I want to play in any tournaments, especially the US OPEN. The prize money isn't enough to decide, but the points would be if they could lead to bigger things overseas.

I have no desire to ever get involved with a "non profit" tour/organization again, unless it was to just help other pros in a "no charge agreement". In this day and age you have to address the public in forums like this. Public Relations must be a major part of any publically promoted "Tour".

I only have interest in doing Televised Events, and Streaming Video Presentations. I have obligations in Dallas that keep me from traveling to play pool.....everything I do for the next year will probably be in Dallas/Ft. Worth and Las Vegas if necessary.
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CJ, if you're looking for rankings that might mean something as far as overseas events, then you want the WPA rankings:

http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/rankings

The US Open 9 Ball is currently the only domestic event that is included in the world rankings.

The Matchroom Sport rankings help determine the Mosconi Cup team. Currently, the following events are for the US team rankings:

Turning Stone Classic Winter Event
The Players Championship. Valley Forge
US Open 10-Ball Championship.
Turning Stone Classic Summer Event
The US Open 9-Ball Championships.

http://www.matchroompool.com/page/MosconiCup/QualificationSystem/0,,12660,00.html

The only supposed impact I'm aware of regarding the ABP rankings is they are to be used to determine the seedings of any event that is "sanctioned" by the ABP. So far the only event that I know of that had official ABP sanctioning was Allen Hopkins last SBE - and even though they sanctioned it the organizers seeded the tournament the way they wanted to, not strictly according to ABP stated guidelines or rankings.

I am not aware of any events, overseas or domestically, that use the ABP rankings currently to determine qualification or for invitation.

Hope this helps.
 
If this is in any way inaccurate please speak now or forever hold your peace.

DogsPlayingPool said:
CJ, if you're looking for rankings that might mean something as far as overseas events, then you want the WPA rankings:

http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/rankings

The US Open 9 Ball is currently the only domestic event that is included in the world rankings.

The Matchroom Sport rankings help determine the Mosconi Cup team. Currently, the following events are for the US team rankings:

Turning Stone Classic Winter Event
The Players Championship. Valley Forge
US Open 10-Ball Championship.
Turning Stone Classic Summer Event
The US Open 9-Ball Championships.

http://www.matchroompool.com/page/MosconiCup/QualificationSystem/0,,12660,00.html

The only supposed impact I'm aware of regarding the ABP rankings is they are to be used to determine the seedings of any event that is "sanctioned" by the ABP. So far the only event that I know of that had official ABP sanctioning was Allen Hopkins last SBE - and even though they sanctioned it the organizers seeded the tournament the way they wanted to, not strictly according to ABP stated guidelines or rankings.

I am not aware of any events, overseas or domestically, that use the ABP rankings currently to determine qualification or for invitation.

Hope this helps.
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Thanks, this needs to be public knowledge. If this is in any way inaccurate please speak now or forever hold your peace. ;)
 
cjssecrets4u2 said:
Thanks, this needs to be public knowledge. If this is in any way inaccurate please speak now or forever hold your peace. ;)
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What Mark Griffin posted seems pertinent here - the BCA rankings determine who is invited to WPA events. This makes complete sense considering US players are way under represented at the overseas WPA points events.

Here's the link to the BCA points list and events that constitute the rankings:

http://home.bca-pool.com/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=109
 
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