APA Masters Division

[RRfireblade]

To my knowledge they usually only accept 6's and 7's, not 5's... I would not recommend a 5 sign up unless other pool halls are a lot easier than the one in my area.

When I played it was SL7 minimum to play.

But if you let in lower SLs and there are enough of them, then your more likely to play them as well...but if not, then I may tend to agree unless you understand that going in.

I did like the format tho, nice change of pace. No handicaps is such a nice bonus too.

 

[CreeDo]

This is good advice IF the only joy you get out of playing pool is winning. [snip] Unless of course......you like being the "top gun" in your division and whipping-up on the lesser skilled players all the time. If winning is your main goal in pool, by all means stay away from the Masters division.

Maniac

Actually, yes, I do enjoy being top gun and whipping people's ass at pool. Who do you think made this facebook page?

I've met lots of guys over the years who claim they like to mix it up with much better players, and don't mind losing to them. I've never met anyone who actually meant it.

I think it's just something people say so they can sound like hardcore pool players who really want to improve. But IMO the guy who wants to improve isn't the one who keeps throwing away cash to better player for the "experience". It's the guy who practices for hours and does drills and watches dvds and reads and actually works on his fundamentals.

Nobody honestly enjoys losing and being the weakest player in the room. That's what a 5 or a weak 6 would experience in my particular league, so I recommend those players keep away unless they are SINCERELY ok with losing most of their matches. It's not gonna be fun. They don't have to win even if they dig deep and bring out their A game.

If those players want the "experience" of being trapped in a chair watching a better player run out, they can do that from a spectator's seat. Or they can play me and they only need to cover half the table time

As for playing them to learn something new, by the time you're qualified to play masters, just watching the other guy probably won't teach you anything you don't already know, as far as "I should hit that ball with low left instead of high right". You can't learn speed control or better shotmaking from the chair. At best, you can learn to control your nerves in a tough match and to bear down and play your best game. But why not just make bearing down a habit you use all the time, even when you're "whipping up the lesser skilled players"?

 

[Scott Lee]

gunzby...I realize that although any S/L can participate in APA Masters leagues, most of them will be higher level players (7-9), and perhaps unneeding of coaching (although I don't agree with that mindset). Is coaching prohibited in the Masters?...unlike the regular APA, where is it not only legal, but encouraged. I know it is prohibited in the VNEA Masters, but they don't allow coaching in any of their leagues. I know that there have been a few pro events where the player was allowed a "cornerman/coach". To me, that seems like a natural way to perform at your peak level.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I played APA Masters this year. It's not an instruction league. It's race to 7 with 5 games 8 ball and 8 games of 9. You can push after break and use jump cues. There are no handicaps and it is a four man team with three able to play.

 

[Scott Lee]

Thanks Dan...I should have read further in the thread before I posted to gunzby. The "coaching" aspect was one of the things that drew me strongly into purchasing a franchise. Interesting that they play "normal" 9-ball, even though you play it differently in the main APA league. They did not have Master's leagues in APA when I was an LO twenty years ago, so I didn't know the rule about coaching. Still seems stupid, imo, when coaching is allowed in the main league (and in some cases, the pros do it).

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

You are mistaken. 8 Ball uses standard APA rules. IE slop counts and you get what you drop on the break, ball in hand rules and call pocket on the 8.
9 Ball is Texas Express without the 3 foul rule.

No handicap no coaching.

 

[ruzzy1]

masters

ive played in the masters league and in the nationals for it . its a great format mainly because of no handicaps .ive been in the apa for 20 + years and have had enough of sandbagging and whining lol. luv the part of playing 8 and 9 ball thats why i also play the u.s. amateurs every year because they use the same format. where i play anybody can play in the masters no matter what handicap you are in the apa or if ur not in the apa. yes 5's and 6's will not win that much unless playing each other but they still enjoy the experience.

 

[Scott Lee]

ruzzy1...Don't you have to join APA, if you're going to play on an APA Masters league team?

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

where i play anybody can play in the masters no matter what handicap you are in the apa or if ur not in the apa..

 

[ruzzy1]

yes actually you are correct , they make you join and pay a membership for the year . i was thinking bout the u.s. amateurs ,in which they dont make you join but apa members get a discounted price.

 

[ruzzy1]

in our area u didnt have to be on a team unless u make it to the nationals ,in that case , guys would just have somebody put them on a team roster for that session.

 

[LC3]

I played in APA Masters for a while and liked the straightforward format. The league captain was good at matching players, so the games were fun.

 

[Rich R.]

yes everyone can get a little better ... but

Shane Van Boening won the VNEA masters in Vegas 3 times..

just sayin

And, if I remember correctly, Shane has a coach that he confers with from time to time.
Just sayin'.

 

[stlerdave]

Thanks for all the comments! I will play in this and get what ever I can out of it. Im not that bad of a player to where I need someone telling me what to shoot(wish I was as good as some azers say they are). Just any advice to stance, routine, stroke. Im a 39 game apa player, so newbie and play VNEA also usually top 5 in the division that I have played, not A division yet but with right team maybe someday. I would play better players all day and take a pounding just to learn 1 little thing. So for the ones who say dont waste my time, its not time wasted, but invested. If they are good enough to break and run every game like some of you say then great, but let me get a shot I can run out also! I just wanna shoot pool.:grin:

 

[Maniac]

So for the ones who say dont waste my time, its not time wasted, but invested. If they are good enough to break and run every game like some of you say then great, but let me get a shot I can run out also! I just wanna shoot pool.:grin:

I like your attitude, Dave :thumbup2:!!!

Maniac

 

[dabarbr]

To paraphrase: APA rules by any other name still stink the same.

Only league I found with rules that match the WPA rules is the USAPL. There the Masters is a real Masters. Called shot even in 9-ball, rack your own, 8 ball played by real rules, open table until you make your first legal shot.

Pardon the bash, but forcing you to take what you make in 8-ball half the time is punishing a player for making a ball on the break.

IMO, playing you got what you make, is what separates the better eight ball players. It takes a lot of eight ball skills to win a game when there is no routine out. Making a ball on the break is all we ask for and then we deal with it from there.

 

[Pre-Flag Master]

IMO, playing you got what you make, is what separates the better eight ball players. It takes a lot of eight ball skills to win a game when there is no routine out...

Gotta disagree, respectfully. There not being a routine run out is one thing. There being absolutely no shot on the group you made on the break is another. When this happens, it punishes the guy who made a ball on the break.

I ask you to consider it from this position. If the breaker makes no balls, then the opponent comes to the table with an open table and a choice of groups (as it should be). He didn't do anything special to be rewarded with choice of groups - the breaker simply failed to make a ball. Now why on earth should the breaker be punished by having no choice after the break when he DID make a ball? Just my opinion.

Fatz

 

[Cory in DC]

I have to disagree with your disagreement, respectfully. Open off the break does create more runouts, naturally. But take what you make requires some finesse in the early stage game where there's no runout opportunity.

How do I safe with 14 balls on the table? Can I force/trick my opponent into taking the more challenging suit of balls?

In short, in those cases where you make a stripe and stripes suck, you have to come up with a strong move. The same is true for both players, so whoever can come up with stronger moves more consistently will win more often. That's the definition of a skill-based endeavor.

If you're routinely getting absolutely no shot, you should probably try to control the cue ball on the break more!

Cory

Gotta disagree, respectfully. There not being a routine run out is one thing. There being absolutely no shot on the group you made on the break is another. When this happens, it punishes the guy who made a ball on the break.

I ask you to consider it from this position. If the breaker makes no balls, then the opponent comes to the table with an open table and a choice of groups (as it should be). He didn't do anything special to be rewarded with choice of groups - the breaker simply failed to make a ball. Now why on earth should the breaker be punished by having no choice after the break when he DID make a ball? Just my opinion.

Fatz

 

[dabarbr]

I have to disagree with your disagreement, respectfully. Open off the break does create more runouts, naturally. But take what you make requires some finesse in the early stage game where there's no runout opportunity.

How do I safe with 14 balls on the table? Can I force/trick my opponent into taking the more challenging suit of balls?

In short, in those cases where you make a stripe and stripes suck, you have to come up with a strong move. The same is true for both players, so whoever can come up with stronger moves more consistently will win more often. That's the definition of a skill-based endeavor.

If you're routinely getting absolutely no shot, you should probably try to control the cue ball on the break more!

Cory

Thank you sir, you answered that very well.
My point was that if you made a ball on the break and didn't have a pocket-able ball all you need is to be able to see one of your balls and from there find something to do to get yourself back up to the table again. If you made a ball then your opponent is now limited to just seven balls. In these games the one with the most experience and knowledge of eight ball will win in the longer run.

 

[scottjen26]

I played in an in-house league that used the Master's format but only 2 person teams. Played for 4 sessions, was great, not much waiting around, decent competition, 70% of the money went to the players, and free pool all night and on other weeknights (which was really why I joined).

Was mostly 6's and 7's in 8 ball, or 7 - 9 in 9-ball, although a few lower players played as well for the experience etc. And as posted before, with the right mindset I think some of those players did learn - they met the better players, got comfortable, learned by watching, asking, or practicing before/after league, and occasionally would snap off a win. Usually of course the top players or team would win given there was no handicap, but there were usually 5 - 6 players out of the 24 we had that were in contention and it was a good time.

Scott

 

[CreeDo]

....you have to come up with a strong move. The same is true for both players, so whoever can come up with stronger moves more consistently will win more often. That's the definition of a skill-based endeavor.

I think this is a common misconception... people often confuse "difficult" with "lucky", because both things need skill to overcome.

The difference is, adding extra difficulty to a game is usually desirable. Adding extra luck to a game is not.

Say we take it to the extreme. One guys says "I should be able to shoot any ball". Another guy says "no, you should only be able to shoot half the balls on the table, that makes things harder so the more skilled player should win". The next guy says "okay, let's make it so the only ball you can shoot after the break is the three. Now things are even harder so it should now be a more skilled game."

...after six breaks (let's say 3's in a random spot and you're not doing a soft break designed to park the 3 somewhere), player A gets the three hanging near the hole three times, player B is forced to kick it three times. Player A wins the set. It's pretty clear that luck was the deciding factor here.

It's the same with 8 ball, if you get hooked after the break, most of the time it's not because you suck at breaking, you can suck and have a wild cue ball and still come up with a look at several balls as long as you don't scratch. It's just bad luck that another ball snuggled up to the cue ball and blocked your view of half the balls. Yeah you can "come with a shot" but if you miss it, it doesn't mean your opponent outplayed you. It just means he didn't catch the the same shitty roll.

 

[cookie man]

Bca 8-ball is much easier. Choice after the break is huge weight to have when your breaking.

 

[hang-the-9]

Thank you sir, you answered that very well.
My point was that if you made a ball on the break and didn't have a pocket-able ball all you need is to be able to see one of your balls and from there find something to do to get yourself back up to the table again. If you made a ball then your opponent is now limited to just seven balls. In these games the one with the most experience and knowledge of eight ball will win in the longer run.

No matter which way you look at it, in APA rules, making a single ball on the break is not a good thing. You are punished much of the time for making a ball. May as well break soft and have the other guy deal with the mess of clusters.

You can say that having your arm cut off will make you work harder to use the one you have left to do stuff you used to do with both arms. But it does not make it a good thing to have one arm off.

What they should do is just have each player pick their group before the game starts, no matter what goes in on the break, they shoot what they picked.

That way the player won't feel like an idiot when they make a ball but the others are tied up or there is no shot at one of them where the other group is good.