Bonus Ball Poll - Like it or hate it?
- Thread starter jason
- Start date
I hate to break it to you but you cannot artificially create interest in pool by creating local teams and expecting a sudden fanbase to pop up akin to the support the LA Lakers or NY Yankees recieve.
If noone give a crap about the sport then noone will give a crap about the team. The CFL does well in Canada because people love the game, when it branched into the USA places like Las Vegas and Sacramento did not give a crap about the game so they did not give a crap about the teams or how they did and thus the whole thing collapsed.
You need to make people interested in the sport, the actual game played. The mindset you have that "hey guys, if we have teams from different cities and players from those cities playing on those teams against each other then maybe people will start watching pool so they can cheer on their city!!!" is sad and just shows the type of thinking that people who actually try to do stuff in this sport have and why we keep seeing the wheels spin while seeing no forward movement whatsoever.
but couldn't there be a League involving all states, or major cities to compete in the same manner? i wouldn't think that creating a whole new table game was really that necessary.
Are you saying that there is absolutely nothing that will get new people interested in pool, so we should all just quit trying; or are you saying that it can actually be done, only this is not the way to do it? If the latter, maybe you have the answers on how it should be done, and perhaps you would be willing to share them with the WPBL here? It may not be too late to save the WPBL from a course of destruction - if that's where they are actually headed.
Roger
from your defensive tone, i think you've misread his post.
let the flaming begin:grin-square::grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:
It is the latter. I am not sure how new you are to this forum but I have spent years on here debating ways to make this sport work and coming up with ideas that get posted freely on the forum. Anyone who has spent any amount of time on this forum for any considerable amount of time knows I am quite happy to get right into the middle of discussions on how pool might break out of it's rut.
Yes, I am stating very clearly that Bonus Ball is not the way, it will end up being a huge waste of alot of money and time that would be better spent promoting the game in an entirely different fashion.
My own personal thoughts on what would make pool actually work have been stated on here many times.
1) I think 8-ball is the key game to promote and market. It is THE game that the general public accept, the game they understand, and the game that they play and has been for decades DESPITE the professional pool world largely ignoring it and trying to push rotation pool. The general public have spoken on this, they have done so for decades, but the promoters out there have chosen to ignore what the public have told them and instead try to force feed them 9-ball, 10-ball, and now Bonus Ball. It will not work.
2) For 8-ball to be played at the pro level the equippment needs to be significantly difficult so that the cream of the professional pool world rises to the top. The new 10-foot diamond tables with 4 1/8th inch pockets are IMO the correct tables to use in order to accomplish this. Much like golf the professional game of pool can be played on equipment that is more difficult then the general public tend to play on, that is OK and can and does work in a great many sports. Amature pool can be played on standard 7 foot diamonds with 4 1/2 inch pockets, the pros can play on larger tables with smaller pockets.
3) I think that league pool/national championships should be linked to the professional game. I think that a league needs to step up and become the "Q School" of pool and the people who win at the national/international level of amature pool should win their tour playing cards on an actual tour. I think this helps create a fan base when the people who play in a league are actually now playing in the same organization that the professional tour is part of.
4) I think in order to fund such a professional tour the league system which now acts as the qualifying school for the tour needs to have some of the income from the amature ranks fund the professional tour, at least in the start until sponsorship can increase to a level where it becomes self sustaining. Something like $20/year from each league player's league fees going directly into the professional fund. In turn these league players would gain access to one free online account that would allow them to watch streams of the professional tournaments.
5) I think the website for the league system should be nationalized, instead of having a SML Pool Leagues website that shows the stats for the leagues in Alberta people playing in the major league systems should go to the official major website where ALL of the people in that league system have their stats displayed and stored. You can see where teams stand in their local divisions but you also have stats of all of the players in the entire country that can be seen and compared. This system should be set up so that local league operators can upload all of their leagues data each week in a standardized system and each league in the system plays the same number of weeks in a season and plays the same number of games and by the same rules. With such a universal system all centered in one place the number of hits that such a site would recieve would be huge and thus the potential for sponsorship and advertising revenue is considerable.
6) Due to the fact that the league systrem and professional tour are part of the same organization the website would also serve the professional ranks. It is on that website that advertising for professional events would take place, it is on that website that the links/page to view live streams of professional events would be accessible, it is on that website that interesting news about league or pro accomplishments would be updated such as a player from a local league getting a 5 ERO 50-0 night or a professional player running a 7 pack in a tournament.
7) I think one of the major things needed to be done to promote this sport is to set up pool tournaments and events in public places. In Asia they have used very large shopping malls to showcase the sport and have thus introduced the sport to many people who knew little about it and were simply there to shop. I think if you are doing a tournament in a casino in Vegas then having one table for matches that is actually in the casino and that can be seen by the people who pass by is 1000 times more useful in promoting a sport so very under the radar then having the pro event in the back of a convention center of the casino behind closed doors and with a $10 admission price.
8) I think it is VERY important for pool to attempt to globalize the professional tour as quickly as possible. Regional and even national professional tours need to become a thing of the past and the sport needs to become global with the best players from all of the countries competing against each other in all of the major professional events. I think that there should be events in Asia, Europe, North America, and the Middle East that take place on the tour each year. This also compels the amature league system to all be under the same umbrella, but for amature championships to save on costs each area of the world can have their own regional championships.
None of this is instant, it is something to work towards, it would start with a serious commitement at the league level and the footwork of creating the fledgling professional tour which would admittedly start small. Early in the development of the pro tour the promotion of the tour with the events in popular areas where the general public can view it is critical and at that time the league system and amature game should be advertised and promoted heavily to get more people into pool as a recreational activity. At the same time the promotion of the game to the youth and in schools, specifically to get the league system going would also be important to push. Junior leagues and the like are huge opportunities to build future interest in the sport.
I could go on and on and on about this. For people actually putting as much effort and time and money into the game as the Bonus Ball people are putting into that I can only shake my head at the direction they chose to go and how much they tried to reinvent the wheel. The public's cries that 8-ball is their game fell on deaf ears yet again. 8-ball has NEVER been given an honest chance at being the proper professional game in pool. The IPT was a gong show that was impossible to watch and had almost no marketing, TAR is awesome but it is a niche product that only pool zealots know about, the general public mostly got tons of 9-ball shoved in their faces for years and they finally tuned right out of this game. Now we are going to give them Bonus Ball and expect them to eat it up? Uhh, no, aint gonna happen, sorry. Even with 8-ball the work that would need to be done to promote the game and get people interested in watching pro pool even when they already know, like, and play the game being presented would be significant.
I hope you guys who think it will fail before it has even begun have a dish of this, but we shall see. :grin:
No flaming from here. I am admittedly being a little defensive, but I don't see anything wrong with that because I believe the WPBL is on the right track. I've been hearing people say for years, "YOU need to do this" and "YOU need to do that" when talking about what other people should do with their money. Instead, they should come up with their own money and then say, "I will do this" and "I will do that." Larry Chiborak is putting up his own money to fund Bonus Ball. None of us has the slightest right to tell him how he should run it.
This poll questioned whether we like, or hate, Bonus Ball. I like it! :grin::grin:
Go Phoenix Flames!
Roger
I hope you guys who think it will fail before it has even begun have a dish of this, but we shall see. :grin:
so long as a side of KFC gravy, biscuits, and slaw comes with it:grin:
Everyone understands that you have opinions. Just vote. That is good enough. Many times it is better to just be quiet and sit back and watch development and evolution run its course. We all know how tough the odds are here for these folks. I root for these people because I want pool to succeed. You are ready to put a bullet in the horses head before he even gets out of the gate and gets injured.
The best thing about this league is Bonus Ball. It is by far the best game on the planet at this moment. I'm looking at this poll and thinking, really, 28 players like it already? Nice. I had to actually play it myself for 10-20 games before it really clicked in for me. Bustamante played it for 20 minutes and was amazing playing this game. Varner is a monster when playing. Darren Appleton said it is the very best pool game he has ever played. Archer has been sold on it from day one. More so now than when he first played it.
The list of top players that love it is growing day by day. The pros have taken Bonus Ball since it was first introduced to them at the US Open in Chesepeake and have spent countless hours fine tuning it. I formed a league for amateurs that instantly wiped out the BCA Advance division in my home town. The game is awesome to play at any level. The rules are absolutely easy to remember and most ten years olds that I teach are flying around the table in no time.
The game has had rules removed, timing has changed and the point structure has changed. That's called progress. The four years of my life that I have given to this game has watched it grow and mature and has gotten Larry so excited that he dumped a few million into launching this league. Yahoo. Good and brave of him! There are many questions to be answered but is it a good game, dam rights and that is a fact. I was there when it was filmed and yes the taping was a promo and yes the crowd maybe clapped more than they needed to but I never saw anybody going around with a plaque card saying clap now. They were encouraged to make noise and enjoy themself and not sit there bored as hell waiting for someone to pot the final ball to express gratitude that the dam game was over, like I have seen at the US Open and the Mosconi Cup! When Larry releases the Team Canada vs Team USA video soon, you will be treated to a real match, won by the best players playing with focus and determination. It was fun to watch!
I played Eight Ball as an amateur and enjoyed the game until I reached a certain level and then I wanted more. Eight Ball is not the game for top players. It's just not challenging enough/ That is why players drop out of league when they get there skills honed. That is the case with all leagues. The better you get, the more the simplicity of Eight Ball bores you to death. This is not a bad thing. Eight Ball is a great game when your learning because it is simple and pool is very hard to master.
To close my post I will use an example here. In car racing we have several divisions. All divisions have different rules. Each driver perform at what ever level they bring to the table, from Street Stocks to killer Late Models. It has never hurt the sport to have different divisions. That is how drivers develop. They start off in the Street Stocks and progress up to where ever. In pool, you have Street Stock, it's called Eight Ball. Now you have a killer game called Bonus Ball. Same game, just modified, tougher and a wicked ride! Believe me, as a driver that has run Street Stock all the way up to super fast Modifieds, I don't look down at Street Stock rules. It's the same game that I played as I developed. I feel the same about Eight Ball today, great game but I enjoy playing Bonus Ball at the level I'm at today! It has way more strategy and forces some toe curling shots out of you! It's still just billiards!!! Relax everybody! Enjoy your Eight Ball and watch the professionals play Bonus Ball.
PS I also wear a uniform when I race! They did not back in the 70's! Things in the world have progressed!
The list of top players that love it is growing day by day. The pros have taken Bonus Ball since it was first introduced to them at the US Open in Chesepeake and have spent countless hours fine tuning it. I formed a league for amateurs that instantly wiped out the BCA Advance division in my home town. The game is awesome to play at any level. The rules are absolutely easy to remember and most ten years olds that I teach are flying around the table in no time.
The game has had rules removed, timing has changed and the point structure has changed. That's called progress. The four years of my life that I have given to this game has watched it grow and mature and has gotten Larry so excited that he dumped a few million into launching this league. Yahoo. Good and brave of him! There are many questions to be answered but is it a good game, dam rights and that is a fact. I was there when it was filmed and yes the taping was a promo and yes the crowd maybe clapped more than they needed to but I never saw anybody going around with a plaque card saying clap now. They were encouraged to make noise and enjoy themself and not sit there bored as hell waiting for someone to pot the final ball to express gratitude that the dam game was over, like I have seen at the US Open and the Mosconi Cup! When Larry releases the Team Canada vs Team USA video soon, you will be treated to a real match, won by the best players playing with focus and determination. It was fun to watch!
I played Eight Ball as an amateur and enjoyed the game until I reached a certain level and then I wanted more. Eight Ball is not the game for top players. It's just not challenging enough/ That is why players drop out of league when they get there skills honed. That is the case with all leagues. The better you get, the more the simplicity of Eight Ball bores you to death. This is not a bad thing. Eight Ball is a great game when your learning because it is simple and pool is very hard to master.
To close my post I will use an example here. In car racing we have several divisions. All divisions have different rules. Each driver perform at what ever level they bring to the table, from Street Stocks to killer Late Models. It has never hurt the sport to have different divisions. That is how drivers develop. They start off in the Street Stocks and progress up to where ever. In pool, you have Street Stock, it's called Eight Ball. Now you have a killer game called Bonus Ball. Same game, just modified, tougher and a wicked ride! Believe me, as a driver that has run Street Stock all the way up to super fast Modifieds, I don't look down at Street Stock rules. It's the same game that I played as I developed. I feel the same about Eight Ball today, great game but I enjoy playing Bonus Ball at the level I'm at today! It has way more strategy and forces some toe curling shots out of you! It's still just billiards!!! Relax everybody! Enjoy your Eight Ball and watch the professionals play Bonus Ball.
PS I also wear a uniform when I race! They did not back in the 70's! Things in the world have progressed!
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I want to be on a team.
Well said.
Bump...
I think this game shows and exploits the strengths and weaknesses of the all pro's, which is good thing IMO. Traditionalists...wise up and support your cue sports in all forms. This is a new form and a great one at that.
I was ridiculed earlier in this post by one on this thread, for jumping the gun, but I believe in this format.
Not perfect, but better than we have had for many reasons. Let me state that I have nothing invested in this game...only as a fan and a passionate supporter of all forms of billiards (i.e. pool).
Please be open minded and judge Bonus Ball with your heart.
I think this game shows and exploits the strengths and weaknesses of the all pro's, which is good thing IMO. Traditionalists...wise up and support your cue sports in all forms. This is a new form and a great one at that.
I was ridiculed earlier in this post by one on this thread, for jumping the gun, but I believe in this format.
Not perfect, but better than we have had for many reasons. Let me state that I have nothing invested in this game...only as a fan and a passionate supporter of all forms of billiards (i.e. pool).
Please be open minded and judge Bonus Ball with your heart.
Everything the people with vested interests post on this subject sound like a cheap infomercial for a kitchen aid. Stop with all the superlatives, if it's any good it will stand on it's own merit not because you told us it is.
The game was uninteresting to me, I cant be bothered keeping track. The presentation and MC were very tacky.
You asked.
The game was uninteresting to me, I cant be bothered keeping track. The presentation and MC were very tacky.
You asked.
Nobody trying to sell anybody anything. So, it can't be said to be an info commercial. Anybody posting positive about this game is well educated on the game and you can bet have played the game. Assuming that Slasher has no interest in the game, it's highly unlikely he has played Bonus Ball several times and can tell us exactly what he dislikes about the game!
I have always asked people to tell me what is wrong with the game that makes you diss it? Do you not like it because it's the game professional players don't want to play because they started off playing as a novice or because it is as a bar game? Do you not like it because it is a huge defensive game? Do you not like it because you can't sink a ball by fluke and win? Do you not like it because you need to earn points to win rather than sink eight balls that count for nothing then will win if your the last one to pocket the final ball? Do you not like it because professional players have played it for decades and most are still starving and have no television coverage. Do you not like it because players are not wear vested outfits? Do you not like it because it's tacky to try and look like a sport when pool should remain the same as it has always been?
Of course, not. Bonus Ball is none of the above.
I have always asked people to tell me what is wrong with the game that makes you diss it? Do you not like it because it's the game professional players don't want to play because they started off playing as a novice or because it is as a bar game? Do you not like it because it is a huge defensive game? Do you not like it because you can't sink a ball by fluke and win? Do you not like it because you need to earn points to win rather than sink eight balls that count for nothing then will win if your the last one to pocket the final ball? Do you not like it because professional players have played it for decades and most are still starving and have no television coverage. Do you not like it because players are not wear vested outfits? Do you not like it because it's tacky to try and look like a sport when pool should remain the same as it has always been?
Of course, not. Bonus Ball is none of the above.
Yeah, but what's the point of putting this poll on a pool website? This would be a poll for the general public to answer (minimum 1,000 respondents).
Maniac (of course we AZB'ers want to see "a professional league of billiard players entertaining us like mainstream sports")
