Thanks Lenny. I just finished reading the whole thread, and your post, along with others from the people involved, did address many of my comments.
ps, since you have the inside scoop, you will have to lay 3:1 odds on all action room wagers...
Bonus ball professional league announced
- Thread starter vpbb123
- Start date
Thanks Lenny. I just finished reading the whole thread, and your post, along with others from the people involved, did address many of my comments.
ps, since you have the inside scoop, you will have to lay 3:1 odds on all action room wagers...
Haha, funny stuff. I hope you can make it out to Vegas and sweat it in person.
Seems like a fun game.
Certainly way more interesting then that 9ball crap.
Kind of reminds me of the ORIGINAL 7ball, where the person who didn't break the balls, got to choose which side of the table the person breaking, had to make the 7ball in. It added that little twist, and actually made the game interesting when you saw the old guys on ESPN having to come up with some trick shots to make the 7ball. Shame they didn't keep that aspect of the game when they tried to redo 7ball some years ago. It would have been WAY better then just running 7 balls.
As such, here is a game that brings some thought and creativity to the table with the format and pocket choices.
Why the hell not.
What's the worst that can happen? It fails? Well at least they gave it a good run.
Good luck with it.
Certainly way more interesting then that 9ball crap.
Kind of reminds me of the ORIGINAL 7ball, where the person who didn't break the balls, got to choose which side of the table the person breaking, had to make the 7ball in. It added that little twist, and actually made the game interesting when you saw the old guys on ESPN having to come up with some trick shots to make the 7ball. Shame they didn't keep that aspect of the game when they tried to redo 7ball some years ago. It would have been WAY better then just running 7 balls.
As such, here is a game that brings some thought and creativity to the table with the format and pocket choices.
Why the hell not.
What's the worst that can happen? It fails? Well at least they gave it a good run.
Good luck with it.
Thanks, you know that ill try my best. You've seen me play bonus ball a bunch, tell these fools how sick my game is.
They should call you Bonus Lock.
Sorry for not being serious with all my posts Lou. It is hard to remain that way when I read so many posts that are not at the intellectual level of a 10 year old!
Getting back to serious, pretty well everyone is skeptical about this game since I first introduced it at the US Open in Chesepeake back in 2009. Everyone has a quick opinion and Larry is a genuine nice guy who aims to please everyone. This has resulted in so many changes that even I don't know from day to day what the rules are. I assure you that after two years of changing this and changing that, we have come full circle back to a game that is not easy as 1-2-3 but a very challenging game that any player of any level will enjoy playing.
Here's a fact, every time I teach someone the game, I get very positive feed back. Here is the problem, I can't possibly live long enough to go around the world teaching people one at a time. That is something that Larry and I realized from day one. We also realized that people going to our web site to read the rules was not going to turn them into Bonus Ball fanatics either. (By the way Lenny, the rules are fully up-dated)
Larry always loved Johnny Archer from the time he first had him play Bonus Ball ten years ago. The game was not the same back then other than the concept was the same. I sat in one of Larry's up-scale pool halls with Johnny and Larry when they shook hands to develop a professional league. This is Larry's league and I don't doubt that there will be rough waters ahead for him. Without fans support he will eventually fade away, like Galveston and Ultimate Ten Ball. These two events were interesting and should have survived but in the end, you need some revenue to carry on.
Larry is offering a totally new concept to pool fans. Even I don't know where this will all go but I do know one thing, this game and these teams will be entertaining. I've seen that over and over. We all have something to gain if this is successful. We all lose if this fails.
Larry has schedule 132 regular season games with 36 top players, mostly American players. There are 12 teams representing 12 cities. You will be able to watch the games on the net if you desire but of course there will be a small cost. There will also, at least there is supposed to be a FREE show during the week every week, starting in November too. We have already started talks with television about broadcasting on several sports channels. They like the concept. They loved the look. Billiards is a great game and I don't know anyone that has not picked up a cue or doesn't know about the game. Billiards is marketable but not the way it is marketed now. That is not a revolutionary statement. I hope everyone gives it a chance and I hope you get some entertainment value from the production. Any questions from here on in can and will be answered from my email address. barry@playbonusball.com Thanks for your time!
Getting back to serious, pretty well everyone is skeptical about this game since I first introduced it at the US Open in Chesepeake back in 2009. Everyone has a quick opinion and Larry is a genuine nice guy who aims to please everyone. This has resulted in so many changes that even I don't know from day to day what the rules are. I assure you that after two years of changing this and changing that, we have come full circle back to a game that is not easy as 1-2-3 but a very challenging game that any player of any level will enjoy playing.
Here's a fact, every time I teach someone the game, I get very positive feed back. Here is the problem, I can't possibly live long enough to go around the world teaching people one at a time. That is something that Larry and I realized from day one. We also realized that people going to our web site to read the rules was not going to turn them into Bonus Ball fanatics either. (By the way Lenny, the rules are fully up-dated)
Larry always loved Johnny Archer from the time he first had him play Bonus Ball ten years ago. The game was not the same back then other than the concept was the same. I sat in one of Larry's up-scale pool halls with Johnny and Larry when they shook hands to develop a professional league. This is Larry's league and I don't doubt that there will be rough waters ahead for him. Without fans support he will eventually fade away, like Galveston and Ultimate Ten Ball. These two events were interesting and should have survived but in the end, you need some revenue to carry on.
Larry is offering a totally new concept to pool fans. Even I don't know where this will all go but I do know one thing, this game and these teams will be entertaining. I've seen that over and over. We all have something to gain if this is successful. We all lose if this fails.
Larry has schedule 132 regular season games with 36 top players, mostly American players. There are 12 teams representing 12 cities. You will be able to watch the games on the net if you desire but of course there will be a small cost. There will also, at least there is supposed to be a FREE show during the week every week, starting in November too. We have already started talks with television about broadcasting on several sports channels. They like the concept. They loved the look. Billiards is a great game and I don't know anyone that has not picked up a cue or doesn't know about the game. Billiards is marketable but not the way it is marketed now. That is not a revolutionary statement. I hope everyone gives it a chance and I hope you get some entertainment value from the production. Any questions from here on in can and will be answered from my email address. barry@playbonusball.com Thanks for your time!
One thing i think definitely must happen is that time needs to be made before or during the season for each team to visit their "hometowns" and put on demos of Bonus Ball, a kind of grassroots marketing effort. The teams need to build a fanbase, get people genuinely interested in watching.
Just a thought.
Just a thought.
The ideal situation to properly marketing anything new is mass marketing. The internet is the most affordable way of doing this. The nice thing about Bonus Ball being marketed through the internet is there is nothing to teach the existing billiard world other than a different structure. There are no new shots, no different cues, the table is the same. Other than a points scoring game, Bonus Ball is simply a lot of the great things about pool, as we all know it today.
Perhaps the biggest new rule that the professionals wanted is a nine ball shot. In Bonus Ball it is called a defensive shot and targeting. Because of the nature of the three pockets, many times a player was in trouble because if a ball moved directly over an opponents pocket, you had no shot. This slowed down the game to a snails pace.
The professionals addressed this problem with the shot..."targeting" into any pocket, any time, the Bonus Ball. You can always score points and move the Bonus Ball back to the center of the table. It is the exact same shot as sinking the nine ball, except you don't win the game, which I find ridiculous! You get 3 bonus points.
The defensive shot works the same way as nine ball when you pocket the six ball with the object ball, let say, the three ball. You are still shooting the three ball on your next shot. The only twist is that you can only do this into your opponents pocket in Bonus Ball. This gives you a means to hold the table and remove any ball near your opponents pocket. You never get points for this shot but you do get to hold the table.
The game is also similar to rotation games because you follow a sequence. You must pocket a purple ball, then the orange, followed by a shot at the Bonus Ball. Miss the Bonus Ball and you must start the sequence all over again. This is why this game was named Bonus Ball. The Bonus Ball is the main ball on the table and worth the most points!
You must always perform a legal shot. There are no flukes allowed! So if you pocket anything without calling the pocket (like most eight ball leagues) they simply re-spot on the table. It all really elementary. You do need to pick up you cue though and play the game a bit! Then it all comes clearer.
I have played and watch thousands of games of Bonus Ball. I know this is a great game. I'm no way near the level of the professional player but I'm not a bum either! I'm an Advanced ranked VNEA league player, and a seven in APA in Eight Ball. If this game was corny in any way, I would not speak for it! It's a real well structured game that I hope you will try it and have fun with.
Perhaps the biggest new rule that the professionals wanted is a nine ball shot. In Bonus Ball it is called a defensive shot and targeting. Because of the nature of the three pockets, many times a player was in trouble because if a ball moved directly over an opponents pocket, you had no shot. This slowed down the game to a snails pace.
The professionals addressed this problem with the shot..."targeting" into any pocket, any time, the Bonus Ball. You can always score points and move the Bonus Ball back to the center of the table. It is the exact same shot as sinking the nine ball, except you don't win the game, which I find ridiculous! You get 3 bonus points.
The defensive shot works the same way as nine ball when you pocket the six ball with the object ball, let say, the three ball. You are still shooting the three ball on your next shot. The only twist is that you can only do this into your opponents pocket in Bonus Ball. This gives you a means to hold the table and remove any ball near your opponents pocket. You never get points for this shot but you do get to hold the table.
The game is also similar to rotation games because you follow a sequence. You must pocket a purple ball, then the orange, followed by a shot at the Bonus Ball. Miss the Bonus Ball and you must start the sequence all over again. This is why this game was named Bonus Ball. The Bonus Ball is the main ball on the table and worth the most points!
You must always perform a legal shot. There are no flukes allowed! So if you pocket anything without calling the pocket (like most eight ball leagues) they simply re-spot on the table. It all really elementary. You do need to pick up you cue though and play the game a bit! Then it all comes clearer.
I have played and watch thousands of games of Bonus Ball. I know this is a great game. I'm no way near the level of the professional player but I'm not a bum either! I'm an Advanced ranked VNEA league player, and a seven in APA in Eight Ball. If this game was corny in any way, I would not speak for it! It's a real well structured game that I hope you will try it and have fun with.
Thanks Barry, here is the link for the rules. http://www.playbonusball.com/newrules.html
No. Mass marketing is not the proper way to market everything new.
It might be fine for the latest Thigh Master, Ginsu Knife set, or the latest thingie from Ronco but you are not marketing a one time product purchase. You are asking people to commit... maybe closer to a Jenny Craig situation. But at least in the case of Jenny Craig there are lots of folks that will try anything to lose weight. Not the same situation for getting recreational pool players involved.
I know you can't teach everyone yourself but you say you have several dozen pro pool players on your roster... you need to get them involved and send them out into the field to build grass roots support by teaching and playing the game and organizing bonus ball leagues and tournaments. I'm not sure that even that would work but it'll have a better shot. Otherwise you are DOA, IMO.
Best wishes and all that.
Lou Figueroa
Grass roots .... It would be simple enough for some - like JA who has his own place at MBC - to schedule a FUN little intro tourney. Get people playing, make it low entry or free, have an instructional section prior, offer coaching, etc.
Hell they do nine ball and eight ball tourneys for small stakes all the time. DO BONUS BALL NIGHT!
I'd play......
Hell they do nine ball and eight ball tourneys for small stakes all the time. DO BONUS BALL NIGHT!
I'd play......
Lou...Not only that, but there are literally DOZENS of "weight loss programs" to choose from...all competing for the same "commitment". Bonus Ball stands alone, in this respect.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
OK -- I just read all of the rules (after downloading like 20 PDFs, which was annoying). Why not just post the info on a webpage? OR, make ONE PDF instead of breaking it into a ton of files.
Anyways...
What is meant by "targeting?" I'm not sure if they clearly defined that. For instance, I believe there was one place where they said the final bonus ball had to be made in one of your pockets, but could be targeted in any pocket. That didn't make much sense.
Can anyone clarify?
So, when the bonus ball is the last ball left, you rack the other 8 and shoot a 14.1 break shot? Do the pros restart the sequence after a miss or only after missing a bonus ball? I think it's a better game if you restart the sequence after a miss--- regardless of what ball you're on. Otherwise, I can see tons of arguing over who made what and who's on what ball in the sequence, etc. Your thoughts?
Dave
Anyways...
What is meant by "targeting?" I'm not sure if they clearly defined that. For instance, I believe there was one place where they said the final bonus ball had to be made in one of your pockets, but could be targeted in any pocket. That didn't make much sense.
Can anyone clarify?
So, when the bonus ball is the last ball left, you rack the other 8 and shoot a 14.1 break shot? Do the pros restart the sequence after a miss or only after missing a bonus ball? I think it's a better game if you restart the sequence after a miss--- regardless of what ball you're on. Otherwise, I can see tons of arguing over who made what and who's on what ball in the sequence, etc. Your thoughts?
Dave
TARGETING the Bonus Ball is similar to using your object ball to pocket the nine ball but in Bonus Ball it's simply worth three points and you carry on after re-spotting the Bonus Ball.
It's a fun shot to watch for and yes, we had to make it pocket-able into all pockets because smart pro players would simply push it over to one of their own pockets, taking the shot away from their opponent.
As far as the rules, they have been dissected and formulated by top players like Darren Appleton and Johnny Archer to name a few. I had them all bunched together and then people complained they wanted them in printable sections. The easiest way to learn the rules is watch the FREE preview matches of the professional players several times and then start playing the game. It's easy to learn but tougher to play. Look at your PDFs if your still confused. Maybe you just want to play a simple game, then 6 pocket Bonus Ball is perfect for beginners. It plays somewhat like Eight Ball but you still have the scoring. I personally can't stand playing either any more. I'm just bored with both! I want a strategic game and rather fast, offensive game and I got it, Bonus Ball!
The WPBL is mass marketing. You can watch your favorite professional players or team and learn from there. This game will eventually take hold and have it's own market. It certainly is not for every player. It's definitely the game for top strategic players. You don't have to be a professional to play Bonus Ball. You have to want to play this type of game.
I have many great friends that play eight ball bar box and they are happy trying pot balls, never mind to play a game that incorporates so many bank shots, caroms and two and three rail shots. Still they say the find this game way more fun, even though they struggle with it. The best thing about it they always get many visits to the table, win or lose. There is something to say about that!
It's a fun shot to watch for and yes, we had to make it pocket-able into all pockets because smart pro players would simply push it over to one of their own pockets, taking the shot away from their opponent.
As far as the rules, they have been dissected and formulated by top players like Darren Appleton and Johnny Archer to name a few. I had them all bunched together and then people complained they wanted them in printable sections. The easiest way to learn the rules is watch the FREE preview matches of the professional players several times and then start playing the game. It's easy to learn but tougher to play. Look at your PDFs if your still confused. Maybe you just want to play a simple game, then 6 pocket Bonus Ball is perfect for beginners. It plays somewhat like Eight Ball but you still have the scoring. I personally can't stand playing either any more. I'm just bored with both! I want a strategic game and rather fast, offensive game and I got it, Bonus Ball!
The WPBL is mass marketing. You can watch your favorite professional players or team and learn from there. This game will eventually take hold and have it's own market. It certainly is not for every player. It's definitely the game for top strategic players. You don't have to be a professional to play Bonus Ball. You have to want to play this type of game.
I have many great friends that play eight ball bar box and they are happy trying pot balls, never mind to play a game that incorporates so many bank shots, caroms and two and three rail shots. Still they say the find this game way more fun, even though they struggle with it. The best thing about it they always get many visits to the table, win or lose. There is something to say about that!
So, when the bonus ball is the last ball left, you rack the other 8 and shoot a 14.1 break shot? Do the pros restart the sequence after a miss or only after missing a bonus ball? I think it's a better game if you restart the sequence after a miss--- regardless of what ball you're on. Otherwise, I can see tons of arguing over who made what and who's on what ball in the sequence, etc. Your thoughts?
The game is real firm on it's rules. ANY TIME you miss pocketing the Bonus Ball, you only get one shot at it. You always return to purple. You lose that three points for failing to pocket the Bonus Ball, forever. The pros decide the last time I was in Vegas with them that they would like the Bonus Ball to go into any pocket when going for the 14:1 break shot. This will give them a better chance to hold the table. It does. I like it. It was decided though, when going for the win (30 points) you need to put the Bonus Ball into your own pocket at all times! Pretty easy to remember that.
If you think a rule is dumb in this game you need to ask yourself this question, why the hell the top pros in the world let this rule stay. It's a rule because it makes the game flow better and it solves different problems that pop up in a three pocket game!
The game is real firm on it's rules. ANY TIME you miss pocketing the Bonus Ball, you only get one shot at it. You always return to purple. You lose that three points for failing to pocket the Bonus Ball, forever. The pros decide the last time I was in Vegas with them that they would like the Bonus Ball to go into any pocket when going for the 14:1 break shot. This will give them a better chance to hold the table. It does. I like it. It was decided though, when going for the win (30 points) you need to put the Bonus Ball into your own pocket at all times! Pretty easy to remember that.
If you think a rule is dumb in this game you need to ask yourself this question, why the hell the top pros in the world let this rule stay. It's a rule because it makes the game flow better and it solves different problems that pop up in a three pocket game!
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Dave,
The entire website is currently being overhauled for a Nov 1st launch.... Everything will be laid out much more clearly at that time.
For now to answer your questions..... "Targeting" is a shot similar to an early 9 ball shot..... at any time during the game if you are on a purple or orange ball you may call a "target" shot where you attempt to combo or carom the bonus ball into any pocket (including your opponents) but you must make contact with your object ball first. If the shot is successful you are awarded 3 pts the bonus ball spots and you continue your run on the color that you were shooting. If unsuccessful you give up the table to your opponent.
The confusion with the bonus ball must be made in your own pocket is understandable.... There are 3 versions of the game for different skill levels.... In the basic skills level the game is just a sequence game using all 6 pockets. The advanced level you use only the 3 designed pockets except for the bonus ball may be made in any pocket during the game except if it is the game winning ball it must be made into one of your own 3 pockets.
The pro version uses only the designed 3 pockets with the exception of a "target" shot and the break shot.
The Break shot is very similar to a straight pool break shot.... once the bonus ball is the only ball remaining on the table the other 8 balls are racked and the player may make the bonus ball in any pocket that player must make the ball and make contact with the rack to continue their run..... If they fail to make contact with the rack the incoming player receives a break and shoot (like at the beginning of the game).
The way the sequence is played at all levels is that you stay on the ball you are shooting until you successfully make it... with the exception being the "bonus ball" hence the name ..... you only get one attempt at it before you have to work your way back up to it again.... that is why it holds the largest point value (3).
The way the scoreboard software is set up.... you always know what ball you and your opponent are on by looking at the scoreboard..... and for the WPBL the live audience as well as the players are made aware of the color by the lighting system changing the wall colors in accordance to the ball being shot..... for those watching on TV or the internet the graphic along the bottom of the screen will always tell you which ball each team is on as well.
Please feel free to ask anymore questions you can think of.
Thanks,
Dave
I hate the six pocket easy as 1-2-3 rules section but the game is so easy to learn if you play a few games of it to learn the basics. Once you got that part of the rules down pat, grab the two ADVANCED PDFs and learn the real Bonus Ball rules. It is real easy then to understand the rules. Really, just grab a friend for a few hours and play, then you will understand and enjoy this game.
When I first played Eight Ball is was so easy! Then I joined league and there was scoring, ball in hand rules etc. There are reasons for rules. Just learn them to enjoy the game properly!
When I first played Eight Ball is was so easy! Then I joined league and there was scoring, ball in hand rules etc. There are reasons for rules. Just learn them to enjoy the game properly!
I don't think it's stupid, I was just saying it makes more sense to repeat the sequence after a miss. It eliminates confusion and rewards players who can keep a run going.
So are you allowed successive defensive shots? One per inning? How does that work?
Yes, you may use a defensive shot as many times as you want.
Like nine ball, you can use the object ball, say the one ball (for example) and pocket any or all the balls.
The defensive shot is the same in Bonus Ball, but you may only call this shot when pocketing into your opponents pocket. There are no points, the ball is re-spotted and you continue your visit, still on the same object ball. You may also use the Bonus Ball as on a defensive shot, if that is your object ball.
The reason you need a defensive shot is to keep the game flowing and to have a way to move balls over or near your opponents pocket. Without it, the games slows down like One Pocket does. That does not make for great viewing. I really like this addition to the game! It really gives you many options and strategies when at the table! Of course if you fail to complete your call defensive shot, you lose your visit! If you make your called defensive shot and your object ball falls with it, both balls simply re-spot and you carry on with your visit. This is the only time you can have your object ball fall into your opponents pocket and not give up a ball in hand.
If you call a defensive shot and say accidentally put an orange into your own pocket, that simply ends your visit and the ball re-spots. All balls pocketed must be a called. There are no flukes in Bonus Ball! Watch our FREE previews and you will quickly learn the game! www.playbonusball.com
Like nine ball, you can use the object ball, say the one ball (for example) and pocket any or all the balls.
The defensive shot is the same in Bonus Ball, but you may only call this shot when pocketing into your opponents pocket. There are no points, the ball is re-spotted and you continue your visit, still on the same object ball. You may also use the Bonus Ball as on a defensive shot, if that is your object ball.
The reason you need a defensive shot is to keep the game flowing and to have a way to move balls over or near your opponents pocket. Without it, the games slows down like One Pocket does. That does not make for great viewing. I really like this addition to the game! It really gives you many options and strategies when at the table! Of course if you fail to complete your call defensive shot, you lose your visit! If you make your called defensive shot and your object ball falls with it, both balls simply re-spot and you carry on with your visit. This is the only time you can have your object ball fall into your opponents pocket and not give up a ball in hand.
If you call a defensive shot and say accidentally put an orange into your own pocket, that simply ends your visit and the ball re-spots. All balls pocketed must be a called. There are no flukes in Bonus Ball! Watch our FREE previews and you will quickly learn the game! www.playbonusball.com
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