10 YEAR OLD TIME CAPSULE POST ...Is the world ready for cues to evolve?

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nobcitypool said:
Why try to revolutionize the equipment when the players have gotten so good tournaments now have to be played on 10' tables with small pockets?

I'm highly confident it would be possible to develop a superior playing cue, however, who is going to invest the money to do that? It may take anywhere from $100K to $1 million in R&D as well as tooling to "mass produce" the product. Further, don't assume the product would be sold cheaply. When you start looking at materials such as Kevlar and Titanium, the cost goes up substantially. How many $2,000 to $4,000 cues are going to be sold even if they do offer superior playability, particularly if they don't fit the eye of being traditionally attractive?

The fact is, when compared to a sport like golf, the volume in pool simply isn't there. Sure, there's countless golfers who will stand in line to lay down $500 to buy the latest, greatest driver that will supposedly add 10 yards to their drives. What is the advance expected in a pool cue? How many people will lay down $500 in order to get 1/2 tip less deflection? Regardless of the material used, there is a point of diminishing returns for a LD shaft since it is primarily dictated by mass. Point is, you already have a number of high quality, LD shafts available that sell for $250 and less.

I'm guessing if someone were to come up with something too crazy, the controlling organization may take steps to prevent it with rules to protect the sanctity of the game. As someone already mentioned, the rubber tips aren't legal for most competition.
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I agree with everything you said...completely. I think pool hasn't got the dollars behind it, and I don't think that the world of players are ready to embrace much change either...many people are still fighting LD shafts despite their obvious and prove able advantages. I do like the nostalgia of tradition when it comes to pool...I would be saddened to see everyone playing with titanium cues...really like my wood cues...I just think its coming-whether we like it or not...

I just don't think it's logical hat it will remain unchanged. Heck, even many shotguns and rifles are synthetic instead of wood, and I would have thought that they would be the last thing to evolve...especially since there was absolutely no gain in performance-only durability.
 
Most Harley owners also don't want a lot of technology. The culture values tradition and craftsmanship over technology and the latest shiney, blinking object.
 
Antfarm said:
As a matter of fact, I just found a link for some being sold on the Bay. These aren't the same as the one I had (mine was grey and made by DuPont) but they are close. I would imagine they play very similar. I think I will get some and put them on a spare shaft.
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Lol, they look fun. I think when my tip is worn right down on my Z shaft, I'll pop one of these babies on and see what happens. I know my friends will laugh at me, but hey at least getting good draw will never be an issue again. :grin:
 
Bob Callahan said:
This research may have something to do with this topic:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/110903142411.htm

The cue this guy has created might be the best cue in the world for all I know...but what I do know for sure is that it will be hard to get it accepted by the pool world if it is:

http://gladiators-usa.com/Mjolnir Cue - Model 001.htm
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WOW-would like to try it, but boy is it ugly, lol
Love the thought he put into the tune ability, needs to think about aesthetics...BTW, GREAT ARTICLE-really sums it up!
 
just a short reply:

i dont know why most people try to connect golf and pool? or even tennis?

as many here stated golf and tennis need more "power", longer distances, or a faster paced game against an opponent (tennis), the differences between these sports are huge!

Pool is a game that needs dexterity, patience, planning. it would imho be more comparable to chess then to golf or tennis ;)

have you heard a chess player asking for carbon fiber figures? :embarrassed2:

on the other hand, there has been a lot of "progress". someone talked about a cue that makes drawshots easier; we already have them! try these LD wipes out, they create so much spin even with a sloppy stroke.

im on a more traditionnal side for cues. i like beautifull woods and i dont think theres a need for change. the range of this material when it comes to looks, weight, hit, sound etc is naturally so big, why would we need some material that will never (probably) replace wood?

i think the revolution or evolution in pool needs to be started with tables. not the design... maybe a way to produce them cheaper? to allow more people to own a table? or more Billard clubs? maybe a fast way to store big tables (like a table tennis table, just with the same characteristics as our current tables)

our cues are perfect imho.

have a nice day, im going to my league match (with my plain jane that serves me perfect :cool: just please fix my nerves :grin-square: )
 
Isn't it true that a radial pin has less stress on the wood threads inside the shaft, less chance of cross threading and less chance of wear?

That is about the only benefit that I have heard of regarding these pins.

I own cues of all thread types including the modified 3/8 10 and could never tell the difference between them as far as feel. Of course we know there is more to a cue then the pin.





DoubleD said:
Ballscrews were indeed designed to reduce friction as much as possible, but that was due to the moving/circulating balls which roll on the contact surfaces instead of sliding.

Which basically brings me to the point I scream about every time joints come up--there is no practical purpose for every cuemaker to make new joints.

5/16-14 and -18 both work well in cues with inserts.

To thread into wood, a screw needs to be a coarse thread--3/8-10 works well for that.

What does a radial pin do that the others don't/can't? I defy anyone to prove, in a scientific way, that there is one positive benefit to using a radial, wave, modified 3/8-10, pin over any of the pins designed using 60degree threads and accepted standards.

dld
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bender_lu said:
just a short reply:

i dont know why most people try to connect golf and pool? or even tennis?

as many here stated golf and tennis need more "power", longer distances, or a faster paced game against an opponent (tennis), the differences between these sports are huge!

Pool is a game that needs dexterity, patience, planning. it would imho be more comparable to chess then to golf or tennis ;)

have you heard a chess player asking for carbon fiber figures? :embarrassed2:

on the other hand, there has been a lot of "progress". someone talked about a cue that makes drawshots easier; we already have them! try these LD wipes out, they create so much spin even with a sloppy stroke.

im on a more traditionnal side for cues. i like beautifull woods and i dont think theres a need for change. the range of this material when it comes to looks, weight, hit, sound etc is naturally so big, why would we need some material that will never (probably) replace wood?

i think the revolution or evolution in pool needs to be started with tables. not the design... maybe a way to produce them cheaper? to allow more people to own a table? or more Billard clubs? maybe a fast way to store big tables (like a table tennis table, just with the same characteristics as our current tables)

our cues are perfect imho.

have a nice day, im going to my league match (with my plain jane that serves me perfect :cool: just please fix my nerves :grin-square: )
Click to expand...

The reason we connect tennis and golf, etc to pool, is because they are direct similar sports. Let's see...in all of these sports, a person holds an instrument in their hands which they will use hand eye co-ordination to strike a ball.

In all cases, that instrument was originally made from WOOD...pool is the only sport that hasnt evolved widely into other materials.

To say that moving a chess piece around a board with your fingers, is the more comparable to pool than other SPORTS where you strike a ball, using an instrument, ....is absolutely CRAZY!!!??? The only thing they have in common, is that u need to use your brain in both. You need to use your brain for almost all activities in life, that doesn't make those activities just like pool.

As far as tennis and golf utilizing power, distance, speed...what do you think the break shot is...hand eye co-ordination, speed, power, accuracy, distance, hit, feel, smooth, swing. WOW-same as pool break shot. Yet golfers are always excited to find that new driver that will do it just a little better. Why aren't we demanding a break cue that can add 2 mph...while increasing accuracy thru less deflection. Why is golf SO MUCH DIFFERENT???

Why are golfers more concerned with performance, culture and etiquette, than they are about preserving the nostalgia of their clubs? For golfers, they admire the old wooden clubs of the past, but they would rather look at them hanging on a wall than see them in their bag on tournament day.

To be clear...I love my WOODEN CUES...just can't understand how we've held out this long.

After writing this thread, I'm now convinced with some of the replies...that the world ISN'T ready for cues to evolve, and I'm convinced that we could have much, much better performing cues, but who would build them, if nobody is ready to purchase them and embrace them?
 
I think there's nothing wrong with cue evolution, even revolution, if it improves the performance of a cue. That means better materials (more or less weight, different types of shaft surface, more resistant to damage...) and advanced, more durable tips with different characteristics according to what every player likes. A future pool player should have access to a fully customizable cue in order to be able to adjust the cue characteristics to his personal preference. Things like improved transport, cheaper production (if possible) etc. would also be a great success. However, "improvements" like laser pointers and springs shouldn't be a part of cue equipment. It would be simple cheating, just the same as using drugs on an athletic meeting.

But we shouldn't be talking just about cue evolution. Tables, balls, cloth, chalk and every other piece of equipment is ready for positive changes and advancements. Time to break off from traditional and coservative ways of thinking and start building a brighter future of pool. But, just like with the cues, the changes should improve the play, not allow players to cheat and ruin the game.
 
Maniac said:
Tramp,

What price range are the MSRP's on these cues expected to be :cool:???

Maniac (may want the one that holds lunch :thumbup:)
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Unknown at this time. We're having a bit of a problem with the extendo-cue mechanism, and there seems to be some spoilage in the pack-a-lunch cue when food is left there for more than three days. I'll get back to you. :smile:
 
Beef jerky or Slim Jim's, will last for months.

Tramp Steamer said:
Unknown at this time. We're having a bit of a problem with the extendo-cue mechanism, and there seems to be some spoilage in the pack-a-lunch cue when food is left there for more than three days. I'll get back to you. :smile:
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Maybe there is already such an animal, but I'd love to have a cue with a retractable tip that when a trigger is squeezed somewhere in the butt, the tip would shoot out.

I would LOVE to play around with something like this if it were quality made. It seems that it could almost totally remove the variable of "proper delivery" and allow one to focus on their aim.

After all, mastering this game is the art of mastering a lot of different variables. If we could eliminate, or at least minimize any one of them, it may be easier to get a handle on our weaknesses.
 
8onthebreak said:
The reason we connect tennis and golf, etc to pool, is because they are direct similar sports. Let's see...in all of these sports, a person holds an instrument in their hands which they will use hand eye co-ordination to strike a ball.

In all cases, that instrument was originally made from WOOD...pool is the only sport that hasnt evolved widely into other materials.

To say that moving a chess piece around a board with your fingers, is the more comparable to pool than other SPORTS where you strike a ball, using an instrument, ....is absolutely CRAZY!!!??? The only thing they have in common, is that u need to use your brain in both. You need to use your brain for almost all activities in life, that doesn't make those activities just like pool.

As far as tennis and golf utilizing power, distance, speed...what do you think the break shot is...hand eye co-ordination, speed, power, accuracy, distance, hit, feel, smooth, swing. WOW-same as pool break shot. Yet golfers are always excited to find that new driver that will do it just a little better. Why aren't we demanding a break cue that can add 2 mph...while increasing accuracy thru less deflection. Why is golf SO MUCH DIFFERENT???

Why are golfers more concerned with performance, culture and etiquette, than they are about preserving the nostalgia of their clubs? For golfers, they admire the old wooden clubs of the past, but they would rather look at them hanging on a wall than see them in their bag on tournament day.

To be clear...I love my WOODEN CUES...just can't understand how we've held out this long.

After writing this thread, I'm now convinced with some of the replies...that the world ISN'T ready for cues to evolve, and I'm convinced that we could have much, much better performing cues, but who would build them, if nobody is ready to purchase them and embrace them?
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hi ,

i think you missunderstood me :) tennis and gold require more "power" and thats why the composite materials give here a big advantage.

pool does not need more power (if you dont play on a 24 foot table) but "only" knowledge, dexterity and adequate material. i think the biggest "evolution" came with shafts with LD properties (along with super light ferrules) and multilayered tips.

btw we already have cues with new materials; for example the basic lucasi hybrids... but they are plain ugly imho :embarrassed2:
another example would be meucci with the "power piston" cover over the forearm... often described in the forum as plastic bullshit.

so either we dont need any evolution in the building materials... or the players dont want them.

i hope my message was clearer this time. :)

edit for the breakshot: actually we dont need more speed on the breakshot, except for 8 ball most breaks are not at highspeed but look for a specific ball to be pocketed (wingball, cutbreak, 2nd row ball in the middle). more speed would only help in 8 ball.
 
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3andstop said:
Maybe there is already such an animal, but I'd love to have a cue with a retractable tip that when a trigger is squeezed somewhere in the butt, the tip would shoot out.

I would LOVE to play around with something like this if it were quality made. It seems that it could almost totally remove the variable of "proper delivery" and allow one to focus on their aim.

After all, mastering this game is the art of mastering a lot of different variables. If we could eliminate, or at least minimize any one of them, it may be easier to get a handle on our weaknesses.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and we could mount laser sights on it that automatically line up the proper contact points (delivered via remote computer), have adjustable legs on it, have C3PO (or R2D2) deliver it to the table, and then we could just de-humanize the whole game :eek:!!! :grin::grin::grin:

Maniac (the STROKE is what sets us apart)
 
Maniac said:
I always wondered what a tip made out of a hard vulcanized rubber (like the cushions on a pool table are made of) would be like on a cue. I bet you could spin hell out of 'ol whitey with one of those bad boys.

Anyone ever tried it???

Maniac
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mrshifty said:
I made a tip out of some hard rubber one time thinking the same as you. Although it did spin the ball well, it really bounced off the cue and was very unpredictable. I considered it a failure.
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Antfarm said:
DuPont made an experimental tip using the vulcanized rubber thingie. I used one for a while on a Thompson Snakewood custom and I'll say that it was different, but it was good. You could put a TON of english on a shot as the tip would grab the ball.... you could even here the snap of the rubber on aramith grab. I suppose it felt like a soft to medium hardness but it played different. Overall, I liked it and with I could get more. IT NEVER LOST ITS SHAPE or had to be scuffed up. It was supposed to last forever. Only reason I don't still use the rubber tip is because I sold the cue. Probably a dumb move but oh well!

As to the original poster.... I don't see things changing too much. Its a straight stick used to strike a ball causing it to go into the pocket. Not a while lot you can do to change how a person does that.

R,

Greg
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There's been a product on the market for several years called the "Twister Tip" and Loree Jon Jones (now Hansen) had represented it for some time. It's basically, a small slip-on rubber tip for use in crazy masse shots:

http://twistertip.com/

ljonjoneslarge.jpg

I don't think it's legal, but the idea of a rubber tip obviously works, if it's the right "type" of rubber.

-Sean
 
45 years ago I was using an aluminum cue. It was the only cue I could afford that was straight. You could keep it in the trunk of your car without damage. It did sound funny.
 
3andstop said:
Maybe there is already such an animal, but I'd love to have a cue with a retractable tip that when a trigger is squeezed somewhere in the butt, the tip would shoot out.

I would LOVE to play around with something like this if it were quality made. It seems that it could almost totally remove the variable of "proper delivery" and allow one to focus on their aim.

After all, mastering this game is the art of mastering a lot of different variables. If we could eliminate, or at least minimize any one of them, it may be easier to get a handle on our weaknesses.
Click to expand...

Ask and you shall receive:

http://www.pneupowercues.com/

9601247.jpg
 
8onthebreak said:
The reason we connect tennis and golf, etc to pool, is because they are direct similar sports. Let's see...in all of these sports, a person holds an instrument in their hands which they will use hand eye co-ordination to strike a ball.

In all cases, that instrument was originally made from WOOD...pool is the only sport that hasnt evolved widely into other materials.

To say that moving a chess piece around a board with your fingers, is the more comparable to pool than other SPORTS where you strike a ball, using an instrument, ....is absolutely CRAZY!!!??? The only thing they have in common, is that u need to use your brain in both. You need to use your brain for almost all activities in life, that doesn't make those activities just like pool.

As far as tennis and golf utilizing power, distance, speed...what do you think the break shot is...hand eye co-ordination, speed, power, accuracy, distance, hit, feel, smooth, swing. WOW-same as pool break shot. Yet golfers are always excited to find that new driver that will do it just a little better. Why aren't we demanding a break cue that can add 2 mph...while increasing accuracy thru less deflection. Why is golf SO MUCH DIFFERENT???

Why are golfers more concerned with performance, culture and etiquette, than they are about preserving the nostalgia of their clubs? For golfers, they admire the old wooden clubs of the past, but they would rather look at them hanging on a wall than see them in their bag on tournament day.

To be clear...I love my WOODEN CUES...just can't understand how we've held out this long.

After writing this thread, I'm now convinced with some of the replies...that the world ISN'T ready for cues to evolve, and I'm convinced that we could have much, much better performing cues, but who would build them, if nobody is ready to purchase them and embrace them?
Click to expand...

Sorry to disagree but pool is nothing like chess when speaking of the physical requirements. In chess you have to decide on your move and you don't even have to lift a finger as anyone can make that move exactly as you told them to without the slightest understanding of WHY you made it.

Try this exercise. Go to the YouTube video where Efren runs nine racks. Set up each rack and start from Efren's first shot after the break. Now you have Efren Reyes telling what to shoot each shot. Can you run those racks? If not why not? Is it because you don't have Efren's physical abilities? Because you don't have a cue that performs like Efren's or a combination of both?

I say it's a combination of both with some environment thrown in as well. In other words we don't yet know the performance limits of cues but we do know that cues perform differently. What "best" performance is has not yet been determined. Predator has advertised that it's about accuracy and that comes down to radial consistency and minimal deflection, i.e. the ball goes where it was aimed with the least amount of deviation as possible.

Other people might say that making cues which spin the ball more with less effort is desirable (Predator claims that their cues do this as well).

I don't know. It seems as if cues have evolved significantly into the proper shape and balance and construction for world class play. But if it's all a numbers game who is to say that a "better" cue wouldn't reduce the amount of misses in the pro game to such a degree that we see a difference in performance among the pros. That is after all the purpose of any innovation in equipment right? To enhance personal performance.
 
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