I need a name....???

[real bartram]

Freddie, if it truly is a list of well known hustlers, then "Joe Dimaggio" is his 'name'. That's what he was called forever and I never heard any other name for him. I saw him play at Beenie's place in the late 60's. Pretty strong shortstop, maybe "Philly" Joe Veasey's or Peter Rabbit's speed. What a couple of characters they were! Like I always said, it was the Golden Age of pool in this country and we got to see it. :grin:

what was joe veaseys and peter rabbits speed jay?
i know them both .
are they still alive?

 

[jay helfert]

what was joe veaseys and peter rabbits speed jay?
i know them both .
are they still alive?

Both played pretty good, good enough to not have to work. :grin:
Peter "Rabbit" Linhard wrote a very cool book called "How To Get By Without Working." It was funny as Hel! Both of these guys were real characters, firing off one funny line after another. I would call them both solid shortstops, maybe a notch under your speed. You might have had trouble with either one at One Pocket though for forty or fifty a game. That was a good bet in their heyday. I think Joe was the better 9-Ball player. It took a strong player to beat him. He played under Larry Lisciotti (a very good player and damn good gambler. Larry had a ton of heart, kind of like you). Joe was close to Mike Massey's speed back then. Let's see what Freddie has to say.

Peter Rabbit died several years ago. Last I heard Joe was a pit boss in Atlantic City. He'd be in his 70's now. Peter was a gambler, he HAD to be in action every day. Joe was a little smarter, always looking for a good game where he had the best of it. :wink:

 

[real bartram]

Both played pretty good, good enough to not have to work. :grin:
Peter "Rabbit" Linhard wrote a very cool book called "How To Get By Without Working." It was funny as Hel! Both of these guys were real characters, firing off one funny line after another. I would call them both solid shortstops, maybe a notch under your speed. You might have had trouble with either one at One Pocket though for forty or fifty a game. That was a good bet in their heyday. I think Joe was the better 9-Ball player. It took a strong player to beat him. He played under Larry Lisciotti (a very good player and damn good gambler. Larry had a ton of heart, kind of like you). Joe was close to Mike Massey's speed back then. Let's see what Freddie has to say.

Peter Rabbit died several years ago. Last I heard Joe was a pit boss in Atlantic City. He'd be in his 70's now. Peter was a gambler, he HAD to be in action every day. Joe was a little smarter, always looking for a good game where he had the best of it. :wink:

damn sorry that rabbit is gone.
good story abiut him.
me and my friend go to philly about 15 years ago
noone knows mr there.
so im going to blow 500 or so to rabbit at 100 a game.
well after 4 games or so we are even and he pulls up lol
so he thinks im some player now.
he takes me and my friend to a spot about an hour away
well we get on the highway
he is driving so slow we start messing with him about it
he is going like 40 everyone else is going 70 or so.
he looks back at us then goes about 90 and says
is this fast enough for you guys?
it was scary cause he prolly never went over 40.

he was a funny guy for sure.
rip rabbit

 

[sixpack]

His name was Chuckie Warman and he was just as tough as you heard. He was a certified bar wrecker but he was not a good pool player. He spent time around pool players but I stayed the hell away from him. Only a dunce would gamble with him. He did have that bar on Clark and it was a big rocking bar. One time he threw everybody out, locked the door and beat up the whole band. He was rated as one of the toughest guys in the city of Chicago.

Beard

The only Bear players that I might bet on against him were Mike Ditka and Doug Adkins. I say might.

Thanks Freddy. I think Doug might have been the guy he fought on the bus. I'll ask my dad. He said he was known for being the toughest Bear player at the time.

Btw - I've always appreciated your stories and what you've contributed to the world of pool.

~rc

 

[freddy the beard]

Freddy, Ronnie Schmuck said Joe's real name was Vincent Petrocelli. He died in Ronnies Poolroom. In The Saddle.

It does kinda ring a bell now. Maybe I'm just hallucinating. I'll check with Jimmy Fusco again, maybe it will ring his bell too. Thanks a lot.

Beard

 

[freddy the beard]

Freddy,

Anything on Buddy Dennis in your book ? ( I did not know, but do now that he was always in the columbia area off and on. Just last week I played a guy some one hole, named Bubba( black guy) in his late 60's. Buddy's name came up and he told me that when effren came through columbia, He played buddy some one hole and buddy had him backing up the whole time. "Man was he a demon" at one hole quote from black Bubba.

Also, Buddy hasn't been in a pool room in 8 months due to taking care of his wife.

I know Buddy. I played Buddy. He certainly deserves a mention. He was a real road hustler and a very good One-pocket player.

Beard

I'll try and fit him in.

 

[freddy the beard]

I see Toby Sweet practically every day. If you think he would know, I can ask him.

I am going to go with fasteddief's solution. Petrocelli.
Thanks anyway.

Beard

 

[freddy the beard]

Thanks Freddy. I think Doug might have been the guy he fought on the bus. I'll ask my dad. He said he was known for being the toughest Bear player at the time.

Btw - I've always appreciated your stories and what you've contributed to the world of pool.

~rc

Doug Adkins was 6'8" and weighed 280 lbs with arms down to the ground and he carried a .45 automatic, and was maybe the meanest Bear of all time.
That would have been a hell of a brawl.

Beard

 

[freddy the beard]

Both played pretty good, good enough to not have to work. :grin:
Peter "Rabbit" Linhard wrote a very cool book called "How To Get By Without Working." It was funny as Hel! Both of these guys were real characters, firing off one funny line after another. I would call them both solid shortstops, maybe a notch under your speed. You might have had trouble with either one at One Pocket though for forty or fifty a game. That was a good bet in their heyday. I think Joe was the better 9-Ball player. It took a strong player to beat him. He played under Larry Lisciotti (a very good player and damn good gambler. Larry had a ton of heart, kind of like you). Joe was close to Mike Massey's speed back then. Let's see what Freddie has to say.

Peter Rabbit died several years ago. Last I heard Joe was a pit boss in Atlantic City. He'd be in his 70's now. Peter was a gambler, he HAD to be in action every day. Joe was a little smarter, always looking for a good game where he had the best of it. :wink:

I was around Veasey a little, but we never played. The Rabbit beat Fats at the Congress Bowl out of about $600 playing even. Fats was still playing good then. The next day Fats came back to play some more. Peter was now betting his own, lost 2 in a row and was busted. I would rate Peter as a top short-stop -- but only with a backer.

Beard

 

[david(tx)]

Fred,

A cool Wendell story was when the Feds were busting everybody in Johnson City that year and people were climbing out of the bathroom window, Wendell never broke for the door. He was released and not charged because he had a record book showing wins and loses that made it look like he was barely breaking even.

He also filed taxes every year showing he was a loser. He is a genius. As you and I know Wilber did not lose too often and when he did most of the time it was on purpose. When he played people 125 no count and gambled, it was truly amazing to watch him play safe at 90 balls and then win from there. He was a hard guy to wear down and could go the long haul.

Those guys who played him never understood that Wendell was the master of making people back scratch. When he did play safe all you ever had was a wing shot because he would play position to snooker you in the worst position on the table snookered from the whole table by one object ball. Can you say defensive player? Frank Taberski was Wendell's hero.

I also loved to watch him hustle 3 cushion players for money. 3C players hate to use a bridge. Wendell would play them safe and put their ball in a position whereby they had to use a bridge for a low percentage shot. The opponents would get so frustrated the he owned them and he would act like he was still trying to figure out how to play billiards. He would create angles using top spin to the rail to make a billiard and they would never really figure out that he was not just lucky. A true hustler through and through but an honest man who never cheated.

When Joey and him would go on the road, Joey would play the role as the hot fancy player who would play to the crowd and Wendell would be the backer or the money man. After many hours of breaking even with a money player, Joey would start getting behind and Wendell and him would get into an argument and Wendell would finally say, let's get out of here kid, you just don't have it today, shit even I could beat this guy.

Now the people have already clocked Wendell as the money man and were smelling the cash. Next question was, hey old man do you want to play some. Wendell would say, I am bored with this 200.00 shit, if you want to play get your little piggy banks together and let play for some real money like $ 4000.00 a set and we will see if you have a pump or are just a short stop. Wendell would then step in rested and play a guy that had been gambling for 4 hours, it was beautiful. Next thing you know he is getting a spot and when he beat them they thought he was getting lucky. Wendell used to practice miscueing and playing safe and he could drink Seagrams Vo while he played and he would actually stagger and trip over his own feet while he was walking around the table. It was better than the movies, in real life.

When Wendell would bust someone for all of his money as he did as a habit, he would always give the guy his last barrel back for groceries. Even after he busted him for all the money, when they left, they did not hate him and always thought they could beat them the next time they played. When Wilber got someone's nose open it was like going to the bank.

I remember he would meet Top tier straight pool player at the Corner Pocket on Milwaukee Ave every Friday night after he got got his pay check. Wendell tortured him for months and beat him like a pulp until finally it caused a divorce. This guy was capable of running 100 balls and got so obsessed on the thought of beating Wendell that he lost track of reality. Wendell made sure he always went home with groceries money. The only problem was Wendell had the rent money.

When Efren and Rudy first came to this country they were stalled at the Cafe for 6 months before they got their visas and went on the road. Frank had that 1000.00 nine ball tournament once a month on Sunday. Wendell had quit playing pool for years and had been working with me and I know he had not touched a pool cue. He did not even own one. A friend of ours, Jim Allen called Wendell and said that he had posted an Entry fee for Wendell to play because he want to see Wendell to play Efren.

Wendell said he was going to pass and did not want to play. Him and I were leaving Sunday night to go to Quad Cities for a job starting Monday morning. I called him and told him to pack his bag and I would pick him up early that morning. I called Mike Valentino and arranged him to meet us at the Cafe with his Kershenbroch cue. When I got Wendell in the truck I told him I was hijacking him to the cafe for the tournament and we were going to Quad Cities from there. He was pissed but agreed.

Efren had won the 1000.00 every month for 5 months and had never been placed in the losers bracket. As luck would have it Wendell and Efren were matched in the 1st round. Wendell really did not want to play and he only got a heartbeat because of all of the players were there and he was like the polar bear at the zoo. Wendell beat Efren and put him into the loser's side.

After the match he was having a cigarette and having a coffee with John the Greek and was surrounded by all the top guys in Chicago at the time and the question they were asking was how did you beat Efren? Wendell's answer was, " I heard that this fella Efren was real good at kicking and banking so when I played him safe I made sure that any kick or banks were tough and off the short rail. Even though Wendell had not played the game in years he knew how to clock the best player in the world and beat him by using his brain. He knew on an open table in 9 ball he could play as good as anyone. To beat Efren he had to take away his strength with the kicks and the banks. Wendell had no desire to stay all day and after knocking The Magician into the loser bracket he lost to John Wright in the next match. Boy was John Wright on cloud nine and Wendell shook his hand and said, John you played real good. Then we left.

The funny thing was that everyone who was there never believed that Wendell had quit pool cold turkey and was not in stroke or was not playing somewhere else. He had grinded it out with the Magician and beat him at his own game.

Rick

Enjoyed your story , and the example of understanding all aspects of the game , i don't , but thats why they have the rail.:smile:

 

[jrhendy]

Different Sterling apparently. Sterling Ward was in LA in the 70s after leaving Chicago. Ask Jay Helfert about him. He was a convicted pedophile.

Beard

In California we all knew Sterling as Buttermilk. A good guy to stay away from.

He steered plenty of good players through Southern CA in the 60's/70's. He stole Grady's cue once when they were on the road together. Grady did not say or do anything. He said he wanted to stay alive.

 

[jrhendy]

Buttermilk

Different Sterling apparently. Sterling Ward was in LA in the 70s after leaving Chicago. Ask Jay Helfert about him. He was a convicted pedophile.

Beard

In California we all knew Sterling as Buttermilk. A good guy to stay away from.

He steered plenty of good players through Southern CA in the 60's/70's. He stole Grady's cue once when they were on the road together. Grady did not say or do anything. He said he wanted to stay alive.

 

[jay helfert]

I was around Veasey a little, but we never played. The Rabbit beat Fats at the Congress Bowl out of about $600 playing even. Fats was still playing good then. The next day Fats came back to play some more. Peter was now betting his own, lost 2 in a row and was busted. I would rate Peter as a top short-stop -- but only with a backer.

Beard

I'm kind of jealous, you spent a lot of time around the Congress Bowl. I was only in there for two days and after Pancho set me up I never went back. :sorry:

I also spent very little time at the Cotton Bowl in Dallas. One day there and all I saw was hustlers and strong players, just not for me. I was looking mainly for soft action at the time. I did hang in LeCue for a while, cause the side betting was good there and I could make money never picking up my cue. I did get a couple of games in LeCue and won a few bucks, but they were just guys sweating the action like me. :wink:

But I did spend considerable time in 7/11 and Guys and Dolls in NYC. Two of the greatest action rooms of all time. And LOTS of soft action at Guys & Dolls! Actors, musicians, and Wall Street whiz kids. SWEET!

 

[jay helfert]

In California we all knew Sterling as Buttermilk. A good guy to stay away from.

He steered plenty of good players through Southern CA in the 60's/70's. He stole Grady's cue once when they were on the road together. Grady did not say or do anything. He said he wanted to stay alive.

Buttermilk was kind of a burly and surly guy. If he could make money with you he liked you. One time I had a good game and 'Milk was betting five a game on the side. He must have won thirty bucks or so. After that I was high on his list and he actually said hello whenever he saw me. I knew better than to cross him. Somehow even then I knew he was dangerous. Like you I pretty much preferred to avoid him.

 

[freddy the beard]

In California we all knew Sterling as Buttermilk. A good guy to stay away from.

He steered plenty of good players through Southern CA in the 60's/70's. He stole Grady's cue once when they were on the road together. Grady did not say or do anything. He said he wanted to stay alive.

Short excerpt from Da book:

Buttermilk's real name was Sterling Ward. He spent a lot of time around Chicago hustling the bars before he went to California. He was a great lemon hustler, often taking days to prime up a working man’s bar before taking it off. His Chicago hustling partner was Eight-Ball Freddy Parkhill, a decent player in his own right.
Buttermilk made the mistake of taking off a bar in my Bridgeport neighborhood. Even I never tried that. They lemoned up the joint all week, and then took off the money Friday, payday night. They had gotten out the door with the money and they might have even escaped clean, except Sterling left his cigarettes in the joint and they went back in to get them. Sterling’s legendary cheapness caught up with him. That move cost Freddy and Sterling all of the money, and two good beatings.
Sterling was a low-life, red-neck slob. In a restaurant, he would drink all the cream at everyone's table, and steal as many tips as he could on the way out. But his worst suit was that he was a real-deal pedophile. He would go to Mexico and marry a 13 or 14 year old, and then get rid of her when she left her teens; then go back and get another one. That was bad enough, but he got caught molesting his best friend's little girls. They were like 8 and 9. His friend was Bill Gibbs, another country boy hustler who had come to LA with Sterling from Chicago.
Bill would probably have killed Sterling if he could have gotten to him, but he had already been arrested and out of Bill's range. Sterling did time for his deed, and I don’t know what happened to him after that.

Beard

 

[George Fels]

Buttermilk

I thought the guy was a real jerk. But he WAS the last player I ever saw take on the legendary Angus MacDonald, right after Bensinger's moved to the north side. They played for $10, which was a decent bet back in the '60s, and as far as I could tell broke about even. I never saw MacDonald again. GF

 

[Ken_4fun]

make sure you spell his name right: Michael "geese" (nickname "geese" is with an "s" and not a "c") gerace.

Here's a little color, and you can use it, i hope.

Geese grew up in bladensburg, maryland, at the golden cue. This used to be an action stop for road players. George pappageorge showed geese the basics of shooting pool when he was just a youngster, which basically was stroking one, two, three times before release and making contact with the cue-ball.

Some of the regulars who would frequent this pool room at the time were
strawberry, bus driver ronnie, tom-tom wirth, korean lee, left-handed ronnie,quick vic, bobby hawk, scotty and freddie boggs, and cigar tom hanover. Jack cooney's old lady was shot in this pool room when she refused to give a robber the stake money. She survied.

How did he get the name "geese"? One day somebody was writing the names of tournament players on a chart and left out the "a" in his last name "gerace" and wrote "geace." the name "geese" stuck ever since.

Geese's claim to fame in the history books was that he came third at the young age of 19 in a johnson city tournament which had a very strong player roster. Instead of embarking on the tournament trail with his god-given talent, geese enjoyed being on the road and traveled all over the country, which was very popular during the late '70s and early '80s in the united states.

Geese was italian. His father was a self-made man and made the best meatballs and tomato sauce i've ever had in my life, even to this day. He was the youngest of two boys. His mother loved geese with all her heart and looked out for him always, even in his darkest hour, as a mother would. She did not have an easy life. Geese and his father both did have that italian temper at times.

He lived in california for a while and hooked up with a side-armed pool player and competed with the best in california during this era: Cole dixon, billy incardona, larry liscotti, little al, wade crane, richie florence, and ronnie allen. I don't know how geese picked up his one-handed game, but he could draw his rock one-handed without the cue stick ever touching the table.

Geese was known as a strong one-pocket player. I've had the pleasure of seeing him in action and compete in a few tournaments. He devoted his life to playing pool, and his parents supported him in this endeavor. Yep, geese was a road agent in every sense of the word.

Whenever he would walk into a pool room, the whole place would light up. His very presence would bring smiles and laughter in the crowd because they knew if geese was going to play, it was going to be a good time for all. He was a born entertainer and enjoyed a huge following.

During one of his road trips in the south, louisiana i believe, he was battling it out with a local for some big bucks in a pool room that was held up by some unscrupulous bandits. They made everybody in the pool room strip down naked and robbed the place. Geese was beaten up very badly, so bad that his older brother had to fly down to louisiana to bring his younger brother back home to stay in a hospital for a spell. Geese never recovered from this beating and was haunted by it and required medical assistance for the rest of his life. He went through shock treatments in an effort to get better, but this experience haunted him. He was diagnosed with schizophrenia.

Geese, who hailed from maryland, moved to the tampa, florida, with his mother after his dad passed away. Having no "friends" in this area, his life consisted of going to the dog track and playing in a couple of local tourneys from time to time. He called maryland, local pool rooms and a few friends including me, just about every day to keep up with the
happenings. He missed home, which for him was maryland.

When geese would beat a guy out of his dust, he would always give the defeated pool player a 10-percent bone of his winnings. His reasoning is: "you never want to leave a pool player busted or broke." that's the kind of guy he was.

When he was diagnosed with cancer, he retreated into a pit of despair. He was only 54 when he passed. He was a heavy smoker, and his cigarette of choice when i knew him was lucky strikes without the filters.
I write this post as a tribute to my friend, geese, a great pool player who devoted his life to playing pool. His contributions to the sport may be miniscule some may say, but he will always be a shining star to all who know him.

Geese in the upper right-hand corner with the blond. :smile:

who is the hot looking blonde?

 

[ribdoner]

Short excerpt from Da book:

Buttermilk's real name was Sterling Ward. He spent a lot of time around Chicago hustling the bars before he went to California. He was a great lemon hustler, often taking days to prime up a working man’s bar before taking it off. His Chicago hustling partner was Eight-Ball Freddy Parkhill, a decent player in his own right.
Buttermilk made the mistake of taking off a bar in my Bridgeport neighborhood. Even I never tried that. They lemoned up the joint all week, and then took off the money Friday, payday night. They had gotten out the door with the money and they might have even escaped clean, except Sterling left his cigarettes in the joint and they went back in to get them. Sterling’s legendary cheapness caught up with him. That move cost Freddy and Sterling all of the money, and two good beatings.
Sterling was a low-life, red-neck slob. In a restaurant, he would drink all the cream at everyone's table, and steal as many tips as he could on the way out. But his worst suit was that he was a real-deal pedophile. He would go to Mexico and marry a 13 or 14 year old, and then get rid of her when she left her teens; then go back and get another one. That was bad enough, but he got caught molesting his best friend's little girls. They were like 8 and 9. His friend was Bill Gibbs, another country boy hustler who had come to LA with Sterling from Chicago.
Bill would probably have killed Sterling if he could have gotten to him, but he had already been arrested and out of Bill's range. Sterling did time for his deed, and I don’t know what happened to him after that.

Beard

Was sterling/buttermilk left handed?

 

[richiebalto]

Freddy, Ronnie Schmuck said Joe's real name was Vincent Petrocelli. He died in Ronnies Poolroom. In The Saddle.

Smuck and i talked about Damaggio this past summer down in the pool room, Smuck was real good friends with the man, btw Smuck was telling me how Mosconi would not mess with Damaggio playing one pocket and let me tell you Smuck has a memory like an elephant if he says his real name is Petrocelli well thats what it was!

 

[richiebalto]

Fred, heres a pool player i would think you crossed paths with, Pittsburgh Mike Katsaris he was actullay from Washington pa,in the 80s Mike won the world series of tavern pool in Vegas for a whopping 25000, then he stay there in vegas and became a card dealer for some time, i believe Mikes best game was on the bar box with the big ball and also played big table banks up there near you i was told!