U.S. Open Checks Bounced???

[mikeyfrost]

Fire all the shots you want, but IMO, Barry and Shannon worked their ass off, put THEIR money on the line, and STILL brought us world class pool. They admitted to the venue being short of the mark. They owned it. They try.

With all due respect, that's not good enough. I think you know that. A best effort is totally irrelevant. If you can't do what you say, then you shouldn't say anything at all. I think he should take a year or so off and figure out how to make it feasible, otherwise, forget the event.

This is a huge black eye to a sport that really doesn't need another one. This is the time to walk away from Barry, he's had too many chances and continually dogs it. This is not the time to rally behind him, it only enables him and because he has the gold he pulls peoples strings.

Screw the US Open.

 

[jimmy-leggs]

With all due respect, that's not good enough. I think you know that. A best effort is totally irrelevant. If you can't do what you say, then you shouldn't say anything at all. I think he should take a year or so off and figure out how to make it feasible, otherwise, forget the event.

This is a huge black eye to a sport that really doesn't need another one. This is the time to walk away from Barry, he's had too many chances and continually dogs it. This is not the time to rally behind him, it only enables him and because he has the gold he pulls peoples strings.

Screw the US Open.

Well said.

 

[Soulweb]

Nobody said they didn't' try or bust their ass, just that they didn't do it right. There is a difference. Just because you try really hard doesn't mean anything that goes wrong is acceptable. If your go out to eat and the food isnt cooked all the way do you just accept it and eat it simply because the kitchen "tried really hard" and "busted their ass"? If your paycheck bounces after you put a full weeks worth of work in, do you just smile and accept it because you know the employer "tried really hard" and "buster their ass" to get you paid?

I sure hope not. Excuses are reasons why things go wrong...they don't actually excuse the problems do they?

 

[Soulweb]

Also, putting their money on the line is irrelevant. They did it thinking they would make money. It wasn't some noble act of philanthropy. They did it thinking they might make a buck. They also used everyone else's money. Shane's, Efrens, mine....it wasn't just their money.

 

[cuedoctor]

Fire all the shots you want, but IMO, Barry and Shannon worked their ass off, put THEIR money on the line, and STILL brought us world class pool. They admitted to the venue being short of the mark. They owned it. They try.

I have supported Barry in a lot of threads over the years but after this years experience if this is the best he could do then its the last time I will ever throw my money away again. Sorry Barry but if you didn't realize there was numerous problems with this venue then you don't belong in the pool promoting business. I have went 15 years in a row and this was about as bad as it gets and not paying the top 6 players is just terrible. This thread needs to be bumped up next september so people can remember this. I alone dumped 500 -600 bucks between gas ,hotel,food to go there and obviously you could give a rats ass about the fans. Please...Somebody buy quemasters and send him packing!

 

[Mark Griffin]

US Open checks bounced

Koolkat9lives,

I have intentionally refrained from posting on this matter. BUT your comments are just nonsense.

We all know they tried to their best ability. As they did in previous years.
Sorry - that does not get it.

We all agree that world class pool was displayed. But the players must be paid! How can you justify anything else?

Until the players are paid, this event was an embarrassment to the whole pool industry. I really wish the Behrman's the best in paying off everyone, but the model is flawed.

Several suggested I get involved with this event. Thanks, but no thanks. I am quite certain that Barry and I would have several disagreements on how things should be run.

I do run several 'pro' events - and I see no way this event can survive in its present form. Sad but true!

Can the event continue? Anything is possible but I don't have the time, energy, or inclination to do this kind of event with the constraints already in place.

Time will tell to see how this shakes out. I am watching, as are many fans of pool.

Mark Griffin

Fire all the shots you want, but IMO, Barry and Shannon worked their ass off, put THEIR money on the line, and STILL brought us world class pool. They admitted to the venue being short of the mark. They owned it. They try.

 

[ironman]

Koolkat9lives,

I have intentionally refrained from posting on this matter. BUT your comments are just nonsense.

We all know they tried to their best ability. As they did in previous years.
Sorry - that does not get it.

We all agree that world class pool was displayed. But the players must be paid! How can you justify anything else?

Until the players are paid, this event was an embarrassment to the whole pool industry. I really wish the Behrman's the best in paying off everyone, but the model is flawed.

Several suggested I get involved with this event. Thanks, but no thanks. I am quite certain that Barry and I would have several disagreements on how things should be run.

I do run several 'pro' events - and I see no way this event can survive in its present form. Sad but true!

Can the event continue? Anything is possible but I don't have the time, energy, or inclination to do this kind of event with the constraints already in place.

Time will tell to see how this shakes out. I am watching, as are many fans of pool.

Mark Griffin

i don't mean this to sound chicken shit, but sin't it true you already own teh name to the US Open?
Why not just put a stop to it and begin your own? The entire pool world would be behind it!!
If what I heard is true and you do won it,,,well,,, just asking the obvious!

 

[Mark Griffin]

Us open

Hi Lewis,

I dont own the name 'US Open 9 ball'.
I do have the us open 10-ball, one pocket, straight pool, banks, and 8- ball.
Three of these will be used with the BCAPL nationals in July in Vegas in 2013.

There is a LOT of history to the 9-ball. (btw, our nationals are only one year younger than the us open 9-ball). 2013 is the 37th annual!

I would love to have the opportunity to make it grow, but in its present form, it is probably doomed.

Markg

 

[Teddydog]

Why so surprised?..

I know this will be a wildly unpopular response, but this kinda stuff always reminds me of Hymen Roth's famous line in The Godfather part II...

"This is the life we have chosen!"..

I mean really, you're living in the realm of the pool player, and as such you should know there's always a chance of getting aired.. My suggestion?.. Get a real job..

 

[JAM]

I know this will be a wildly unpopular response, but this kinda stuff always reminds me of Hymen Roth's famous line in The Godfather part II...

"This is the life we have chosen!"..

I mean really, you're living in the realm of the pool player, and as such you should know there's always a chance of getting aired.. My suggestion?.. Get a real job..

My suggestion? It's people like you who keep professional pool in the mud. Pros get no respect, but when they go to events, those who ridicule them, claiming they need a job and are no-good bums, are usually at the head of the line requesting FREE photo ops and FREE autographs.

 

[JAM]

Fire all the shots you want, but IMO, Barry and Shannon worked their ass off, put THEIR money on the line, and STILL brought us world class pool. They admitted to the venue being short of the mark. They owned it. They try.

I'm torn about this and have conflicted feelings on this topic. It is amazing to me that those who are usually the loudest on this forum about TDs and pool promoters not paying seem to be mum on this thread. I am reminded of the pool promoter in Arizona that did not pay the players. MG covered the costs, but this man was raked through the forum coals for his lapse in judgment on how expensive a pool tournament really is. His intentions were good, but in the end, he couldn't come with the money.

His biggest "business mistake," if I may call it that, was that he was basing the payouts of the tournament "on the come," meaning the gate, vendors, entry fees, et cetera.

This is the same business platform, I fear, that Barry Behrman, et al., have used for years.

Look, I love Barry and can't say enough good things about him. I consider him a friend. I know his heart is in the right place, but like that guy in Arizona, his current business platform is flawed. In order to keep the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship alive, Barry, et al., must come with a new business strategy for the future.

I know the expenses that go into the Open. It's a huge nut with the staff, gate man, TDs, rentals, signs, administrative staff, payouts, and then there's the hope for a profit.

Personally, at least for the players I know, the dream of having that title is worth more than the tea in China. Players from around the world gather in Virginia each year hoping to snatch that to put on their pool portfolio. Tin cups and money are fine, but it's that title that is more meaningful, IMHO.

In this regard, I think the only solution may be to cut the payouts, maybe in half. I believe the players would still come for the chance to be the U.S. Open 9-Ball Champion. The money is nice, but that title is worth more.

 

[edd]

I'm torn about this and have conflicted feelings on this topic. It is amazing to me that those who are usually the loudest on this forum about TDs and pool promoters not paying seem to be mum on this thread. I am reminded of the pool promoter in Arizona that did not pay the players. MG covered the costs, but this man was raked through the forum coals for his lapse in judgment on how expensive a pool tournament really is. His intentions were good, but in the end, he couldn't come with the money.

His biggest "business mistake," if I may call it that, was that he was basing the payouts of the tournament "on the come," meaning the gate, vendors, entry fees, et cetera.

This is the same business platform, I fear, that Barry Behrman, et al., have used for years.

Look, I love Barry and can't say enough good things about him. I consider him a friend. I know his heart is in the right place, but like that guy in Arizona, his current business platform is flawed. In order to keep the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship alive, Barry, et al., must come with a new business strategy for the future.

I know the expenses that go into the Open. It's a huge nut with the staff, gate man, TDs, rentals, signs, administrative staff, payouts, and then there's the hope for a profit.

Personally, at least for the players I know, the dream of having that title is worth more than the tea in China. Players from around the world gather in Virginia each year hoping to snatch that to put on their pool portfolio. Tin cups and money are fine, but it's that title that is more meaningful, IMHO.

In this regard, I think the only solution may be to cut the payouts, maybe in half. I believe the players would still come for the chance to be the U.S. Open 9-Ball Champion. The money is nice, but that title is worth more.

Yes! As I and others, in another thread, noted lower the payout. Don't promise added money that can't be produced. Place the entry fees in escrow and add a reasonable percentage of the gate. Even if fewer players attend, at least players will get paid on time. Once the tournament can show solvency, the likelihood of increased sponsorship may follow.

 

[JAM]

Yes! As I and others, in another thread, noted lower the payout. Don't promise added money that can't be produced. Place the entry fees in escrow and add a reasonable percentage of the gate. Even if fewer players attend, at least players will get paid on time. Once the tournament can show solvency, the likelihood of increased sponsorship will likely follow.

Exactly right.

Look, most tournaments, tin cups don't mean squat. It's more like "Show me the Cheese." :grin:

However, this tournament is an iconic event in the history of American pool. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing it excluded to American-only players, but I realize I hold a minority view on this. I'm sickened by American pool purists continuing to denigrate the skills of American pro players while they promote the international emotionless robots that don't do a damn thing for the American pool survival. They should just move abroad and support them, yet those international emotionless robots seem to like to live in the U.S. Go figure! But that's a topic for another thread. :embarrassed2:

I believe the pro players, even the international emotional robots the American pool purists praise ad nauseum, value the title of "U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship," wearing that green jacket, much more so than what the tournament pays. Some things, money can't buy, and that championship title is one of them.

 

[branpureza]

Exactly right.
Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing it excluded to American-only players...

Terrible idea.

They should just move abroad and support them, yet those international emotionless robots seem to like to live in the U.S.

Being fixated on where someone is from and/or lives is a little ridiculous in my opinion.


The U.S. Open and tournaments alike need participation from pool players around the globe. Why would you limit a tournament to only U.S. players when it already has problems filling up in the first place? My favorite part about the Open has always been seeing and competing against players from other countries.

Maybe I'm just crazy but I don't understand how or why we are even discussing nationality in this thread. So what if foreign players don't wear their emotions on their sleeve. I just want to see the best pool being played. They could come from Mars for all I care.

 

[JAM]

Terrible idea.




Being fixated on where someone is from and/or lives is a little ridiculous in my opinion.


The U.S. Open and tournaments alike need participation from pool players around the globe. Why would you limit a tournament to only U.S. players when it already has problems filling up in the first place? My favorite part about the Open has always been seeing and competing against players from other countries.

Maybe I'm just crazy but I don't understand how or why we are even discussing nationality in this thread. So what if foreign players don't wear their emotions on their sleeve. I just want to see the best pool being played. They could come from Mars for all I care.

It's because I'm sick and tired of seeing American players beat down by pool purists who praise non-American players, stating Americans suck.

Don't get me wrong, please. Some of my favorite players to watch are Filipino legends like Alex, Santos, Bustie, but I think it would be nice to have an American tournament limited to American players.

I'm not going to hijack the thread on nationality issues. You're definitely entitled to your thoughts, as am I. When I read "U.S. Open," I just have vision of United States competitors, not those from overseas. It's just my opinion, one which I know I'm in the minority.

The American pool culture as a whole has no respect for American players. Pool is cruel to its own.

 

[branpureza]

It's because I'm sick and tired of seeing American players beat down by pool purists who praise non-American players, stating Americans suck.

Don't get me wrong, please. Some of my favorite players to watch are Filipino legends like Alex, Santos, Bustie, but I think it would be nice to have an American tournament limited to American players.

I'm not going to hijack the thread on nationality issues. You're definitely entitled to your thoughts, as am I. When I read "U.S. Open," I just have vision of United States competitors, not those from overseas. It's just my opinion, one which I know I'm in the minority.

The American pool culture as a whole has no respect for American players. Pool is cruel to its own.

I get that, but to be honest you can't blame it all on the fans.

Look at some of our players... a lot of them don't even respect themselves.

I don't think people begrudge American players because they're American, I think they do so despite them being American.

Take Shane Van Boening for instance, everyone loves the guy... but it's not because of where he's from, it's because they see how he carries himself. He's a champion in every sense of the word. Humble in defeat and gratious in victory... you don't see him talking shit, making excuses, walking around drunk and cursing.... he's always well dressed with a smile on his face and looks and acts like a professional.

Anyway... back to the topic at hand I guess.

 

[Teddydog]

My suggestion? It's people like you who keep professional pool in the mud. Pros get no respect, but when they go to events, those who ridicule them, claiming they need a job and are no-good bums, are usually at the head of the line requesting FREE photo ops and FREE autographs.

LOL.. Actually, my brother is, or was a top pro.. 2 time US Open winner.. My point is, through my experience there's no financial future in pool.. You can gain notoriety, fame, and even travel the world, so I'm certainly not panning the lifestyle, completely, but nearly all of these guys end up broke, with no way of earning income by the time they're 55.. No job experience, no way to make a living, save for living off their reputation, and the good graces of others..

That's my point, you shouldn't be surprised, and if you wanted stability, then a real job is the way to go..

 

[JAM]

Take Shane Van Boening for instance, everyone loves the guy... but it's not because of where he's from, it's because they see how he carries himself. He's a champion in every sense of the word. Humble in defeat and gratious in victory... you don't see him talking shit, making excuses, walking around drunk and cursing.... he's always well dressed with a smile on his face and looks and acts like a professional.

You just captured what's wrong with American pool today. There is, indeed, a conflict.

Many prefer the humble demeanor of a young pro like Shane, who I have the greatest respect for.

There's another school of thought that prefers to see the woofing, the barkfest, the action festivities, which -- I hate to say it -- includes "talking shit, making excuses, walking around drunk, and cursing."

I'm not saying the players should act like that at the Open. No way! But there are many out there who prefer action pool more so than pool purist pool. There is a definite divide here.

Even at the Open, there are many people who like the action, to include the woofing, talking shit, walking around drunk, and cursing, that goes on during the entire week. They love the tournament, but they also like that action atmosphere.

I wonder why Barry couldn't have the Open at Q-Masters, now that I think about it. It sure would save money. He would have to close down that room with the bar boxes maybe and install Diamonds for that week. I think that would be cool. But I'm not a pool promoter, so the logistics of it might not work!

 

[JAM]

LOL.. Actually, my brother is, or was a top pro.. 2 time US Open winner.. My point is, through my experience there's no financial future in pool.. You can gain notoriety, fame, and even travel the world, so I'm certainly not panning the lifestyle, completely, but nearly all of these guys end up broke, with no way of earning income by the time they're 55.. No job experience, no way to make a living, save for living off their reputation, and the good graces of others..

That's my point, you shouldn't be surprised, and if you wanted stability, then a real job is the way to go..

So, it begs the question: Who's your brother?

Hmm, two-time Open winner. Who could that be? Inquiring minds gotta know.

 

[JAM]

LOL.. Actually, my brother is, or was a top pro.. 2 time US Open winner.. My point is, through my experience there's no financial future in pool.. You can gain notoriety, fame, and even travel the world, so I'm certainly not panning the lifestyle, completely, but nearly all of these guys end up broke, with no way of earning income by the time they're 55.. No job experience, no way to make a living, save for living off their reputation, and the good graces of others..

That's my point, you shouldn't be surprised, and if you wanted stability, then a real job is the way to go..

Is your brother Mika, Buddy, Dave Howard, Nick Varner, or Allen Hopkins?