U.S. Open Checks Bounced???

[SpiderWebComm]

Events that Kevin did pay out are much larger than winning the US Open three times.

The World 8-ball event, King of the Hill, IPT North American Open, and IPT World Open (though payments were delayed).

Some players were paid just to show up. When you think big, that is where the money is. The problem with pool organizers are they think small.

I agree in that the IPT events were the best production in the history of pool. It was really PGA-like. Top of everything.

It's not realistic to do what Kevin did, production-wise. There's no return for your investment. It's not a thinking big problem, I think. If the market were there, it's healthy to think big. However, to think BIG in a nearly non-existent market is like going to a roulette table and repeatedly betting a million dollars on a number.

 

[JB Cases]

How do you launder money through a non cash business-hell a non income business practically?

Well one way would be to set up your own subcontractors that you pay. So Kevin wants to launder say 10 million from Natural Cures through the IPT. Well easy, Natural Cures loans the IPT 10 million or invests in it. The IPT set up as a legal entity then pays out money to the "contractors", $200,000 for catering, $300,000 for lighting and so on. 3 million for website creation paid to the Cayman Ilsands Web Development company.....

That would be one way if you could make the contractors not traceable back to you.

Here in China we call these operations tea houses. Somehow a lot of very expensive tea moves through these places and the cash goes right in the bank clean washed in tea.

 

[Scott Lee]

Dave...Actually you can successfully beat the roulette wheel. All you have to do is have enough millions to keep doubling up every time you lose! Sooner or later you'll win (might take a 100 mil or two...but hey, it's only money! LOL).

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

However, to think BIG in a nearly non-existent market is like going to a roulette table and repeatedly betting a million dollars on a number.

 

[Jaden]

actually it's fairly simple...

How do you launder money through a non cash business-hell a non income business practically?

You create non existant foreign advertisers that pay for advertisement of companies that don't exist, but I'm not going to get into the specifics of money laundering online...

Jaden

 

[justnum]

I agree in that the IPT events were the best production in the history of pool. It was really PGA-like. Top of everything.

It's not realistic to do what Kevin did, production-wise. There's no return for your investment. It's not a thinking big problem, I think. If the market were there, it's healthy to think big. However, to think BIG in a nearly non-existent market is like going to a roulette table and repeatedly betting a million dollars on a number.

What Kevin did do right is he listened to the players. When the big events were not working well, he adjusted to pro-am events.

Barry is too rigid. And when he makes decisions, he usually regrets them. Such as moving to Holiday Inn, the added money. Barry should consult with someone, because as it is he is failing to deliver on what he promised.

 

[Goldy]

Actually YouTube does write checks.

Do you?

Sure do! And we'll be writing many in the future. Tournament Venues, Players, and Productions.

 

[Nostroke]

Well one way would be to set up your own subcontractors that you pay. So Kevin wants to launder say 10 million from Natural Cures through the IPT. Well easy, Natural Cures loans the IPT 10 million or invests in it. The IPT set up as a legal entity then pays out money to the "contractors", $200,000 for catering, $300,000 for lighting and so on. 3 million for website creation paid to the Cayman Ilsands Web Development company.....

That would be one way if you could make the contractors not traceable back to you.

Here in China we call these operations tea houses. Somehow a lot of very expensive tea moves through these places and the cash goes right in the bank clean washed in tea.

The tea idea is better.

 

[AtLarge]

Dave...Actually you can successfully beat the roulette wheel. All you have to do is have enough millions to keep doubling up every time you lose! Sooner or later you'll win (might take a 100 mil or two...but hey, it's only money! LOL).

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

I think the "maximum" bet in casino games effectively controls the double-till-you-win tactic.

 

[JCIN]

I think the "maximum" bet in casino games effectively controls the double-till-you-win tactic.

Its the one of the biggest edge's the house has when it comes to whales. Some places will raise limits but you have to post more money in the cage to get them.

One of those nutty Vegas nights I was hanging out with a friend of friend who was betting $10K a hand and asked to have the table max raised....pit boss comes back and tells him they will raise it but he has to post half a million with the cage. He just kept playing at the 10K max and got hot. Cracked em for 300k. If he would of been able to bet more it could of easily been double that.

Casinos have a clue what they are doing.

 

[juegabillar]

Hah! The place sold out! Every seat had a VIP reservation sticker in front of it, and there was as many bloody seats as they could fit in that room. Regardless of who ended up sitting in the seats, those seats were bought and paid for. Barry himself came on the intercom and said all of the seats were sold. So I don't know how the guy sells the place out and then complains about poor attendance. Ridiculous.

And then to blame it on the hurricane, which actually is causing a lot of problems for people, is a weasely thing to do.

Like others have said in the thread, this is the same old story. I wasn't really complaining because I have learned to expect this from BB. I was really just pointing out what a load of crap it was. There is no excuse for not paying the players in a timely fashion.

Again, you are mistaken. The place seemed packed and sold out because of the limited space. I doubt the VIP seats were sold out. They usually sell many of those seats for the last 3-4 days. In the meantime, the GA's get to enjoys those seats the first few days.

Barry will say things to keep people pumped up during the Open. Barry was not going to say he was losing money or having problems. If he did, some type of mutiny would have occurred since people were going to start asking for their money, and most likely not in a pleasant way.

The Hurricane definitely affected weekend attendance, and the venue layout was not the best. I really cannot see how any money was made in this year's Open. I cannot phantom the idea that people were going to risk their lives traveling to Virginia with such a huge storm approaching the area.

The bottom line is that Barry has "manned up" by admitting he does not have the money, and has promissed to pay the players. Barry and The Players are the ones whom have a real say in this problem. I was not pleased with the Venue, the Payouts, and the Attendance, but then I am not the one who should be telling Barry what to do, or how to do it.

Whatever, is decided by Barry, Shannon, the APB or/and the Players is fine with me. I just hope everything is worked out for the best.


Harold Acosta - Past President
Puerto Rican Billiard Federation

 

[Scott Lee]

Thanks for your perspective Harold! :thumbup: Sorry I missed seeing you this year. It just didn't work out for me (and honestly, with the storm, I'm glad I didn't go). I usually set that trip up with lessons around it, and it would have been a mess, I fear. Hope to see you next year! One of these days I'm gonna have to make it down to PR...my wife LOVES the beach!

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Again, you are mistaken. The place seemed packed and sold out because of the limited space. I doubt the VIP seats were sold out. They usually sell many of those seats for the last 3-4 days. In the meantime, the GA's get to enjoys those seats the first few days.

Barry will say things to keep people pumped up during the Open. Barry was not going to say he was losing money or having problems. If he did, some type of mutiny would have occurred since people were going to start asking for their money, and most likely not in a pleasant way.

The Hurricane definitely affected weekend attendance, and the venue layout was not the best. I really cannot see how any money was made in this year's Open. I cannot phantom the idea that people were going to risk their lives traveling to Virginia with such a huge storm approaching the area.

The bottom line is that Barry has "manned up" by admitting he does not have the money, and has promissed to pay the players. Barry and The Players are the ones whom have a real say in this problem. I was not pleased with the Venue, the Payouts, and the Attendance, but then I am not the one who should be telling Barry what to do, or how to do it.

Whatever, is decided by Barry, Shannon, the APB or/and the Players is fine with me. I just hope everything is worked out for the best.


Harold Acosta - Past President
Puerto Rican Billiard Federation

 

[OnTheMF]

Again, you are mistaken. The place seemed packed and sold out because of the limited space. I doubt the VIP seats were sold out. They usually sell many of those seats for the last 3-4 days. In the meantime, the GA's get to enjoys those seats the first few days.

Barry will say things to keep people pumped up during the Open. Barry was not going to say he was losing money or having problems. If he did, some type of mutiny would have occurred since people were going to start asking for their money, and most likely not in a pleasant way.

The Hurricane definitely affected weekend attendance, and the venue layout was not the best. I really cannot see how any money was made in this year's Open. I cannot phantom the idea that people were going to risk their lives traveling to Virginia with such a huge storm approaching the area.

The bottom line is that Barry has "manned up" by admitting he does not have the money, and has promissed to pay the players. Barry and The Players are the ones whom have a real say in this problem. I was not pleased with the Venue, the Payouts, and the Attendance, but then I am not the one who should be telling Barry what to do, or how to do it.

Whatever, is decided by Barry, Shannon, the APB or/and the Players is fine with me. I just hope everything is worked out for the best.


Harold Acosta - Past President
Puerto Rican Billiard Federation

Haha, whatever buddy. I was actually sitting in the VIP seats all week, you were off in a corner. Once Saturday rolled around EVERY seat had a VIP reservation in front of it, WITH A NAME ON IT. There were so many that they didn't even have room for them all, and some of them ended up in between tables. Those seats were bought and paid for, regardless of whether someone didn't show.

You keep saying everyone else was general admission, as if Barry made no money on those seats either. He charged $20/head, and he over sold so many tickets that he was forced to put up two projects to stream the finals in another room just so people could see the final. And then he charged $5/head on top of that for those in the other ball room.

So spare me your BS, low attendance was not an issue. If he needed so many more people to cover everything why did he have to arrange for the projector to be setup at the last minute? Why were there more people than there was space in the room?

If anything, Barry got WAY MORE people than he expected.

 

[spktur]

Yeah my buddies and I had 6 of those VIP season tickets and weren't in there much at all. It was a pain trying to get to your seats and then is was uncomfortable and a pain if anyone had to leave. The seating was too tight and poorly laid out. I'm surprised the fire marshall went for that layout. It was a trap in the TV room. As far as the weather was concerned, was good up to Friday and we had to leave then due to another trip. But when hurricane Isbell hit we drove up on Tuesday, got to the tournament room on Wednes and was told to go home and batten the hatches about 11 o'clock that night and then had a hotel room without power til Friday but we stayed to the end. I've been there in the VIP seats for about 25 years but our group is considering doing something else next year. Barry has ruined the event. I took 25 years or so to build it and about 10 to ruin it.

 

[RobertaAgnor]

Exactly what I was trying to say before! The VIP seats may have been all sold by the weekend because some people do get them just for Friday & Saturday but they were many that were not sold during the week. GA was only $10 per person & not $20 as someone else said. Ultimately whatever is going on is between Barry, Shannon, & the players that are affected; it's nobody else's business so I don't see why some people want to point fingers & try to say what should be done. The bottom line is, if you don't like what he does then don't come; nobody is forcing you to. I, for one, have been going for 16 years & have no intention of stopping. I support Barry, Shannon, & the many pro players that are my friends.

Again, you are mistaken. The place seemed packed and sold out because of the limited space. I doubt the VIP seats were sold out. They usually sell many of those seats for the last 3-4 days. In the meantime, the GA's get to enjoys those seats the first few days.

Barry will say things to keep people pumped up during the Open. Barry was not going to say he was losing money or having problems. If he did, some type of mutiny would have occurred since people were going to start asking for their money, and most likely not in a pleasant way.

The Hurricane definitely affected weekend attendance, and the venue layout was not the best. I really cannot see how any money was made in this year's Open. I cannot phantom the idea that people were going to risk their lives traveling to Virginia with such a huge storm approaching the area.

The bottom line is that Barry has "manned up" by admitting he does not have the money, and has promissed to pay the players. Barry and The Players are the ones whom have a real say in this problem. I was not pleased with the Venue, the Payouts, and the Attendance, but then I am not the one who should be telling Barry what to do, or how to do it.

Whatever, is decided by Barry, Shannon, the APB or/and the Players is fine with me. I just hope everything is worked out for the best.


Harold Acosta - Past President
Puerto Rican Billiard Federation

 

[joelpope]

Walks like a duck (payment issues in 2008), quacks like a duck (payment issues in 2009), looks like a duck (payment issues in 2010)... payment issues in 2012.... wow, Might Just be a duck!!!

Are you kidding?

I'm sure Barry is as innocent as the driven snow but results don't lie... He is no longer able to promote this event successfully.

What a shame. Not what the US Open for any sport should stand for.

 

[spktur]

Walks like a duck (payment issues in 2008), quacks like a duck (payment issues in 2009), looks like a duck (payment issues in 2010)... payment issues in 2012.... wow, Might Just be a duck!!!

Are you kidding?

I'm sure Barry is as innocent as the driven snow but results don't lie... He is no longer able to promote this event successfully.

What a shame. Not what the US Open for any sport should stand for.

You left out the part where a judge let him out of jail in 2003 to run the tournament and he broke probation by failing a drug test while he was running the tournament.

 

[Taco]

You left out the part where a judge let him out of jail in 2003 to run the tournament and he broke probation by failing a drug test while he was running the tournament.

And people wonder why pool has a bad rep.

 

[nikotesla]

And people wonder why pool has a bad rep.

i don't think the bad rep has anything to do with drugs.

Drug usage is seen in (proven cases) football, boxing, martial arts, auto racing, golf, hockey, baseball, soccer and a few more other sports that are not as popular as these listed. None of these have the "bad rep" from drugs. That is his personal problem that doesn't seem to affect his constant (un)expected failure to run the tournament properly or the payouts.

I think Barry tries and tries and just simply fails every time. He has the best of intentions and wants to do better it just isn't going his way. I'm not saying he didn't make mistakes, I'm just saying the circumstances didn't help anything either.

I think he'll try again, with this lesson learned, again with good intentions, might fail yet again, I just don't think he's giving up the US Open anytime soon. I don't think the players are either. JMO.

Good luck to him next time.. There's so much he can do to improve operations, I don't think him or his daughter have enough business knowledge or the creativity to improve the already established brand. I'm sure there are a lot on this forum with great ideas and feedback for him to take note and perhaps try it that way.. What is the worst that could happen right?

 

[spktur]

i don't think the bad rep has anything to do with drugs.

Drug usage is seen in (proven cases) football, boxing, martial arts, auto racing, golf, hockey, baseball, soccer and a few more other sports that are not as popular as these listed. None of these have the "bad rep" from drugs. That is his personal problem that doesn't seem to affect his constant (un)expected failure to run the tournament properly or the payouts.

I think Barry tries and tries and just simply fails every time. He has the best of intentions and wants to do better it just isn't going his way. I'm not saying he didn't make mistakes, I'm just saying the circumstances didn't help anything either.

I think he'll try again, with this lesson learned, again with good intentions, might fail yet again, I just don't think he's giving up the US Open anytime soon. I don't think the players are either. JMO.

Good luck to him next time.. There's so much he can do to improve operations, I don't think him or his daughter have enough business knowledge or the creativity to improve the already established brand. I'm sure there are a lot on this forum with great ideas and feedback for him to take note and perhaps try it that way.. What is the worst that could happen right?

Yeah but they police it in their sports and it's not the promoters and leaders in the organizations that are going to jail.

 

[Soulweb]

Okay...I was there too.

The tournament had the atmosphere of a poorly run Pop Warner football jamboree. My brother and I had bought VIP seats for Th, Fri, Sat...We arrived to our seats Thursday to some indignant pile of crap who, when explained to him that he was in our seats, "it's not my fault...I've been here all week. These are not your seats."

I found Barry and complained, he said, "That's bullshit!" ...And promptly did absolutely nothing. So we watched Thursday's match from the sidelines...far away from the VIP seats I paid for. And no help from the "organizers" to get us into our seats. So right there, that set the tone for the rest of the tournament. By Friday our seats were named and numbered, and the same Jabba-The-Squatter was there. I explained to him that he could either move now, or move when we get a tournament director...either way he needs to find the seats he paid for (he was just GA). So we did did some tournament directing ourself. ...BTW he just moved down a few seats until he got bumped again. Barry can say, "dont sit in a seat if your name isn't on it" on the mic all you want, but if that's all you do regarding the problem...well it was still a problem.

The tournament was then bookmarked with many inappropriate (not in the derogatory sense, in the literal sense) remarks and statements. Someone needs to get the damn microphone away from Barry. Every break was a chance for him to say something senseless. Parading out his nieces to butcher the National Anthem was not setting the tone of "professionalism." If you want to bring credibility, dignity, and integrity to the event you can't do it by making ever moment a family bonding event. Crazy also was when he brought out some kid to sing, "wind beneath your Wings" while Shannon dragged her dad on the dance floor...err...I mean the TV Table area. This would have been a wonderful moment...if it was some reality TV show. But preceding the US Open finals with this garbage was not only awkward and unnerving to watch, but totally the wrong time and place for it. Nobody came to the finals to watch Barry and Shannon dance to a Bette Middler song. I can only imagine what the players in attendance thought of that circus act.

More proof you say? Why on earth would Barry come out and point out Appleton's black eye...during a alcohol infused skirmish the night before? How on earth does that help the sport? How does that lend any bit of integrity to the tournament? That's great gossip for after the match...outside the room...without a flippin microphone in your hand.

So to mirror what others here have said, the US Open has become a premiere event for 9 Ball. It's amazing that it attracts so much talent from all over the globe. As such, it has long ago surpassed what Barry is capable of running efficiently and professionally. I give him due credit for getting this event to where it's at today. But unless someone with more professional business sense (especially on the microphone) takes over, this event will never progress. If he really wants to be involved, pay someone with a more professional demeanor to MC the entire event. Thank Barry at the end in the same way that Joe Rogan thanks Dana White at the end of a UFC night.

In fact, Joe Rogan would be an excellent MC. He seems to know a bit about pool and would know better than to dance with his daughter before the final match.

I tried to keep quiet reading this long thread, but I figured I'd offer my two cents. For what it's worth, attendance was fine. And all the VIP seats were sold. It's blasphemy that Barry screwed up payouts to the winners. Nobody wants to hear excuses. Attendance was small, Hurricane Sandy, unforeseen expenses...that's Barry's problem. And now it's the problem of some of the people that attended. If Barry came up short financially, that's his problem. That doesn't all of the sudden change the obligation of the tournament to it's competitors. If he keeps this shoddy and haphazard business practice up he won't have people coming to play anyway.

Anyone out there think you can do a better job, now is the time. If the spectators are unhappy...just imagine how the players must feel. Who likes to work for a week and then find out your paycheck bounced?

Yes, I agree...the problem is between Barry and the players. But that doesn't mean people won't take sides. A mistake of this magnitude is going to bring out a lot of opinions. Right or wrong.

Best way to avoid all the fallout is to run the tournament in the manner that benefits the players and the spectators. A manner that pays respect to the tournament's long legacy. Why does winning this tournament have to become synonymous with "poorly run" and bounced checks?

Phew...I'm done.