"Aim Small" on the Cue Ball

jay helfert said:
... How about comparing a soft small tip and a soft larger tip? Which one do you think will have a larger contact area?
I also agree that the curvature of the tip affects the contact area as well. ...
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I don't think the diameter of the tip should make much difference if the curvature is the same. I also don't think the contact area will be significantly different between a dime radius and a nickel radius nor do I think that contact area is an important aspect of play.
 
Scaramouche said:
Interesting.

My theory of snooker cue ball and object ball jumping (kicks) on new cloth is that the chalk on the cue ball, when it comes in contact with the object ball tends to either climb over or elevate the object ball, depending on whether it had follow or draw.

If the small soft snooker tip has a larger contact area, and snooker balls are lighter, this would explain when kicks occur on new snooker cloth but are absent with heavier pool balls.

Should grippy Kamui Rev. 0.1 chalk be avoided?
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Those in the snooker world that believe chalk causes kicks are becoming fewer and fewer. Far more likely to be caused by imprecise cuing and a 'bouncing' CB.

I use Kamui .98 for English pool, and it absolutely drenches the CB in chalk, especially after a break shot.
 
I don't get "too attached" to the Object Ball because I know it's going to be gone

Pidge said:
See the CB
vizualise the CB
Smell the CB
Take the CB out for dinner
...and so on. Billybullshit if you ask me.

Personally when I get down on a shot ill adjust my bridge for the height I need, BHE to the place I want to hit and then a few practice strokes all whilst staring at the OB and thinking what the Mrs is making for dinner the hit the ball. If you have a consistent, straight and repeatable stroke you shouldn't have to pay more attention to the CB to strike it where you lined up to start with.

And no, you don't need a slow motion camera video taping you when you stroke. When I was a kid my dad made me stand with my chest against a wall and do some practice stokes up against the wall....needless to say it did the trick.
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Yeah, to try to see a specific point on the object ball is very challenging after you're down on the shot. I look at a VERY specific spot just Inside of center{TOI} and then become "just aware," of the Object Ball's presence. CLICK FOR MORE

You can see a specific part of the cue ball{consistently} because the distance from your eyes can be controlled (by your pre shot routine). The distance from the Object Ball will vary on most shots.

I recommend the specific "Aiming" be done ABOVE the shot, before you get down. Then after you're down the Primary Target is the Cue Ball, not the object ball. I don't get "too attached" to the Object Ball because I know it's going to be "gone soon," and out of sight. ;)
 
Patrick Johnson said:
One of the most important (and most overlooked) ways to improve your game is also one of the simplest to understand and do: hit the cue ball more precisely.

Most of us tend to hit the cue ball with "high right" or "a little left" or "lots of draw" without paying really close attention to exactly where our tip is making contact on the ball. After all, "a little left" isn't really that much different from a little more or less, is it? Yes, it is - in spades.

The obvious reason is that small changes in where we contact the CB make significant differences in where the CB goes after making the shot. There are also less obvious, but maybe even more significant, impacts on the effectiveness of our stroke and even on shotmaking itself.

Ever notice that when you're "in stroke" it seems almost effortless to make the CB do things that you usually struggle more with? And that you can see and hit cut angles much more accurately, also with less effort? Hitting the CB precisely where we intend to is a big part of why this is so (I think the biggest part).

It isn't so much that things are really easier; it's that things are more often turning out just like we intended them to - because we're giving the cue ball precise "instructions", not just general "suggestions". This closer relationship between what we want and what we do also increases the speed at which we learn - in the same way that we learn to aim more quickly as our stroke gets more reliable: things happen the way we intend them to, so we can more quickly and accurately identify the source of problems and ways to improve.

The quickest way I've found to elevate my shotmaking and cue ball control, both immediately and permanently, is to focus more intently on exactly where I'm hitting the cue ball.

pj
chgo

P.S. This also has many beneficial "side effects", like being more aware of the straightness of your stroke (because you're looking at it), seeing more clearly the precise alignment of tip/CB contact point and CB/OB contact point (especially good for aiming with spin), etc., etc.
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Very nice post, Pat!

This is similar to the advice I give people who ask me how to become better position players. Most learn to play for position "zones", but then never take it beyond that. While a determination of the position zone is very useful, these zones are often quite large, and should by no means be used as an ultimate goal for targeting the cueball. Cueball position requires a very high level of accuracy at times, yet many players condition themselves to play with only a vague notion of ideal cueball positioning.

If we draw a two foot diameter circle on the table and attempt to land the cueball in it, the tendency is to aim for the center of the circle - the same holds true when we are aiming at a large position zone. Often, however, the ideal placement for the cueball is not in the center of the zone, but rather nearer to one edge.

The nasty side-effect of the inadequately precise target a large position zone provides is that it sends a potentially false message of success when we land the cueball anywhere inside of it. Instead of sending an appropriate message like "you overran ideal position by six inches, so figure that into future calculations", the large position zone sends the message of "congratulations, you hit it perfectly". We are left with a feeling of success rather than the constructive criticism that is essential for really getting the cueball under control.

A player would never allow himself to continuously hit every bank shot a half-inch short - he would make note of the inaccuracy and make the appropriate adjustment - yet many players allow themselves to live with much larger misses when it comes to position play, just because they landed whitey in the right zip code. By aiming small with regard to cueball placement, we condition ourselves to play "spot" position rather than "zone" position. If we don't condition ourselves to do this, how can we ever reasonably expect to get there on shots where the zone IS a spot?

Aaron
 
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TheThaiger said:
Those in the snooker world that believe chalk causes kicks are becoming fewer and fewer. Far more likely to be caused by imprecise cuing and a 'bouncing' CB.

I use Kamui .98 for English pool, and it absolutely drenches the CB in chalk, especially after a break shot.
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I agree that a bouncing cue ball can cause unintended consequences, bu I don't think it is the only explanation possible.

Do you would consider the referee cleaning the cue ball completely unnecessary?
Sure would speed up the match.:D
 
TheThaiger said:
Those in the snooker world that believe chalk causes kicks are becoming fewer and fewer. ...
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The end result of mass hysteria?

What is the "orthodox snooker" explanation of the the obviously increased friction between cue ball and object ball during kick shots? Pixies?
 
TheThaiger said:
When I'm playing well, I barely notice the CB. Sort your cue action out and you don't need to. I doubt snooker pros give it a second's thought. Talking of which...Stephen Hendry used to flit his eyes between the OB and the pocket, which I think is fairly unique. But I agree flitting your eyes between the CB and OB is poor practice, and an indicator of poor fundamentals.
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I think you and CJ Wiley have it right and get the genius awards.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I don't think the diameter of the tip should make much difference if the curvature is the same. I also don't think the contact area will be significantly different between a dime radius and a nickel radius nor do I think that contact area is an important aspect of play.
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I disagree with you professor Jewett ;).

I think contact area (specifically how much contact area) has a lot to do with how the cue ball reacts when struck by the tip. I KNOW that there are things that I can do and control better with a larger tip than I can with a smaller tip. Conversely there are certain things that can be done better with a smaller tip. Just about every competent pool player is aware of this and chooses to use a 12.5 to 13mm tip when playing pool. I wonder why this is if (as you say) it makes no difference. Why do you play with the tip you use and what size is it? Would you be willing to play with a 9mm tip instead?

I remember when Oscar was using a 9-10mm tip on his cue. I suggested he might want to move up to at least a 12mm tip if he was serious about winning tournaments. Guess what he uses now? It ain't 10mm! :smile:
 
jay helfert said:
I disagree with you professor Jewett ;).

I think contact area (specifically how much contact area) has a lot to do with how the cue ball reacts when struck by the tip. I KNOW that there are things that I can do and control better with a larger tip than I can with a smaller tip. Conversely there are certain things that can be done better with a smaller tip. Just about every competent pool player is aware of this and chooses to use a 12.5 to 13mm tip when playing pool. I wonder why this is if (as you say) it makes no difference. Why do you play with the tip you use and what size is it? Would you be willing to play with a 9mm tip instead?

I remember when Oscar was using a 9-10mm tip on his cue. I suggested he might want to move up to at least a 12mm tip if he was serious about winning tournaments. Guess what he uses now? It ain't 10mm! :smile:
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I agree with you Jay. Even my 12.5mm tip on my mezz shaft feels too small for me. I shoot my best with 12.75-13mm. Just feels much better to me when hitting the CB.
 
jay helfert said:
I disagree with you professor Jewett ;).

I think contact area (specifically how much contact area) has a lot to do with how the cue ball reacts when struck by the tip. I KNOW that there are things that I can do and control better with a larger tip than I can with a smaller tip. Conversely there are certain things that can be done better with a smaller tip. Just about every competent pool player is aware of this and chooses to use a 12.5 to 13mm tip when playing pool. I wonder why this is if (as you say) it makes no difference. Why do you play with the tip you use and what size is it? Would you be willing to play with a 9mm tip instead?

I remember when Oscar was using a 9-10mm tip on his cue. I suggested he might want to move up to at least a 12mm tip if he was serious about winning tournaments. Guess what he uses now? It ain't 10mm! :smile:
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The type and size of the tip and taper definitely affect the cue's "hit, feel, feedback, and playability." A smaller-diameter shaft will also typically have much less endmass, which has a big affect on CB deflection (squirt). Also, a rounder tip will be more sensitive to slight changes tip position than a flatter tip (and some people might tend to round the tip more when it is smaller). Also, depending on how you visualize and apply english, you might get different amounts of spin with a smaller-diameter shaft as compared to a larger diameter. For more info and supporting resources on these topics, see:

I hope that helps,
Dave
 
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Bob Jewett said:
The end result of mass hysteria?

What is the "orthodox snooker" explanation of the the obviously increased friction between cue ball and object ball during kick shots? Pixies?
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The "orthodox" explanation for kicks has been chalk, a view presumably popularised when an enthusiastic amateur set out to prove the theory he wanted to prove.

But this traditional explanation is no longer considered 'fact'. There are STILL 23,000 people working for the BBC, and it's STILL the most respected broadcaster on the planet, with the resources to match. And snooker is STILL a professionally run and credible sport.

You choose who you want to believe, just keep your hair on though, eh?
 
Patrick Johnson said:
dr_dave said:
The type and size of the tip and taper definitely affect the cue's "hit, feel, feedback, and playability." A smaller-diameter shaft will also typically have much less endmass, which has a big affect on CB deflection (squirt). Also, a rounder tip will be more sensitive to slight changes tip position than a flatter tip (and some people might tend to round the tip more when it is smaller). Also, depending on how you visualize and apply english, you might get different amounts of spin with a smaller-diameter shaft as compared to a larger diameter. For more info and supporting resources on these topics, see:
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"Much" more?
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Good catch. I've remove the "much" word from my post. It is not what I intended.

Thanks,
Dave
 
Scaramouche said:
I agree that a bouncing cue ball can cause unintended consequences, bu I don't think it is the only explanation possible.

Do you would consider the referee cleaning the cue ball completely unnecessary?
Sure would speed up the match.:D
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I think it's pretty unnecessary, yes. I would have two sets of balls and just change them at the end of each frame, cleaning the set that's just been used in preparation for the next.

There has been a marked change in the players' attitude to cleaning the CB in recent years - there was a time when it was cleaned every 5/6 shots, now it's not so common. Even Ebbo has scaled back on it. If it was certainly just about chalk, the players would be cleaning it after every shot.

I've seen 'bad contacts' happen the shot after the CB has been cleaned. How is that possible? Have you seen the BBC's super slo-mo shots of how much the CB bounces before it gets to the OB? Really worth looking at, and a thing of sheer beauty, too.
 
TheThaiger said:
Have you seen the BBC's super slo-mo shots of how much the CB bounces before it gets to the OB? Really worth looking at, and a thing of sheer beauty, too.
Click to expand...

I often point out to those lesser players how much they are bouncing the CB & that the normal reason is they are hitting far too downward on the ball & even a bit of off center CB hit is what is ruining their intended shot.

Regards,
 
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