Bonus Ball--That Dog Won't Hunt

You can bet that whoever has the means to invest several million in pool knows that they are not getting it back from a $9.95 ppv stream. Why not wait until the league starts and the business model unfolds before criticizing it? The BB folks might actually have something in their back pocket that makes sense to them. Who knows it could be anything from a reality show, to league's to a relationship with one of the LV casino's.
I watched "American Hoggers" over the weekend, a show about hunting boars in Texas, half the show is subtitled. I thought it was kind of entertaining. Point being, don't be surprised what can be sold to the public.
 
Jaden said:
People could have said the same thing about hitting a ball with a stick, or running with a ball and trying to knock the guy with the ball down.

The truth of that could be said about anything that has been successfully marketed in the past.

How do you then explain the success of televised snooker???

Cause everyone KNOWS that snooker is SO much more exciting than pool. lol.

I was trying to be considerate but your personally insulting posts are getting old.

Jaden

p.s. I've streamed tournaments including an international 3 cushion tourney for free because I love the game and want to see it succeed....
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How does snooker do in the US? Not much success here. What about Cricket or even Soccer??? How does Budweiser sell in the UK? Just because something does well in certain parts of the world, doesn't mean it will do well in others.

And to be honest, I don't think snooker really does that well. Top snooker players make very good money and it does much better than pool in the US, but not exactly Tiger Woods money.
 
Thats because they aren't marketed here.

cleary said:
How does snooker do in the US? Not much success here. What about Cricket or even Soccer??? How does Budweiser sell in the UK? Just because something does well in certain parts of the world, doesn't mean it will do well in others.

And to be honest, I don't think snooker really does that well. Top snooker players make very good money and it does much better than pool in the US, but not exactly Tiger Woods money.
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No the truth of the matter is that with the right marketing ANYTHING can be made popular.

With that being said, I don't think that pool as an individual sport is marketable RIGHT NOW. Most individual sports are not marketable. That's why I laugh when people try to compare pool to golf. Golf is the exception, not the rule.

It is a different class of people any more that play golf versus playing pool. That didn't used to be the case, hence pool being more socially adherent in the past.

As I have stated, without the team aspect and several other things, like allowing for amatuers to have the illusion of competitiveness on a good day, I agree that pool is not marketable, but with those things, I think it becomes marketable.

Only time will tell, but the attitude that pool will never be successful and CAN'T be successful is not only detrimental to the future of the sport, but I think it is foolish as well.

Jaden
 
Jaden said:
People could have said the same thing about hitting a ball with a stick, or running with a ball and trying to knock the guy with the ball down.

The truth of that could be said about anything that has been successfully marketed in the past.

How do you then explain the success of televised snooker???

Cause everyone KNOWS that snooker is SO much more exciting than pool. lol.

I was trying to be considerate but your personally insulting posts are getting old.

Jaden
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Do you know the history of how snooker came to be on television and how it was grown?

Whats personally insulting is people with no idea at all about what they are prattling on about talking down to people who actually make a living at it however shitty it may be.
 
JAM said:
You are interpreting it that I am stating it as a fact, which is a normal forum trait when people twist words around to mean different things. It happens all the time, especially here in AzBilliards Land. Everybody has their own agenda.

I do notice in reading this forum that the majority of pool peeps and AzBilliards members from the fine State of Arizona is very much pro Bonus Ball. :D

Of course, maybe I am twisting words around to mean different things by this statement. :p

If you read the other thread correctly, then maybe you would be able to ascertain that I learned of this news from three different sources that Jim Wych was owed money from the Bonus Ball entity. IOW, this is hearsay. I have not spoken to Jim Wych, nor have I spoken to Bonus Ball.

Does this help clarify?
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Yes, it clarified everything: the money owed to Jim Wych is just a rumor; and you feel justified in spreading that rumor.

Roger
 
Hawk said:
You can bet that whoever has the means to invest several million in pool knows that they are not getting it back from a $9.95 ppv stream. Why not wait until the league starts and the business model unfolds before criticizing it? The BB folks might actually have something in their back pocket that makes sense to them. Who knows it could be anything from a reality show, to league's to a relationship with one of the LV casino's.
I watched "American Hoggers" over the weekend, a show about hunting boars in Texas, half the show is subtitled. I thought it was kind of entertaining. Point being, don't be surprised what can be sold to the public.
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How many seasons do you think "American Hoggers" will be on cable TV?
 
I was not talking down to you...

JCIN said:
Do you know the history of how snooker came to be on television and how it was grown?

Whats personally insulting is people with no idea at all about what they are prattling on about talking down to people who actually make a living at it however shitty it may be.
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I don't know how or why you perceived that I was talking down to you.

I also don't know how or why you would think I don't know what I'm talking about.

With the format you are supporting I think you are doing the best job that can be done.

But you are working around and within the existing fan base.

For the marketing of pool to succeed we have to find a way to reach outside of the fanbase and I think that anyone on the inside right now to think that they should be the defacto standard for reaching outside of the fanbase IS laughable, because thus far nothing that has been done has managed to do so.

I think it is laughable that since what has been done hasn't been able to reach outside of the existing fan base that those working with the existing fanbase think it is impossible to get outside of the existing fanbase.

That's not meant to be an insult to you or anyone else working within the existing fanbase. That's just the truth. It's rather obvious that what HAS been tried and has had limited success with the existing fanbase is NOT going to be able to reach outside the existing fanbase, but to say that nothing will is laughable.

I don't mean that I'm laughing at you, if that is how you perceived it. I respect you greatly and I hope to be able to get on TAR one day, either in the booth or as a competitor.

I didn't mean to be insulting to you. Hell I consider Mark a friend and do believe that he has some good ideas to expand the sport too.

I know when I said insiders that you seem to have taken me to mean you personally, I didn't.

That's why I posted up to not take what I said personally, I was not referring to you or to Mark.

Hell, I don't know who I was referring to. I just meant that I don't believe for a second that pool needs a grave marker and I'll laugh at anyone who says that it does.

DO YOU believe that pool is dead and needs to be buried??? I don't believe that you do or you would close up shop.

I'm just getting tired of people jumping up and bashing any new idea that comes along...

Doesn't it get old??? not giving anything new a chance when the old has proven itself inadequate, at least inadequate to the level that we would all like to see????

Jaden
 
Jaden said:
No the truth of the matter is that with the right marketing ANYTHING can be made popular.

Jaden
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Really?

New Coke. Windows Vista. Sony Betamax.

You think those companies might know something about marketing, and have a few dollars to spend on it. "Anything can be marketed", really?

Let's stay sport related then. USFL Football League, with Donald Trump and all his money. XFL, with Vince McMahon and his marketing machine, at the height of WWE success, and a network TV deal.

Or how much time, effort and money that has been put into making soccer successful in the US over the last 20 years.

So the answer is "no, not necessarily anything can be marketed as a success".

I hope Bonus Ball does well. But to blindly assume that they know something that others don't is perhaps a little naive.
 
I said with the right marketing...

justadub said:
Really?

New Coke. Windows Vista. Sony Betamax.

You think those companies might know something about marketing, and have a few dollars to spend on it. "Anything can be marketed", really?

Let's stay sport related then. USFL Football League, with Donald Trump and all his money. XFL, with Vince McMahon and his marketing machine, at the height of WWE success, and a network TV deal.

Or how much time, effort and money that has been put into making soccer successful in the US over the last 20 years.

So the answer is "no, not necessarily anything can be marketed as a success".

I hope Bonus Ball does well. But to blindly assume that they know something that others don't is perhaps a little naive.
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See, insiders don't always know what the right marketing is.

What about things that should never have been successful but were, the right marketing will win out every time. The question is knowing what the right marketing is....

Soccer is and will be successful, on telemundo...lol

Jaden
 
Jaden how about chess? Could you market it enough to get the masses to want to watch it? You'd get the die hard chess fans I'm sure. Pool is more like chess to me than football or baseball.
 
exactly my point...

dorabelle said:
Jaden how about chess? Could you market it enough to get the masses to want to watch it? You'd get the die hard chess fans I'm sure. Pool is more like chess to me than football or baseball.
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Sure you could, it would require changes though, maybe enough changes that chess would no longer be able to be considered chess.

Sometimes it's a grass roots level change in perception, sometimes it's a restructuring.

What will actually work, who knows, what we do know is that what hs been being done is NOT working.

Jaden
 
justadub said:
Really?

New Coke. Windows Vista. Sony Betamax.

You think those companies might know something about marketing, and have a few dollars to spend on it. "Anything can be marketed", really?

Let's stay sport related then. USFL Football League, with Donald Trump and all his money. XFL, with Vince McMahon and his marketing machine, at the height of WWE success, and a network TV deal.

Or how much time, effort and money that has been put into making soccer successful in the US over the last 20 years.

So the answer is "no, not necessarily anything can be marketed as a success".

I hope Bonus Ball does well. But to blindly assume that they know something that others don't is perhaps a little naive.
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Sega Master System versus Nintendo Entertainment System.

The former had better graphics, games, and an 8-directional gamepad.

The latter had Mario Bros.
 
JAM said:
How many seasons do you think "American Hoggers" will be on cable TV?
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2 so far I expect it will got at least one more for three I think 5 is a stretch so I would bet on 3 seasons at even money.
 
lfigueroa said:
IMO, BB is DOA.

They are throwing cash at the project, true, but from what I've read here, they are doing so without a true understanding of the game and its players. (Other than: if you pay them, they will come.). I think one of the prime mistakes they are making is trying to force feed the game (BB) from the top down,when they should have spent some of their dough building interest and support for the game at the grass roots. A secondary issue is having all the teams and matches play in Las Vegas and not generating support in the cities these guys are supposed to be representing.

Also, presenting their case here amongst the hardcore, with substantial chip on shoulder, is doing their organization and product incalculable harm in terms of lost goodwill in the industry.

Some key BB representatives don't seem to understand any of that.

Lou Figueroa
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That's about all anyone would expect from you?
Predictable to say the least.
 
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