Bank or Cut?

John Novak said:
Keep in mind this is for the WIN...Would you risk the cash on a 3 rail bank? I doubt it
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Actually i set up your shot, 1st time i tried to bank 3 rail i made in opposite corner to try to keep cb on the rail, 2nd time it went in the side 3 rails, but cb went up table not safe had i missed it, tried it again i made it 2nd time, the 3rd i missed and left it by the side pocket cb next to it.

I made it two rails in corner pocket once, i tried the cut 3 times made it on 2nd, and 3rd attempt, the 1st attempt it hit the teddy of pocket and went to other corner pocket.


I tried several safe attempts, the most effective was to role cb very soft straight at the 8 and park cb on it.

After trying all above, i felt the above safe is most effective play, "you would live another day" as Grady Mathews used to say..God bless him.
 
Maniac said:
C'mon guys, aiming system??? Anybody that has shot any amount of pool at all ought to be able to cut this shot in by just getting down, stroking smoothly & straight, keeping their head still, and just stroking the cueball. Sure, I'll agree with those that said a touch of high is the way to go, but other than that, this shot is not only NOT that tough, I find it to be fairly routine. But then, cutting balls is one of my strengths.

No rocket science here. Just a thin slice-n-dice and pick up the cheese.

Us AZB'ers tend to overthink the hell out of some of the simplest things.

Maniac
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Yes, aiming system. These are precisely the type of cut shots that are easy to dog for the cash and it is my experience that using an aiming system puts me dead on the right line every time with zero hesitation.

I don't know how many pressure matches the average az'er has played but I have gambled up to $600 a game many times and I can tell you that the difference for shots like this with and without an aiming system is HUGE for me personally.
 
So, if this is an all-day-long shot for some of you (and I can't dispute that, there are some good shotmakers out there)...

What if it's not an all day long shot, you move the balls further from the pocket and/or each other? Let's say you look at a similar shot and feel at best 50% to cut it in.

Do you play to miss safe, or do you say "well, I think the cut is 50% and the bank is only 40% so I'm gonna go for it"?
 
Maniac said:
C'mon guys, aiming system??? Anybody that has shot any amount of pool at all ought to be able to cut this shot in by just getting down, stroking smoothly & straight, keeping their head still, and just stroking the cueball. Sure, I'll agree with those that said a touch of high is the way to go, but other than that, this shot is not only NOT that tough, I find it to be fairly routine. But then, cutting balls is one of my strengths.

No rocket science here. Just a thin slice-n-dice and pick up the cheese.

Us AZB'ers tend to overthink the hell out of some of the simplest things.

Maniac
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Actually top english is wrong choice; naturally you would want to over cut this shot, and has to be shot with fast speed; fast speed and top will take the OB where you aimed at no throw and possible over cut at times. To throw OB you have to have CB sliding at time when it hit OB, or shoot it very soft, therefore, depending on cloth, either just below center hit, or not too much bottom will throw it in pocket. Make sure 8 ball has no smudge near contact point!!!
 
CreeDo said:
So, if this is an all-day-long shot for some of you (and I can't dispute that, there are some good shotmakers out there)...

What if it's not an all day long shot, you move the balls further from the pocket and/or each other? Let's say you look at a similar shot and feel at best 50% to cut it in.

Do you play to miss safe, or do you say "well, I think the cut is 50% and the bank is only 40% so I'm gonna go for it"?
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I practice this shot routinely, but.....from the OTHER side of the side pocket, cutting it down the rail. It's good practice It's amazing how many times a shot like this comes up when you NEED it the most, and you can't bank it because opponents balls have blocked any other option.

CreeDo, you and others are correct in saying the execution choices for this shot can only be determined by each individual as to what their comfort level is. Confidence is key when attempting tough shots.

By regularly practicing a shot similar (but tougher than) the OP's shot, I have all the confidence in the world of making the OP's shot if it were to present itself in a game. Others may not.

Maniac
 
evanlockhart said:
You better be cutting this ball. Unless you're John Brumback or something. Or Efren. But even Efren would choose a cut I think, unless he wanted to troll you.

You also should be practicing cut shots like this to get an understanding in your head of where you need to hit to make it, every time.
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.....and you should be practicing the bank as well because the cut will not always be viable (with other balls on the table of course)....


It's not a difficult cut IMHO...but practice it of course. But if you can't reliably bank then part of your game is missing, so practice that too.



.
 
I would cut it, but if the feeling is great that the bank will work and sometimes you can just tell - then bank it. Better tried and know that the banks work well on the table. Also, if the roll is bad on that table, a bank rather then a slow cut may be even safer.
 
naji said:
Actually top english is wrong choice; naturally you would want to over cut this shot, and has to be shot with fast speed; fast speed and top will take the OB where you aimed at no throw and possible over cut at times. To throw OB you have to have CB sliding at time when it hit OB, or shoot it very soft, therefore, depending on cloth, either just below center hit, or not too much bottom will throw it in pocket. Make sure 8 ball has no smudge near contact point!!!
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No, it's not the wrong choice, it's simply a different choice than you would make.

I practiced this (OP's) shot for about 20 minutes last night and once I got in stroke (haven't been playing much lately) made this shot probably 8 out of every 10 times I shot it. I used high english EVERY time I shot it. The cueball always ended up on the same rail the 8-ball was nearest to, usually about a diamond further up the table. Never once was in danger of scratching, which is all I'm really concerned with on this shot as I feel I am going to make it fairly regular.

Maniac
 
naji said:
Actually i set up your shot,

... i felt the above safe is most effective play, "you would live another day" as Grady Mathews used to say..God bless him.
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Am I reading you correctly? You are claiming the proper shot is to punt?

Come on, Naj! Nobody is falling for that.
 
Maniac said:
No, it's not the wrong choice, it's simply a different choice than you would make.

I practiced this (OP's) shot for about 20 minutes last night and once I got in stroke (haven't been playing much lately) made this shot probably 8 out of every 10 times I shot it. I used high english EVERY time I shot it. The cueball always ended up on the same rail the 8-ball was nearest to, usually about a diamond further up the table. Never once was in danger of scratching, which is all I'm really concerned with on this shot as I feel I am going to make it fairly regular.

Maniac
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Thanks M. I did not say you cannot make it with top, but, giving the nature of thin cuts we tend to under cut them 80% of times, and possibly we are throwing the OB to rail, therefore, we want to over cut a bit, when you over cut you have to throw it in pocket, and cannot throw it using top english and fast speed.

A good way also, top right or just RH center elevated cue slightly, soft shot, CB swerve a little to the right, so under cut for this shot would be good
 
Black-Balled said:
BEst safe is to make the stupid ball.

If you let me back to the table, you will be worse than I and wishing you had chosen offense on your prior turn.
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Well 1st i should not give and take with a 19000000 poster! but what the hick!! if i park you on top of the 8 ball what you gona do, touch it , then what , if it is freezes ok then different story, but for sure no one can miss with BB
 
naji said:
Well 1st i should not give and take with a 19000000 poster! but what the hick!! if i park you on top of the 8 ball what you gona do, touch it , then what , if it is freezes ok then different story, but for sure no one can miss with BB
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With less control than it takes to perfectly slow roll the CB leaving it dead on top of the OB while on that angle to the rail.... might as well just cut the dang thing in. Your just as likely to sell out.

:grin-square:
 
RRfireblade said:
With less control than it takes to perfectly slow roll the CB leaving it dead on top of the OB while on that angle to the rail.... might as well just cut the dang thing in. Your just as likely to sell out.

:grin-square:
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Player's experience, probability and statistics play a major role in this shot.

i know if i cut and miss i sell out 100% (you never know where ob will end up at, but most likely stays at bottom half of table where cb is)

If i bank, there is a good chance to make it, but if i under bank it could go back to other corner, and cb will stay at bottom half of table, sell out

Play safe to leave 8 ball at center of bottom rail is not easy very risky

Play safe rolling cb straight soft worst case you will double kiss and stay safe, unless you are a freshman player..let the other player deal with the decision.
 
naji said:
Player's experience, probability and statistics play a major role in this shot.

i know if i cut and miss i sell out 100% (you never know where ob will end up at, but most likely stays at bottom half of table where cb is)

If i bank, there is a good chance to make it, but if i under bank it could go back to other corner, and cb will stay at bottom half of table, sell out

Play safe to leave 8 ball at center of bottom rail is not easy very risky

Play safe rolling cb straight soft worst case you will double kiss and stay safe, unless you are a freshman player..let the other player deal with the decision.
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Players experience also tells me how to miss a cut and not sell out. :-)

Unless you are a freshman player.
 
Correct speed is always important. and the correct speed is always pocket speed. No matter if you have a tough diamond or an old brunswick table.
And to say *some may miss or overcut it.......* -well no matter about what percentage we then would talk- the easy answer is, that the guys/players who miss the shot, just hit the object ball wrong. That s it.
Top sping with pocket speed, center with pocket speed, or *toi* with pocket speed.
Amen.


cut it, win it, rack it.
 
naji said:
Player's experience, probability and statistics play a major role in this shot.

i know if i cut and miss i sell out 100% (you never know where ob will end up at, but most likely stays at bottom half of table where cb is)

If i bank, there is a good chance to make it, but if i under bank it could go back to other corner, and cb will stay at bottom half of table, sell out

Play safe to leave 8 ball at center of bottom rail is not easy very risky

Play safe rolling cb straight soft worst case you will double kiss and stay safe, unless you are a freshman player..let the other player deal with the decision.
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Your reasoning does have its place in pool smarts, but not with respect to the shot being discussed. Any advice, other than cut the 8 into the pocket, is not the best.

And I still have serious doubts that you would do anything other than cut it in, given the shot in real world..
 
I would cut the ball. I' lost my banking skills when i got better with my cuts and now am practicing to get it back. But it's all a matter of personal preference and comfort. If you get down on the shot and think you're going to miss, you most likely will. you simply have to take the shot you're most confident in making. The more confident you are, the better shot you'll have at making the ball.
 
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