playing well without aiming systems

[JoseV]

Whatever works for you is the right thing. I wouldn't comment one way or another on the need for aiming systems.

What I am curious about is the term "fairly high level" or I'm a "good" player.

Those are relative terms and really difficult to associate with whether or not an aiming system may improve your game.

My personal perception of a fairly high level, or good player is someone who can set up a full rack of balls, pull one off the top, set up a break shot, and within 4 or 5 tries, run 30 to 40 balls without missing. Someone else may feel it should be 50 or 60 balls, and someone else might think its 14 balls.

Others might equate it to beating some ghost guy ... I dunno about all that. So ... where you fall is your personal comfort zone if you're happy with where you are, you don't need anything.

I do something similar but I just smash the 8 ball rack take BIH anywhere on the table and just try to sink as many as I can without missing.

Or sometimes I'll just randomly spread all the balls and try to make them I love this drill it makes me feel good when I can make 40 something balls before I miss.

 

[obclassicut]

I started out like I'm sure most of us did playing 8 ball, as I got better I moved to straight pool on 8 ft tables and that taught me a lot about ball placement, also endless nights of playing 9 ball "pill partners" at the pool hall till the sun came up. For me the more I played the more natural it became to play off the rails. I never found myself using the diamonds so much for aiming, but if I picked up a partner that didn't play well, I could ususally point out where to hit. How many years have you been playing?

I have only been playing seriously since i got my table 4 months ago. ( was playing 8+ hrs pee day, now working so a little less) Been playing in league for 5-6 years now. Started playing not-seriously 10 years ago when i was 14 (couple friends had pool tables and my older bro is a pool junkie). I say not-seriously because then i was content with my skills to beat most players. Now playing seriously i am not content with anything, lol. I guess as i got older i realized how bad my game was compared to my perception of it which gave me desire to improve. Now just work on my memory and lots of table time! So in short, 10 years.

Also from my original post( i was in 2nd place in my 8 ball league after 16 weeks, lost to the top dog tonight in a game of 8 ball so i lost a few points. i could possibly be in third now. Wanted to commit suicide after i played scared and missed a cut down the green to give him the game, haha.) figured that should have been mentioned after i proclaimed my ranking as if it were in the past tense:sorry:

 

[CJ Wiley]

playing at a level you never thought (consciously) possible.

Wow. This must be the most civil aiming discussion I've seen on here. :thumbup: It's interesting what CJ said about seeing shots as being straight in. When I'm shooting really well, I've noticed that the shots look just that way- more like straight in shots than cut shots.

When someone finally understands how the mind coordinates with the game of pool it will seem like every shot is staight in. That's how the Champion players can go for hours without missing a shot. Every shot has a common theme, and if you don't see the straight in portion relative to the pocket you'll never achieve this level (never say never )

The human mind is incredible at the subconscious level and judging angles is relatively simple. We make it difficult when we try to see hundreds, or even thousands of different shots. It's like complex music, it sounds complicated, however, when you break it down to a "formula" there's a consistent theme a just a few variations.

Pool is the same way, once you understand the "theme" is the straight in position of the balls and the different angles are merely "variations," you are on your way to playing at a level you never thought (consciously) possible.

 

[336Robin]

CTE Player

I thought "BLADE" sent a name of a local you could hook up with in another thread..."I can contact Jared McGee to play you a little. He uses real CTE. I taught him a few months back. He isn't a funsy player tho. Let me know."

of course there is also Stevie or Landon or maybe take a trip out to Stan's

see no need to die of anticipation

Nb92,

I have the name and Im sure Ill run across Jared at some point. Stevie said this guy isnt a funsy player which tells me he is probably a gambler. I dont do much gambling while Im paying college tution so I havent jumped all over the opportunity.

So where are you located? Are you a cte player?

 

[predator]

You cannot play well without aiming systems. Not possible. The more complex the system, the better player you will be. All professional players use aiming systems, but they won't reveal them as it would significantly reduce the learning curve for very high level amateurs.

Snooker players do use aiming systems contrary to popular belief. In fact, once they mastered their fundamentals, they still didn't know how to aim properly, i.e. they would misjudge the angle often as they could really only shoot straight. So they consulted rec.sport.billiards newsgroup and this site as well. Robertson and Trump read AZB aiming threads all the time. That's why they are so accurate.

 

[bbb]

I can play pool at a fairly high level most of the time ( 2nd place in a 8- ball league consisting of about 60 players, most of which are beginners) . I do not use any type of aiming system or diamond system consciously that i know of. Am i missing out or are there good players that only rely on there feed-forward process and do not need aiming systems? i hear of these aiming systems a lot, i hope they are just a gimmick. Know of any pros that do not use aiming systems? i know there are other threads on this but i like to ask the question in my own words

the fact that you can make a ball means you use some type of system
just sayin

 

[lfigueroa]

the fact that you can make a ball means you use some type of system
just sayin

No, it just means that you are being systematic in your PSR. I suppose you could call that a system but it is not an aiming system as much as it would be a system for setting up for an accurate stroke.

Lou Figueroa

 

[RG1]

Everybody uses an aiming system but most do it subconsciously or unconsciously. If I were to tell john Schmidt to set up the same shot and tell him to shoot it in ten times in a row. He will be aligned the exact same for every shot. If you then were to break down each shot in detail, you can add lines that will match up on all the shots. Systems have just made you aware of how a shot is made consciously and how to make the correct shot consciously and in detail. Some systems go into more detail than others do and some people have trouble understanding how to make a shot consciously and struggle with systems.

Now if you did not know how to run a rack before learning an aiming system, you still wont know how to run a rack after learning an aiming system. it takes a lot of different skills to run a rack other than being a good potter. Its common sense.

 

[nb92]

Nb92,

I have the name and Im sure Ill run across Jared at some point. Stevie said this guy isnt a funsy player which tells me he is probably a gambler. I dont do much gambling while Im paying college tution so I havent jumped all over the opportunity.

So where are you located? Are you a cte player?

Robin,

I will send you a PM and see if we can arrange a visit... I have a growing pool library and would like a signed copy of your book....

Neal

 

[KRJ]

I believe that if you find your bestest setup that, on it's own, that will take care of aiming. Most of the pros I've spoken to over the years say the same thing: if you set up right you can pretty much close you eyes and make the ball and never mind about aiming systems.

The only reason you don't close your eyes is because pool requires you to hit the CB all over the place, at different speeds, and often with elevation, so you need to make those adjustments. Somewhat obviously, there is no system for that other than practice, experience, feel, and more practice.

Lou Figueroa

So, we can assume that pro's do have some "gift" or other areas that just come natural to them, versus us amatuers. I don't need to aim on shots that are straight in, or small cut shots, around 30% or less... but after that I use the tip of my ferrule on the object ball... similar to what SVB does....

I didn't learn it from anyone, I just always did it. Because it worked for me. I can do it without using the "tip" method, but just not as consistent without it.. And I've tried and tried, cause I too always wanted to be the "freewheeling" player who can just look at the ball, and know preceisly where to hit it... but I can't, and most likely never will.

thus, I need a place to aim on the object ball, so I can make it. And thus, must be a reason why most of the top players do not need to do this, but it's nice to know that someone like SVB became so good without ALL the natural "aiming" ablity, and still aims sometimes like us mere mortals Makes us think we might have a chance afterall

 

[The Saw]

No, it just means that you are being systematic in your PSR. I suppose you could call that a system but it is not an aiming system as much as it would be a system for setting up for an accurate stroke.

Lou Figueroa

Repetition is the mother of all skill... It has been proven to me that a solid and consistent PSR is the absolute key essential to playing good. Bartram was getting ready to play a big match, Dippy, Appleton or Rodney Morris maybe, and had been playing poker for 6 months. He had only been to the poolroom maybe 4 or 5 times in that period and hadn't hit a ball for at least a month and a half, maybe more. He comes out of the gate playing maybe the last two off his normal speed and within 15-20 minutes you would have sworn he had been playing 8-10 hours a day for the past 6 months. I told him it was sick that he could do that and he attributed it to having a set in stone PSR to where he can take months off but he does the same thing every time so its easy to fall back into it. That's the reason I myself invested so heavily into Stan's Pro One system, a solid and repetitive PSR is essential to making it work correctly. The PSR, CTE and Pro One all feed off each other and they reinforce each other. IMO, that is what brings accuracy, having all three of those components all firing on the same cylinder...

 

[RG1]

The best and quickest way to learn how to should by "feel" correctly is to use an aiming system, believe it or not. You have to really think about this to understand it...my opinion

 

[JoeyA]

ABA member

Aiming systems have been developed to help people with their aiming. Some people actually have trouble with what I call, "naturally seeing the shot" and an aiming system can help give them a different and concise perspective.

If you aim by feel and you are happy with your results, look no further.

Learning a few different aiming systems won't hurt your game. At least, it hasn't hurt mine. In fact, I can honestly say, aiming systems have helped improve my game.

Some of the more modern aiming systems like Pro1 teach a lot more than just connecting the cue ball and the object ball.

Perfect Aim is another aiming system that seems to help a lot of people.

I think that those people who claim they don't have an aiming system would probably confess to you in private, that they have a "method" or "manner" of aligning themselves to the shot and a "method" or "manner" of finding the PERFECT SIGHT PICTURE. I think they just can't bring themselves to use the words "aiming system".

However you get to the PERFECT SIGHT PICTURE, it's all right with me. :smile:

 

[dr_dave]

I can play pool at a fairly high level most of the time ( 2nd place in a 8- ball league consisting of about 60 players, most of which are beginners) . I do not use any type of aiming system or diamond system consciously that i know of. Am i missing out or are there good players that only rely on there feed-forward process and do not need aiming systems? i hear of these aiming systems a lot, i hope they are just a gimmick. Know of any pros that do not use aiming systems? i know there are other threads on this but i like to ask the question in my own words

Aiming systems provide some people with many potential benefits. Also, some "aiming systems" are simply (or mostly) purposeful "pre-shot routines," which can be helpful to most people. For more info, see:

benefits of "aiming systems"
pre-shot routine resource page​

"Diamond systems" for aiming kick and bank shots are very different from cut shot "aiming systems." People who have trouble with kick and bank shot accuracy and consistency can certainly benefit from "diamond systems." For more info, including illustrations and video demonstrations, see:

bank and kick shot "diamond system" resource page​

Regards,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

Aiming systems have been developed to help people with their aiming. Some people actually have trouble with what I call, "naturally seeing the shot" and an aiming system can help give them a different and concise perspective.

If you aim by feel and you are happy with your results, look no further.

Learning a few different aiming systems won't hurt your game. At least, it hasn't hurt mine. In fact, I can honestly say, aiming systems have helped improve my game.

Some of the more modern aiming systems like Pro1 teach a lot more than just connecting the cue ball and the object ball.

Perfect Aim is another aiming system that seems to help a lot of people.

I think that those people who claim they don't have an aiming system would probably confess to you in private, that they have a "method" or "manner" of aligning themselves to the shot and a "method" or "manner" of finding the PERFECT SIGHT PICTURE. I think they just can't bring themselves to use the words "aiming system".

However you get to the PERFECT SIGHT PICTURE, it's all right with me. :smile:

Excellent post Joey.

People who shoot well, even if they don't use a prescribed "aiming system," usually have a purposeful pre-shot routine, good visual alignment, and a approach to sighting that helps them be accurate and consistent with shot making.

Regards,
Dave

 

[RG1]

Excellent post Joey.

People who shoot well, even if they don't use a prescribed "aiming system," usually have a purposeful pre-shot routine, good visual alignment, and a approach to sighting that helps them be accurate and consistent with shot making.

Regards,
Dave

Good post dr dave! Players have learned to blend (pre-shot routine, good visual alignment, and a approach to sighting) into their own personal subconscious aiming system that a lot of people call “feel”

 

[dr_dave]

Good post dr dave! Players have learned to blend (pre-shot routine, good visual alignment, and a approach to sighting) into their own personal subconscious aiming system that a lot of people call “feel”

This is what I call DAM.

Regards,
Dave

 

[lfigueroa]

Repetition is the mother of all skill... It has been proven to me that a solid and consistent PSR is the absolute key essential to playing good. Bartram was getting ready to play a big match, Dippy, Appleton or Rodney Morris maybe, and had been playing poker for 6 months. He had only been to the poolroom maybe 4 or 5 times in that period and hadn't hit a ball for at least a month and a half, maybe more. He comes out of the gate playing maybe the last two off his normal speed and within 15-20 minutes you would have sworn he had been playing 8-10 hours a day for the past 6 months. I told him it was sick that he could do that and he attributed it to having a set in stone PSR to where he can take months off but he does the same thing every time so its easy to fall back into it. That's the reason I myself invested so heavily into Stan's Pro One system, a solid and repetitive PSR is essential to making it work correctly. The PSR, CTE and Pro One all feed off each other and they reinforce each other. IMO, that is what brings accuracy, having all three of those components all firing on the same cylinder...

Amen. It's all about the PSR. I was playing extremely well, for me -- had a couple of very nice runs practicing 14.1 -- then took some time off for the holidays. I came back and my game was a mess. So I went back and looked at some notes I had made and realized that I had fallen into an older, less successful PSR. So, because of my notes, I was able to get back into the later PSR and: viola! All was great again.

There are some guys around here that are the same as you describe CB. They can *literally* blow the dust off their cue case and in moments be playing like they'd never taken a day off. But all these guys, if you were to take film of their PSR a year ago and today, they look exactly the same.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Cuemaster98]

I tell people to learn to aim so they don't have to aim when they're playing. Whether you learn to aim by hitting a million balls or through one of the various systems available...I think the goal is to develop references in your mind so that when you're playing..your mind should already know and understand what to do. The best players in the world plays instinctively....they just understand and know what they are doing...but to get to this point...they have build up enough reference in the minds so that everything becomes automatic. I believe the goal of any systems is to cut your learning curve so that it doesn't take you 10 years to get to a certain level...instead it might take you 2-3 years.

Locally, when I show some of the players that plays in my local tournament my reference systems...I can see their game progress over the years. Whether that through them practicing or just better insight into the game...it helps them to get the the next level faster in their development.

Good Luck.
Duc.

 

[obclassicut]

Aiming systems provide some people with many potential benefits. Also, some "aiming systems" are simply (or mostly) purposeful "pre-shot routines," which can be helpful to most people. For more info, see:

benefits of "aiming systems"
pre-shot routine resource page​

"Diamond systems" for aiming kick and bank shots are very different from cut shot "aiming systems." People who have trouble with kick and bank shot accuracy and consistency can certainly benefit from "diamond systems." For more info, including illustrations and video demonstrations, see:

bank and kick shot "diamond system" resource page​

Regards,
Dave

Nice link, that has all of the aiming systems on one page. In my opinion BHE is a joke unless you do not have much experience in pool,( adjust for squirt and swerve with your feed forward process) . Almost all of my misses are due to trying to use center ball and not succeeding so i think my stroke needs a little tuning. When using draw, english, and follow i rarely miss. All though i will say i wish i knew of these systems 10 years ago, haha. i might have developed my game a little faster. SO thanks everyone, i can play pool without that shit taking space in my memory for now, haha. I think if people spent more time playing and less time with shortcuts we would have a better field of shooters around the country. My goal to improve now is table time and improved memory. SO i will research how to improve memory for years to come!!!!