TAR 30, and the winner is...

TATE

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
The table.

I am not really trying to be funny. As a viewer you could just feel the table was playing tighter than ever on a TAR match. Two champions and nobody even ran a 3 pack.

My only explanation is Shane and Darren have been playing too much on generously pocketed tournament tables and they weren't sharpened up for a tight table. A tight table will challenge you to make shots that are a lot more difficult than they look. Blocking balls are larger and even simple looking banks and combos are deceivingly difficult. Slight positional errors are magnified. A few missed easy shots and nerves are frayed.

This was an ugly match. Don't get me wrong - I prefer to see these matches played this way. I just wish it were a closer match. Derby City and those 10 footers are going to be a real challenge - can't wait. This table was playing like a 10 footer I would say.
 
Yeah I have mixed feelings about watching matches on a table that tight. On one hand I enjoy it because there is no such thing as a sure out. I think that adds an element of suspense. However I also think it fundamentally changes the way the game is played. Cheating pockets becomes extremely difficult, patterns change, and sometimes I feel that good but not perfect shots get punished. Not sure if that's good or not.
 
After seeing a lot of events with smaller pockets I have finally come to the conclusion that there may be to many shots taken away.I think the table is to tight.

This is today's opinion and may change tomorrow.

Congrats Shane!
 
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JMuck said:
After seeing a lot of events with smaller pockets I have finally come to the conclusion that there may be to many shots taken away.I think the table is to tight.

This is today's opinion and may change tomorrow.
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I have to agree with you JMuck,nobody watches golf to see the pro's miss putts or baseball to see players strike out every time,we want to see the hole in ones or home runs!
 
I much prefer tighter tables. It's good to see these guys get frustrated missing and how they handle it.

As far as derby, the 10ft table will play a lot easier then this TAR table. The 10 fts in Tunica played rather easy with like 4.5" pockets. I shot some balls on it.

The TAR table is awesome, it is made for all types of pool games. Good one pocket table for sure.
 
10 ftr

I played on the 10 footer in Tunica for several hours. It took balls well and I believe will be easier than a real tight 9 ft. Playing position is tougher because of how careful to not leave bridge shots, and places you can't reach to jump etc but that only mattered a little
 
Well, this is after all the same table that Shane put down a 7 pack on. I could agree about the table and both Shane and Darren echoed your sentiment Chris, but on the other hand these guys, and especially Shane, did run out some tough racks with some great great shots in there. Shane's kicking was great.

While they both missed shots that were unexpected I guess I would say that it's more of mental thing rather than the equipment being too tough on them. I would like to believe that the guy who can run packages on that table and the guy who used to run out on tight English bar tables and who says his high break in snooker is a 145 aren't intimidated by the pockets here.

Then again, if they say the table was playing tough then they ought to know. Reminds me of the ancient proverb, be careful what you wish for because you might get it.
 
I didn't watch most of it. 75% (at least) of the shots missed would have gone on that table before it was covered. Something was changed when it was recovered. I saw both players shoot balls in the corners at slow speed and they came right out. I think 4 1/8" pockets are great on a 9' Diamond the way they played before, but these are not the same as they were. Johnnyt
 
I dunno, the balls that rattled never looked close to doing anything else... I didn't see any balls stay up that I really felt should have gone.

I saw several routine runs end when players overran shape. Their CB travelled too far, resulting in cuts that were just too thin to be 100% makeable anymore. Very very rarely was any shot under-hit.

If the table's at fault here I think it's because the week-old cloth kept carrying shots an extra foot or three beyond their planned position.
 
CreeDo said:
I dunno, the balls that rattled never looked close to doing anything else... I didn't see any balls stay up that I really felt should have gone.

I saw several routine runs end when players overran shape. Their CB travelled too far, resulting in cuts that were just too thin to be 100% makeable anymore. Very very rarely was any shot under-hit.

If the table's at fault here I think it's because the week-old cloth kept carrying shots an extra foot or three beyond their planned position.
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It's true that the cloth was fast, but top players find the speed on any table fast. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
I didn't watch most of it. 75% (at least) of the shots missed would have gone on that table before it was covered. Something was changed when it was recovered. I saw both players shoot balls in the corners at slow speed and they came right out. I think 4 1/8" pockets are great on a 9' Diamond the way they played before, but these are not the same as they were. Johnnyt
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The table is going to be far easier right now being recovered, then say after the cloth is worn in.

DAZ missed balls because he hits balls a lot more firm then SVB, DAZ uses a lot of center ball and power. No good on this size pockets, theres no forgiveness.

SVB has a power game but spins and finesses balls ALOT more then DAZ, these pockets will accept a ball hit a little slower with English on it. You can skin the rail and make it still. On the other hand DAZ style the same shot will not go.

I play on a Diamond tighter then this, and it works the exact same way. It does not accept power pool well. You must have a full pocket to power most balls. DAZ was powering them when they were slightly off the rail, that's the biggest no-no there is.

But the TAR table is awesome. It's perfect.
 
It's kind of like watching golfers playing in the us open. Sometimes they make the course INSANELY tough that even the bet golfers in the world can't score. I don't find it fun to watch the best in the world look like a bunch of hackers..same with pool. You want the table to be tough but fair.
 
JumpinJoe said:
The table is going to be far easier right now being recovered, then say after the cloth is worn in.

DAZ missed balls because he hits balls a lot more firm then SVB, DAZ uses a lot of center ball and power. No good on this size pockets, theres no forgiveness.

SVB has a power game but spins and finesses balls ALOT more then DAZ, these pockets will accept a ball hit a little slower with English on it. You can skin the rail and make it still. On the other hand DAZ style the same shot will not go.

I play on a Diamond tighter then this, and it works the exact same way. It does not accept power pool well. You must have a full pocket to power most balls. DAZ was powering them when they were slightly off the rail, that's the biggest no-no there is.

But the TAR table is awesome. It's perfect.[/]"The table is going to be far easier right now being recovered, then say after the cloth is worn in"

Yes, it should be easier for awhile...but it's not. Johnnyt
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JB Cases said:
Well, this is after all the same table that Shane put down a 7 pack on. I could agree about the table and both Shane and Darren echoed your sentiment Chris, but on the other hand these guys, and especially Shane, did run out some tough racks with some great great shots in there. Shane's kicking was great.

While they both missed shots that were unexpected I guess I would say that it's more of mental thing rather than the equipment being too tough on them. I would like to believe that the guy who can run packages on that table and the guy who used to run out on tight English bar tables and who says his high break in snooker is a 145 aren't intimidated by the pockets here.

Then again, if they say the table was playing tough then they ought to know. Reminds me of the ancient proverb, be careful what you wish for because you might get it.
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The TAR table don't have the same rails on it now that it had when Shane ran 2 6 packs, and a 7 pack. Them rails were Fatboy's rails with 4 1/8" pockets, same size as what's on the TAR table today but...the difference is Fatboys pocket angles were 140 miters, and the rails on the TAR table today are 141 miter angles, meaning....the pockets on Fatboys rails are an 1/8" wider at the back of the throat than what they just played on. That little bit of a difference is what makes or breaks a shot going in the pocket at pocket speed with a slight angle;)

Glen
 
TATE said:
The table.

I am not really trying to be funny. As a viewer you could just feel the table was playing tighter than ever on a TAR match. Two champions and nobody even ran a 3 pack.

My only explanation is Shane and Darren have been playing too much on generously pocketed tournament tables and they weren't sharpened up for a tight table.
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According to poster Jumpin Joe, who tracked the TAR 30 match in THE Action Room, in Saturday's play, Shane had three break and runs and Appleton had zero.

That's 3 break and runs in 42 racks played, or about a 7% break and run rate for two of the three best in the world (Orcullo, of course, being the third). One would expect more than that on a 4 1/2 inch pocket table if two "B" players raced to 25.

In my view, calling the Diamond 4 1/2" tables they typically play on (and will play on at the Derby nine ball event) generous is mistaken. The TAR studio table is simply too tight and, as happened on this occasion, can make even top players look unaccomplished (you may remember that when Raj Hundal and Oscar Dominguez, two fine players, played on this table, they combined to miss what seemed like 1,000,000 shots).

Kudos to TAR for presenting two of the game's superstar's, but statistically, they did not play top level pool.

Your assessment that the table was the real winner is dead on.
 
01rkclassic said:
I have to agree with you JMuck,nobody watches golf to see the pro's miss putts or baseball to see players strike out every time,we want to see the hole in ones or home runs!
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Yet pro golfers play on the toughest courses that would make most any other golfer rip their hair out and professional baseball players face the best pitchers in the world with wooden bats instead of aluminum such as in college.

Let them play on the tough equipment long enough and they'll adjust. No need for some of the bucket tables you see on televised tournaments where they can almost hit the first diamond and still make the shot.
 
vapoolplayer said:
Let them play on the tough equipment long enough and they'll adjust. No need for some of the bucket tables you see on televised tournaments where they can almost hit the first diamond and still make the shot.
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Top golf events make the holes long, the rough tough, and there are lots of trees. Each of these additional challenges is comprehensible to even the most unaccomplished golfer, for they face the same issues when they play, meaning long approaches, obstructed shots, and bad lies in the rough. It's just that amateurs face these challenges less often than the pros. To golf's credit, however, golf has never made the error of making the hole 10% smaller in some of its events, which would make the game unfamiliar as well as less exciting for its viewers. Unfortunately, pool does make this mistake.

Making the elite look mistake prone by the standards of amateurs accustomed to better from their favorite professional players is not, in my opinion, how you sell your sport.
 
realkingcobra said:
The TAR table don't have the same rails on it now that it had when Shane ran 2 6 packs, and a 7 pack. Them rails were Fatboy's rails with 4 1/8" pockets, same size as what's on the TAR table today but...the difference is Fatboys pocket angles were 140 miters, and the rails on the TAR table today are 141 miter angles, meaning....the pockets on Fatboys rails are an 1/8" wider at the back of the throat than what they just played on. That little bit of a difference is what makes or breaks a shot going in the pocket at pocket speed with a slight angle;)

Glen
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Thank you for your input. Johnnyt
 
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