Should the TAR table stay as is or go to standard pockets? You choose.

[cardiac kid]

The players of today, would beat the players of yester-year. Like every sport, the players of today have gotten better. The same way Tiger is better than Jack. New technology and equipment, plus the internet lets information flow at a much higher pace is making the players today better. Your short stops of today would pry beat or break even with 90% of the pro's from way back when.

To answer your question, Earl still can play at that rhythm, the other guys, who knows, but Shane, Alex, JA, etc can all still roll at that rhythm.

jason,

Perhaps Mike Sigel was right. Lets put that really nappy slow cloth back on the tables (IPT) and see what happens. Add to that a set of clay balls. Once jokingly told Greg Sullivan both Simonis 860 and Diamond Pro tables were ruining the game. Making it too easy for good players to run racks. I truely said it in jest but there is some truth.

Disagree with your comment about the new(er) players being better. Give Wimpy a day to practice on the new equipment and he'd still be one of the best if not the best out there. I believe that is the real difference between good and great. The ability to adjust to conditions. JMHO.

Lyn

 

[DTL]

.....................

 

[RoadHustler]

I like it

I think I have bought 6 or 7 tar matches and the Earl and Shane on the 10 foot table dvds thanks btw. I they have been awesome. Imo I enjoy seeing the legends of our time sweat. If I wanted to see people run out every rack on a easy table I could tape myself playing on my bar box with giant home model pockets. I have 5 or 6 150 ball runs on dvd from accustats and those are great and also have their place in my heart. What I love about tar is how real it is. It's It's tough and just to get on the show you have to be hof bad ass, and it doesn't stop there. TAR is where the real test begins. Long races and if you start to crack there is no hiding it by the end. Everyone can see who was the better player. Don't turn tar into the straight pool dinner...

 

[kvinbrwr]

Why do people keep comparing golf to pool? This is pool folks not golf

If they were the same thing there would be nothing to "compare". That's the point of comparison, taking 2 different items and contrasting them against each other in order to understand them each better.

 

[Matt]

One other variable that is being over looked in this conversation is the origin of pressure. Where does pressure come from? It's a really interesting dynamic I think.

On the really tight tables, it's almost like the players aren't even concerned with each other's play. In the recent match, I imagine when Darren (and Shane for that matter) was shooting he wasn't really worried that if he missed, he was going to be in his chair for an extended period of time. He wasn't worried that Shane was going to run out the set on him, or put up a 10 pack. He was more worried about the table swallowing him up. Of course, I'm just mind reading here so play along for a second. He wasn't experiencing the same feeling Irving Crane felt when he played Mosconi, or vice versa -- that's different.

So where does pressure come from? Is it the table or the opponent? Recently in the TAR matches I feel like it has solely been the table and we are missing that dynamic of fear of the opponent. Fearing what your opponent is going to do you can make even a 4.5 inch pocket seem smaller....I think.

Bottom line for me is - in a lot of these TAR matches it's felt more like 2 different matches occurring on the same table: Player A vs. the Table & Player B vs. the Table. When the tables are easier and the races are longer it feels more like man vs. man.

Excellent point. Furthermore, I don't enjoy the table being the star of the show. For me, the attractions of the TAR matches are the head to head match-ups and the extended races.

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

I dont really believe the difference in Shane running a seven and not is one mitre degree. I dont know tables as well as some but I know that guy pretty good. When Shane has played bad it was because he wasnt confident. Usually because his break wasnt working not because he was missing balls.

I have a theory that has proven itself enough times that I give it some weight and that is: guys tend to play to the level of their competition. Shane and Alex get up there and play lights out against each other. Shane and Dennis had the most amazing 8 ball set I have ever seen. This past weekend both guys struggled....and both continued to struggle. All on the same size pockets. I chalk it up to the fact that at the elite level the game is 90% mental.

I could be wrong but I dont think I am.

Great post Justin.

IMO these guys just had an off weekend. I'm not sure we should knee jerk and switch based on one struggling match.

My personal opinion? I don't really care - and I didn't vote. The 1/8" dictates a significantly different (more demanding and strategic) game than the 1/2". I enjoy watching both.

Some posts say that looser pockets will appeal to more viewership and generate more $. If you REALLY believe that Justin, then I think you have your answer.

 

[3RAILKICK]

As a consistent TAR subscriber, given only one choice, I vote for 4 1/8. (My preference might be 4 1/4 though.) As a viewer, I would rather see stellar shot making, than shot decisions defaulting to safety play because of the difficulty of the pockets.

Justin-I think viewers want to see top players put all their skills on display. If the players are reluctant to take the big risk/reward shots because of the pocket size-then we don't get to see as good a match-imho. Player input may have a role in this pocket size decision, as well. Viewers probably want to see a match where players are not scared of corner pocket shots. (can you share any pocket size preferences mentioned by the pros?)

Please consider the 4 1/4 pockets as a write in candidate in the poll.

(btw-I think I heard you say that Daz and SVB had been practicing on that new-cloth table for a couple of weeks before the match-was there as much head shaking in practice as in the match?) Actually, I like the head shaking every once in a while.

Whatever you decide, I'll still watch. If you round up the players, I'm there...as a subscriber.

This thread just confirms your commitment to providing TAR subscribers with the best possible package of top players competing on first rate equipment.

Thanks

 

[Jaden]

They don't have any 4.25" rails....

Justin gave the two choices because they already have rails that are 4and an 1/8" and 4.5"....

They aren't going to have new rails made for 4.25"....

Jaden

 

[Doc Holliday]

Just to add, I didn't mean to come off as insulting to anyone in my previous post. I personally would get robbed against the ghost in that game and tend to think most posters in this thread would too. Those of you that can win, good on ya, but I just think it's silly to say the pros are so good they need tougher conditions when we can't even play on the current tables. I love watching a top player when they can really catch a gear, not shoot every shot scared. It changes the dynamic of the game, particularly rotation. If we keep making it increasingly harder eventually Shane and Darren will look like apa players out there. If you guys wanna watch someone duck 5 times a game and miss straight in shots I will play somebody on a stream lol.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

I'd leave them as-is. Both players are playing on the same table, same conditions and having the tighter table will prove who the strongest player is, both ability-wise and mentally.

When players bet their own, bet it with the conviction that the pocket size doesn't matter.

Otherwise, someone like SVB might run over someone and then that someone might say, "Yeah, but only because the pockets were tight. If they were 4.5" pockets I could have won that match."

Yeah, but if the pockets were 8", it'd be a coin-flip no matter who played.

Who wants that? If you think you're better than the next guy, you're betting that means you're better at the hardest conditions possible. Otherwise, if that's not what you're saying --- you're not really better than that person. End of story, I think. Bigger pockets = "equalizer" and that's not the spirit of TAR. The spirit of TAR is "determining separation."

Dave

 

[Doc Holliday]

Yeah, they aren't betting their own though

 

[nb92]

4.125 was my vote... if 4.25 is a choice ... maybe....

At the US Open 9 Ball I asked Busti about the TAR table... he said "....man.. toughest table I have played on... " I also asked Earl the same question "... aaaahh... it is a frig'in Bar Box...." LOL

Daz said that if any part of your game is off this table is going to show it!

That is what championship pool should be about.. If DCC, Tunica, or the US Open events moved to these rails the event length would have to be doubled... or the fields cut in half...

I would love to see the US Open 1pkt held with these rails in play....

I can see them play on easy tables every month... TAR is special... and I like that...

 

[john schmidt]

I have been doing this long enough to have a pretty good idea about what actually sells.

Some things I know from experience:

Every 14.1 fan on earth posts on AZ. All fifty of them.

Only half the one pocket fans post on AZ. There are one hundred of them.

On any given weekend half of both groups will not be able to watch anything no matter who is playing.

With the exception of one tournament a year, the US Open 1 Pocket which is a decent seller but features many of the best players in the world and not just two guys. 1 Pocket and 14.1 simply do not sell in the numbers it takes to break even on a stand alone event and they are the weakest selling individual formats in all arounds. Yet they always get a high a number of posts asking for them.

People always want to see Busty, Efren, Orcollo, Yang and others who do not get to the States much. I want to see them too and we make every effort to put things together when they are in the country. Having a bunch of people post "I want to see Efren play Orcollo an all around of 14.1, 1 pocket and 8 ball" doesn't really tell me anything simply because it probably wont ever happen.

Many things people say they want I can not say definitively "We will do that." because there are so many outside factors. One thing I can control is something like the pocket size which is why I put up a poll about that and not asking what match everyone wants to see.

Just trying to explain things from my point of view.

theres more people in new york alone who have heard of and play 14,1 then have heard of and pay to watch anything on tar.
theres more people in southern states too who play onehole then have ever heard of tar.
now to say those people dont want to pay to see tar means many different things but it isnt that that few play those games.
i think people would rather go play pool then pay to sit and watch it.
pool is boring to watch but fun to play. the same can be said for many activities.
not your fault its just how it is.

 

[JumpinJoe]

The TAR table is perfect.
It needs to be tighter then the norm. as we are not dealing with the STANDARD rail bangers from this forum on there.

World class players play there. 4.5" is just a joke for them to play on.

theres more people in new york alone who have heard of and play 14,1 then have heard of and pay to watch anything on tar.
theres more people in southern states too who play onehole then have ever heard of tar.
now to say those people dont want to pay to see tar means many different things but it isnt that that few play those games.
i think people would rather go play pool then pay to sit and watch it.
pool is boring to watch but fun to play. the same can be said for many activities.
not your fault its just how it is.

That is true.
It is hard to have a tour anymore in Houston, why, because EVERYONE hear plays one picket now. And there is an ass load of players in this town.
One Pocket is the game.

I like all games by the way. And watch all Tar events. But One pocket is the game.

 

[CreeDo]

Fruit at the end of the match

In other news, Justin's take on the lack of runouts being psychological is probably the right answer. I'm going to run with that one. Because if that's true, no matter what happens with the table.. it's win/win. We should see some impressive packages on any type of equipment, as long as the players have their mind 100% in the game.

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

theres more people in new york alone who have heard of and play 14,1 then have heard of and pay to watch anything on tar.
theres more people in southern states too who play onehole then have ever heard of tar.
now to say those people dont want to pay to see tar means many different things but it isnt that that few play those games.
i think people would rather go play pool then pay to sit and watch it.
pool is boring to watch but fun to play. the same can be said for many activities.
not your fault its just how it is.

If there were a way for the audience to legitimately place bets, the interest would skyrocket. Obviously, current law forbids this but perhaps with poker making the turn, pool could follow?

 

[CreeDo]

While we're at it, which way did you vote Mr. Schmidt?

 

[vapoolplayer]

theres more people in new york alone who have heard of and play 14,1 then have heard of and pay to watch anything on tar.
theres more people in southern states too who play onehole then have ever heard of tar.
now to say those people dont want to pay to see tar means many different things but it isnt that that few play those games.
i think people would rather go play pool then pay to sit and watch it.
pool is boring to watch but fun to play. the same can be said for many activities.
not your fault its just how it is.

Agreed. Despite how great a game pool is, its own existence is why it will never take off the way pool players would like. Its not logistically, financially, appealing plausible to be much more than it is now.

 

[imissedthe9]

Omg please don't go back to 4.5 that's so big. Just cause these C players want to watch run outs.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Yeah, they aren't betting their own though

You're right.. a huge majority don't, but some do.

When TAR decides to run a two man tournament and put up the cash, the players can play on a table with Russian pyramid-cut pockets for all they care.

I'd rather watch the best golfers in the world struggle to break +2 on a tough course than fire 63s on a cosmo course.

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