Mike Dechaine's aiming system

[JB Cases]

Only those not Geometrically Challenged, it would seem.

Dale

Funny thing about geometry is that it doesn't have much in the way of wiggle room. Geometric methods of aiming are perfect on paper but not always easy to estimate, guess, or even measure accurately. And even being a little off with the estimation means missing the shot for a lot of players.

I have tried this method and I personally can't do it consistently. I see the merit in it but for me it's not resonating.

John - geometrically challenged. I wouldn't know 90 degrees if someone walked face first into my shoulder.

 

[robsnotes4u]

Mike needs to change

He needs to change his aiming method because it sure didn't work last night against SVB on the "big" pockets he said were easy. Lol

 

[RunoutJJ]

Let me ask you this?? WHO CARES!!!! Everybody has their own shitstems!! Just because Johnny Archer uses a certain method doesnt mean its a cure all for your aiming woes. Yes I agree that it can help a great deal but don't you think you should aim like how all the pros learned?? Its like what tip do you use?? Or what diamater is your shaft??

Sorry Im on the rag today but Ive had it up to my eyeballs with the stupidity that runs across this board. Look at the contact point account for throw, follow or draw and practice. HAMB is the only way to get better PERIOD!!

 

[JB Cases]

Let me ask you this?? WHO CARES!!!! Everybody has their own shitstems!! Just because Johnny Archer uses a certain method doesnt mean its a cure all for your aiming woes. Yes I agree that it can help a great deal but don't you think you should aim like how all the pros learned?? Its like what tip do you use?? Or what diamater is your shaft??

Sorry Im on the rag today but Ive had it up to my eyeballs with the stupidity that runs across this board. Look at the contact point account for throw, follow or draw and practice. HAMB is the only way to get better PERIOD!!

Well, just a pro does it doesn't mean it's no good either.

I can only take this to leatherworking. The HAMB method applied to leather working looks like this. Grab some leather and some tools and mess up thousands of dollars worth of material until you are good.

Um sorry, but that's just not how it works. Leather working like most crafts has a fine and long tradition of apprenticeship and learning by copying the methods of others.

Pool is no different. Every player that shows any effort is rewarded with getting help from better players. If you accept instruction of any kind from any player then why is it not ok to accept instruction in the form of being informed about what a pro player does from that player himself?

You say HAMB is the only way? OK, let's do this, you take a total beginner off the street and give them a cue and a table for one month with no instruction at all.

I will take a beginner and give them to Stevie Moore for two weeks. After the two weeks my player will not be allowed to touch a cue for the rest of the month.

At the end of the month both players will play for $20,000. What side do you want to bet on?

It's not fair to call people stupid who are only interested in learning. If none of this mattered then no one would talk about it.

 

[Maniac]

Let me ask you this?? WHO CARES!!!!

Obviously, a LOT of people do, as the aiming threads invariably turn out being some of the longest threads on these forums.

I'm like you. I don't really care, either. I am self-taught, use my own way to aim, and would be a formidable foe on the green felt if not for the fact that I didn't start shooting pool seriously (instead of semi-yearly recreationally) until I was 53 years old. By then my bad eyesight, two bad shoulders, chronic back spasms, degenerated discs in my neck, and now recently, my left knee (just below the kneecap) has started hurting me. I have a wobbly stroke that I cannot seem to be able to correct, and THAT is the reason for most of my misses (of makeable shots).

If I stroke through the cueball correctly, my aim is NEVER an issue. It's usually my eyes that fail me.

Maniac

 

[pdcue]

Funny thing about geometry is that it doesn't have much in the way of wiggle room. Geometric methods of aiming are perfect on paper but not always easy to estimate, guess, or even measure accurately. And even being a little off with the estimation means missing the shot for a lot of players.

I have tried this method and I personally can't do it consistently. I see the merit in it but for me it's not resonating.

John - geometrically challenged. I wouldn't know 90 degrees if someone walked face first into my shoulder.

Once again - nothing to do with using Geometry. Do you know of
anyone who uses Geomentry to aim?

As I said before - I doubt I could ever make a ball using this method -
and I'm probably well above average in ability to visualize. However,
the validity, or lack thereof, has nothing whatsoever to do with whether
or not you can do it...or me.

Dale

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Do you know of anyone who uses Geometry to aim? ...

Yes, I know someone who uses geometry on even more shots than I do. He knows that a 23-degree cut requires a 39/64th-full hit, and he knows how to calculate from angles relative to the cushions what the angle of the cut is.

But as JB sort of said, every time you think about the 90-degree kiss line (tangent line) you are using geometry. On some shots part of my aiming is by that 90-degree path where I send the cue ball because I know if I send the cue ball in the right direction, the object ball has to go in the right direction. I happen to have learned carom billiards at the same time I was learning pool and in that game you learn where the cue ball is going and how to send it where you want.

 

[LAMas]

There are some that find value in various aiming systems.

I was asked a question so may I share the answer.

When aiming CP to CP using the cue/stick while standing and with the stick on the bed of the table, one needs to get the stick to move parallel to that line CP to CP to the center of the CB.

If one from that position/stance, while standing, just drops down on the shot with the tip and bridge now with the tip aimed at the center of the CB, there will be a ~1 degree error to the outside of the exact aim line depending on where you pivot.

If you hold the stick straight out at arms length from the sholder and rotate from that pivot point or axis to the center of the CB, the error will be less than 1 degree when one drops down.

If one uses the grip hand on the butt of the cue to pivot by moving the bridge to the center of the CB (FHE) while standing, the error will be a bit more than 1 degree.

The one degree error is not all that significant when the desired cut angle is thick, but is significant when the cut angle is thin and the separation between the CB and OB is great for the 1 degree error for the CB is sent on that path that progressively is away from the intended CP to CP.

So while standing, one can move the bridge to the center of the CB (FHE) and then move the butt of the cut the same amount (1.125” for a 90 degree cut) and then get down on the shot and shoot.

Alternatively, when down on the shot, one can move the tip of the cue a bit beyond the center of the CB and the move the butt from the bridge until the tip of the cue is now aimed at the center of the CB and shoot. The amount of the tip shift past the center of the CB will depend on the distance between the CB and OB – less when the separation is great. Time at the table will determine for the shooter what that shift will be for 1 diamond separation vs. a 7 diamond separation etc..

If one tries this method of aiming, I recommend that he starts with the thin 90 degree shot with the stick aimed at the edge of the CB aimed at the edge of the OB until one finds what works best to achieve the parallel shift or tip offset and pivot to the center of the CB without missing contact of the edge of the CB to the edge of the OB.

‘Just answering the mail.

 

[RunoutJJ]

Well, just a pro does it doesn't mean it's no good either.

I can only take this to leatherworking. The HAMB method applied to leather working looks like this. Grab some leather and some tools and mess up thousands of dollars worth of material until you are good.
This is just plain silly to say

Um sorry, but that's just not how it works. Leather working like most crafts has a fine and long tradition of apprenticeship and learning by copying the methods of others. 100% correct about leather but not pool.. any joe smoe had pocket a few balls effectively. Its not as difficult as say craving a rose into leather.

Pool is no different Very different.

Every player that shows any effort is rewarded with getting help from better players. If you accept instruction of any kind from any player then why is it not ok to accept instruction in the form of being informed about what a pro player does from that player himself?
Never said anything about being taught from anybody let alone a professional.

You say HAMB is the only way?
HAMB to me is learning through trial and error so yes HAMB is the only way.. You can talk your face off to somebody or show them this and that but they need to EXUCUTE IT!! therefore HAMB comes into play.

OK, let's do this, you take a total beginner off the street and give them a cue and a table for one month with no instruction at all. I will take a beginner and give them to Stevie Moore for two weeks. After the two weeks my player will not be allowed to touch a cue for the rest of the month.

At the end of the month both players will play for $20,000. What side do you want to bet on? This made me L-O-L :lol:

It's not fair to call people stupid Never called anybody stupid bro

who are only interested in learning. If none of this mattered then no one would talk about it.

I highlighted everything for you so I didnt miss anything or main points or even points that were never made. You follow me??

 

[RunoutJJ]

You know what has geometry?? A coffe cup, a table, a toothpick and even a fork. Yes there is a mathematical equation for pretty much everything on this planet. Therefore everything has geometry even pool.

I like it when I break out a protractor in the middle of a match. If I dont know the precise angle to hit a certain shot I may miss by 1/168 of an inch!!! If that happens I will definitely lose some sleep that night :frown:

 

[LAMas]

The contact point on the OB and the contact point on the CB can be described and diagramed by geometry.

The line from the contact point on the OB and the contact point on the CB can be described and diagramed by geometry.

The line parallel to that CP to CP line to the center of the CB can be described and diagramed.

One can put a thin tape from the CP on the OB to CP on the CB on the table and another tape that is parallel to the CP to CP tape line that is 1.125" (1/2 ball) away/to the side from the contact point on the OB and the contact point on the CB as described and diagrammed by geometry.

One can shift the tip of the cue to the side of the center of the CB a bit and then rotate from the Bridge back to the center of the CB and shoot.

The fractional shift will depend on the brdge distance behind the CB and the diameter of the Cue tip. Then one must adjust for english to compensate for CIT and applied english to achieve shape.

 

[Gerry]

You know what has geometry?? A coffe cup, a table, a toothpick and even a fork. Yes there is a mathematical equation for pretty much everything on this planet. Therefore everything has geometry even pool.

I like it when I break out a protractor in the middle of a match. If I dont know the precise angle to hit a certain shot I may miss by 1/168 of an inch!!! If that happens I will definitely lose some sleep that night :frown:

It's actually much easier then most people think...I NEVER used systems til I hit a plateau and had trouble improving. I aim with the left and right edge of the CB, and cut the OB into 4 pieces....center, and 1/4's.....thats it for 95% of my shots.... hers how I do it...

>>> https://vimeo.com/home/myvideos

have fun

G.

 

[CJ Wiley]

the most important thing is always what kind of "feel" do you have

Funny thing about geometry is that it doesn't have much in the way of wiggle room. Geometric methods of aiming are perfect on paper but not always easy to estimate, guess, or even measure accurately. And even being a little off with the estimation means missing the shot for a lot of players.

I have tried this method and I personally can't do it consistently. I see the merit in it but for me it's not resonating.

John - geometrically challenged. I wouldn't know 90 degrees if someone walked face first into my shoulder.

Yes, the good news is you don't need geometry (unless your describing angles), the most important thing is always what kind of "feel" do you have for your shots. Making the ball is important, however, it's not the most important thing, because you can make all shots and have no control of the cue ball and it's useless.

Whatever "aiming" or aligning system you prefer, just make sure you are concentrating on where you're hitting the cue ball once you're down on the shot. This is the SOURCE of your feel, you only direct connection to the game is through the tip/cue ball and hand/eye relationship.

Remember this and understand it because the key to anyone's game is through these "relationships". You must GET DOWN on the shot as if it's already been made and THEN absorb yourself into the shot. Geometry is great for describing angles, however it has very little to do with playing the Game. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[JB Cases]

Yes, I know someone who uses geometry on even more shots than I do. He knows that a 23-degree cut requires a 39/64th-full hit, and he knows how to calculate from angles relative to the cushions what the angle of the cut is.

But as JB sort of said, every time you think about the 90-degree kiss line (tangent line) you are using geometry. On some shots part of my aiming is by that 90-degree path where I send the cue ball because I know if I send the cue ball in the right direction, the object ball has to go in the right direction. I happen to have learned carom billiards at the same time I was learning pool and in that game you learn where the cue ball is going and how to send it where you want.

Everyone I know who learned carom billiards is a good pool player. This should be a prerequisite to learning pool.

 

[CJ Wiley]

the only option is "how" you choose to do this.

Once again - nothing to do with using Geometry. Do you know of
anyone who uses Geomentry to aim?

As I said before - I doubt I could ever make a ball using this method -
and I'm probably well above average in ability to visualize. However,
the validity, or lack thereof, has nothing whatsoever to do with whether
or not you can do it...or me.

Dale

No, I'm not aware of any players that use geometry to aim with. Of course we all use the description of angles to describe shots, but to make them?....I don't think you can play that way and have great touch or feel for the game....it's much too "left brain" to tap into your creative side, and that's the side that will be the definitive factor in playing your best.

You must align the angle/connection (of the cue ball to the object ball) when above the shot, and once you're down you better aim at the cue ball or no "aiming system," or geometry is going to matter. The Target is the Cue Ball, the cue ball is aligned/connected to the object ball....it's plain and simple, the only option is "how" you choose to do this.

 

[Ratta]

No, I'm not aware of any players that use geometry to aim with. Of course we all use the description of angles to describe shots, but to make them?....I don't think you can play that way and have great touch or feel for the game....it's much too "left brain" to tap into your creative side, and that's the side that will be the definitive factor in playing your best.

You must align the angle/connection (of the cue ball to the object ball) when above the shot, and once you're down you better aim at the cue ball or no "aiming system," or geometry is going to matter. The Target is the Cue Ball, the cue ball is aligned/connected to the object ball....it's plain and simple, the only option is "how" you choose to do this.

Imo using geometry (or kind of) concsiously is used, if you re in a difficult situation like if your opponent played safe, you re out of rythm, or what reason ever being unsure.
Then it can be a way to bring you back thinking positive, because *you know you re right*- Hope it makes sense by using my english

Systems are an often discussed theme- and for sure helpful in pressure situations. But once you re mentally worn out, ran out of gas etc. - you have to find a solution to come back in line. And my serious opinion is, that knowledge is real power: And here systems have their *big plus*.

lg
Ingo

 

[CJ Wiley]

alpha, rather than beta

Imo using geometry (or kind of) concsiously is used, if you re in a difficult situation like if your opponent played safe, you re out of rythm, or what reason ever being unsure.
Then it can be a way to bring you back thinking positive, because *you know you re right*- Hope it makes sense by using my english

Systems are an often discussed theme- and for sure helpful in pressure situations. But once you re mentally worn out, ran out of gas etc. - you have to find a solution to come back in line. And my serious opinion is, that knowledge is real power: And here systems have their *big plus*.

lg
Ingo

I'm just not a big fan of the conscious mind overcoming the unconscious in doing things like playing pool. There's many ways to look at this, however, I know from my own experience that getting in "dead stroke," or "the zone," is far superior in effectiveness.

Especially when someone's tired, that's many times when they will go into a deep trance. I used to win a lot of money gambling by staying even with someone until they went into this zone, and then pick up the pace.

Sometimes it was difficult to win at first because they would be playing a couple of balls better than their normal game. The downside for them is they wouldn't be able to quit when they started losing, especially after staying even for many hours.

Pool, to me is a way of self expression and at the highest levels the game will perform through the person rather than vise versa. This is done, as you know, in a state that the brain waves are in ]alpha, rather than beta.

 

[pdcue]

Yes, I know someone who uses geometry on even more shots than I do. He knows that a 23-degree cut requires a 39/64th-full hit, and he knows how to calculate from angles relative to the cushions what the angle of the cut is.

But as JB sort of said, every time you think about the 90-degree kiss line (tangent line) you are using geometry. On some shots part of my aiming is by that 90-degree path where I send the cue ball because I know if I send the cue ball in the right direction, the object ball has to go in the right direction. I happen to have learned carom billiards at the same time I was learning pool and in that game you learn where the cue ball is going and how to send it where you want.

I would not argue with the merit of any of the above, especially since
I do much the same thing myself, except for the 39/64ths part,
but, I don't think it constitutes using Geometry for AIMING.

IMHO - consideration of the path and resultant reaction of the CB should
be done before you aim.

I also play 3 Cushion with about the same degree of mediocrity as Pool.
Interesting idea about the OB will go right if the CB goes right - but do you
think it is accurate enough in pool?

This concept is a near constant factor in One Pocket where you often
'Play the Cue Ball' over 'Play to make the ball'.

Dale

 

[Ratta]

I'm just not a big fan of the conscious mind overcoming the unconscious in doing things like playing pool. There's many ways to look at this, however, I know from my own experience that getting in "dead stroke," or "the zone," is far superior in effectiveness.

Especially when someone's tired, that's many times when they will go into a deep trance. I used to win a lot of money gambling by staying even with someone until they went into this zone, and then pick up the pace.

Sometimes it was difficult to win at first because they would be playing a couple of balls better than their normal game. The downside for them is they wouldn't be able to quit when they started losing, especially after staying even for many hours.

Pool, to me is a way of self expression and at the highest levels the game will perform through the person rather than vise versa. This is done, as you know, in a state that the brain waves are in ]alpha, rather than beta.

Agree here with you-- but you re talking here *from your perspective* and expirience as a champion CJ. You also made material arts, and you played pool on world-class level. So you are *a bit different* than the most guys here (where you probably will agree with me, lol). And to be SOME DAY able to really get into the famous *zone*, you have to learn a lot- from *just banging* balls all the time, you ll for sure not get into the zone

 

[CJ Wiley]

controlling all three balls with a lot of creativity

Everyone I know who learned carom billiards is a good pool player. This should be a prerequisite to learning pool.

Caroms is something I make myself practice when training for a big money match. I play a game by myself where I try to carom the two balls and also send the first ball around to hit the cue ball again.

This really makes me get into controlling all three balls with a lot of creativity. I highly recommend this "training game" to anyone that wants to improve their touch and creativity.