Who wants to see CJ on TAR?

CJ on TAR

  • Yes

    Votes: 186 75.0%

  • No

    Votes: 62 25.0%
  • Total voters
    248
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There's no way we would have thrown 3k away

JAM said:
I'm not sure, but I seem to remember reading about this tournament on our forum. I did not go. But I think, subject to check, there was a ring game.

Dennis Orcullo got pissed off about somethning and walked out. James Walden was in the house. Did Shane McMinn win the whole shebang? I can't remember. Did you get invited to compete in this ring game, if there was one?
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I played in a ring game bar tournament, but it wasn't a 3k entry fee. I played a match or two, lost interest and got out. I was there to gamble with some people. There's no way we would have thrown 3k away unless I was trying to win the whole thing, but it was a stupid format.

I can't imagine too many players coming up with that much money for an entry fee. I've never seen it except the IPT was 1500 for a couple of tournaments, but they were giving away millions. I wasn't even playing pool back then, I just played in the US OPEN for entertainment, but I was running two multi million dollar nightclubs/pool rooms.
 
CJ Wiley said:
I played in a ring game bar tournament, but it wasn't a 3k entry fee. I played a match or two, lost interest and got out. I was there to gamble with some people. There's no way we would have thrown 3k away unless I was trying to win the whole thing, but it was a stupid format.

I can't imagine too many players coming up with that much money for an entry fee. I've never seen it except the IPT was 1500 for a couple of tournaments, but they were giving away millions. I wasn't even playing pool back then, I just played in the US OPEN for entertainment, but I was running two multi million dollar nightclubs/pool rooms.
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I know what you mean about the hefty entry fees. The DCC ring games, which are always a highlight, also used to have huge entry fees. Most, if not all, players couldn't afford the $2,000 and $3,000 entry fees, so they got backed. Some stakehorses had two and three players in the ring game sometimes.

I never did like the ring game format. I mean, you could stay benched, never getting a shot for an hour, depending on who you follow.

The ring games are fun for the railbirds, as they get to see their favorite players mixing it up, but for the participants themselves, you not only have to play your top speed, but you need a little luck. Sometimes the best player doesn't always win in a ring game. It's who you follow and what you were left to work with. :eek:

You're right. As far as ROI in ring games, the odds are better in other pool-related spots. :wink:
 
JAM said:
You have now crossed the line. I am going to refrain from posting what I think about the One Pocket Hall of Fame nominations and voting process because, as Alfie says, I want to keep it nice.

For you to make that statement, as if it was fact, that Ronnie and Keith didn't practice over 5 or 6 hours a day is a downright untruth, and as far as hot dogs and booze, you literally don't know what you're talking about.

You keep throwing Keith's name around on this fourm as if you know him. When I asked him who you were years ago, he had a hard time remembering your name, much less what your accomplishments are in the pool world.

As least Keith can post here and reply to you. As soon as he wakes up, I am going to let him read what you have written about him, and he can address your barbs.

JAM <---keeping it nice
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I can't believe that what you took as a slam, was actually a compliment to Keith...Have you ever HEARD of Babe Ruth ? or Ronnie Allen ?...You better wake Keith up, before you embarrass yourself any further... To put it in perspective for you, I guess I will have to explain it to you...(I should let John Barton do it, as I'm SURE he knew what I meant)...When you include someone with with two known icon's, (as I did Keith) it is a compliment.NOT a knock, or a 'barb'..I really don't know if Keith ever ate a hot dog in his life, or not..Is that what your upset about ? I DO KNOW, he's had a few beers !..:rolleyes:

For guy's like him or RA, to play as well as they did, as little as they practiced, is a testament to their natural talent, Just like the 'Babe' possessed..And, (unlike CJ) I admire that !..As for my HOF induction, I caught all your testy little, (barely concealed) jealous remarks, (on 1P.org), when you made them ! They didn't bother me then, and they REALLY wont bother me now that I've seen what you know about one pocket, and pool in general..?.. I do not want to waste my time 'flaming" with such an opinionated person, as you have proven yourself to be, Jen...So I'll just say, so long, and have a great life. And keep on thinking, that just because you know Keith, that you are a 'knowledgable' poster, on ANY pool forum ! If I were you, I wouldn't be posting unless he's by your side..You seem to make a lot of, well, 'loopy' remarks...(now THAT was a 'barb') :duck:

By the way, speaking of Keith, the reason he's not familiar with me, is because he was barely born, when I was a pretty decent player !..I have not seen him for 20 yrs., since Jay Helfert's 1993 LA open. I had just retired from UPS, as Jay will attest to..If you ask him, he may also tell you that I got by Cornbread, Danny Medina, and a few others, before bowing out !...Keith may remember me as the one who staked Ronnie, when RA broke him playing one pocket..He had just made a good score, and it was a pretty good beat...I stayed under wraps, but he could have gotten the same game from me, with almost surely the same results..I have only been around him a few times, and we've never had a hard word..But I'm sure you can stir something up !...That seems to be YOUR best game !

News Flash; Alfie Taylor is my longtime best bud, (he also voted for me)..So I "kept it nice" :wink:

Adios Jen

PS..Oh, and say hi to Keith for me..:)
 
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JAM said:
I know what you mean about the hefty entry fees. The DCC ring games, which are always a highlight, also used to have huge entry fees. Most, if not all, players couldn't afford the $2,000 and $3,000 entry fees, so they got backed. Some stakehorses had two and three players in the ring game sometimes.

I never did like the ring game format. I mean, you could stay benched, never getting a shot for an hour, depending on who you follow.

The ring games are fun for the railbirds, as they get to see their favorite players mixing it up, but for the participants themselves, you not only have to play your top speed, but you need a little luck. Sometimes the best player doesn't always win in a ring game. It's who you follow and what you were left to work with. :eek:

You're right. As far as ROI in ring games, the odds are better in other pool-related spots. :wink:
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I hate ring games.....I'd rather play one handed golf on a snooker table.
 
SJDinPHX said:
I can't believe that what you took as a slam, was actually a compliment to Keith...Have you ever HEARD of Babe Ruth ? Ronnie Allen ?...You better wake Keith up, before you embarrass yourself any further... To put it in perspective for you, I guess I will have to explain it to you...(I should let John Barton do it, as I'm SURE he knew what I meant)...When you include someone with with two known icon's, (as I did Keith) it is a compliment.NOT a knock..I really don't know if Keith ever ate a hot dog in his life, or not..Is that what your upset about ? I do KNOW he's had a few beers..:rolleyes:

For guy's like him or RA, to play as well as they did, as little as they practiced, is a testament to their natural talent, Just like the 'Babe' possessed !..As for my HOF induction, I caught all your testy little, (barely concealed) jealous remarks, (on 1P.org), when you made them ! They didn't bother me then, and they REALLY wont bother me now that I've seen what you know about one pocket, and pool in general..?.. I do not want to waste my time 'flaming" with an opinionated person, such as you have proven yourself to be Jen...So I'll just say, so long, and have a great life. And keep thinking, because you know Keith, that you are a 'knowledgable' poster...on ANY pool forum ! :rolleyes:

By the way, speaking of Keith, the reason he's not familiar with me, is because he was barely born, when I was a pretty decent player..I have not seen him since Jays 1993 LA open (I had just retired from UPS, as Jay will attest to)..If you ask him, he may also tell you that I got by Cornbread, Danny Medina, and a few others, before bowing out) ...Keith may remember me as the one who staked Ronnie, when RA broke him playing one pocket..He had just made a good score, and it was a pretty good beat...I stayed under wraps, but he could have gotten the same game from me, with the same results..I have only been around him a few times, and we've never had a hard word..But I'm sure you can stir something up !...That seems to be YOUR best game ! :o (Alfie Taylor is my longtime bud,..so I "kept it nice" :wink:

Adios Jen

PS..Oh, and say hi to Keith for me..:)
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Thank you for the respectful reply post. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts. FWIW, I had a strong passion for pool long before I met Keith, and I actually used to play, much to your surprise, I'm sure. :D

What you wrote here in this thread was not very nice: #5 A very nice lady, who all too frequently, enters (uninvited) into topic's, which were 'old news' when her better half was a teen-ager.

Maybe you were trying to be funny at my expense and Keith's. :(

I'm going to take the high road with you and apologize for my words that were offensive to you. I was angry when I wrote it.

Adios, Dick.
 
CJ Wiley said:
I didn't play in this tournament....and I have never refused to be on streaming video, so I have no idea what you're talking about. You said a 3000. ring game....I have never paid 3k for a tournament in my life..... WTF are up talking about???
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After thinking about it CJ its entirely possible I have my years mixed up in that maybe it was 2008 and not 2007. One thing I dont have mixed up is how you made us feel like we were somehow robbing from the players. You did play in that ring game one of those years. If you like I can dig around and prove it.

Edit to add: CJ is right and I am wrong. He was not there in 2007 he was there in 2008. Fair is fair and I mixed up the events. I did not mix up what happened.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=124937&highlight=olathe+ring+game
 
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JAM said:
Holy Pool Payout, Justin Bergman won $21,500 for first place in a ring game? :eek:

I may have to change my mind about ring games. :o

A lady can change her mind, right? :D
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Those ring games Dan Tull did were great. Shane McMinn won the first one for over $20K. They were brutal events to play in though. Guys were playing non stop all day long.
 
JCIN said:
Those ring games Dan Tull did were great. Shane McMinn won the first one for over $20K. They were brutal events to play in though. Guys were playing non stop all day long.
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I forgot about that debacle ...and you're trying to blame me for something, I got out of the tournament when I saw what was happening...it was a brutal fiasco and Dan Tull didn't know, and I'm sure he would never have allowed it to happen. No wonder I blocked that out of my mind, what a disgraceful display of injustice to Dennis O.
 
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Jam, you are a living doll...

JAM said:
I believe it benefits those in business to get along with everybody. I recently worked on a project pertaining to success in business and what distinguishes one company from another who sell the same product.

It is important to maintain *and* develop or even establish relationships, and instead of saying "thank you," the advice is to respond to your clients how much you really enjoy doing what you're doing, even if the customer you are serving sucks. When you relay that you love what you are doing, it influences customer attitude. Customers want to work with those who exhibit a positive demeanor.

When the threads get a little heated, I see C.J. maintaining his composure. To me, he seems to enjoy what he's doing, and by exhibiting a positive demeanor, it does influence how I feel about him. I don't care about TOI or his instructional DVDs he has for sale that has people up in arms. I enjoy reading his posts because of his upbeat attitude. I especially enjoy the vintage pictures and pool tales. To each their own.

Would I want to see C.J. compete today? Sure, I would. I like his style. I guess he influenced my attitude by staying positive, even when under attack. :)
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Your posts and critique on various posts are always fair, intellegent and spot on. It's difficult to impossible to pass up a comment that comes from JAM. I adore you without knowing you. (Don't kill me Keith)

As far as CJ (my very good friend) is concerned, I'll drop a little knock. If any of the other champions keep messing with him, sooner or later they will come out the Belmont way. For, as the rest of us take life's natural course and age right along, Mr. Wiley has learned to turn back the clock. Look closely.

Now, people are probably saying "That old Alfie has gone nutty" but, just you watch: He knows of what he speaks.
Keep it scientific. Alfie
 
JAM said:
Holy Pool Payout, Justin Bergman won $21,500 for first place in a ring game? :eek:

I may have to change my mind about ring games. :o

A lady can change her mind, right? :D
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Yes but the entry fee was $3000 per man. Notice that SVB got $5000 for 4th place. I assume that nothing was paid lower than 4th.

Total payout for the top four $53,000.

Divided by 3k leaves us with 49 entries plus $1000 left over.

So 49 people put up $3k and the 4th place guy didn't even double his money.

Maybe that's why it wasn't continued. As a fan I liked the format but as a player I probably would not have put that much up to win so little. In the World Series of Poker the entry fee is 10k but first place is in the millions.

2010 WSOP

This year, over 7,300 people entered the World Series of Poker main event, making it the second-largest ever with a prizepool of $68,798,600!

The 7.319 hopeful poker players will have to outlast almost 90% of the field to get any of their money back, but those lucky few who make the final table will get at least $811,823 for their many days of hard work. Read more to find out how much the champion will take home when this year's WSOP is done.

2010 World Series of Poker Main Event Payout Structure

1st place: $8,944,138
2nd place: $5,545,855
3rd place: $4,129,979
4th place: $3,092,497
5th place: $2,332,960
6th place: $1,772,939
7th place: $1,356,708
8th place: $1,045,738
9th place: $811,823
_____________________________________
 
JB Cases said:
Yes but the entry fee was $3000 per man. Notice that SVB got $5000 for 4th place. I assume that nothing was paid lower than 4th.

Total payout for the top four $53,000.

Divided by 3k leaves us with 49 entries plus $1000 left over.

So 49 people put up $3k and the 4th place guy didn't even double his money.

Maybe that's why it wasn't continued. As a fan I liked the format but as a player I probably would not have put that much up to win so little. In the World Series of Poker the entry fee is 10k but first place is in the millions.

2010 WSOP

This year, over 7,300 people entered the World Series of Poker main event, making it the second-largest ever with a prizepool of $68,798,600!

The 7.319 hopeful poker players will have to outlast almost 90% of the field to get any of their money back, but those lucky few who make the final table will get at least $811,823 for their many days of hard work. Read more to find out how much the champion will take home when this year's WSOP is done.

2010 World Series of Poker Main Event Payout Structure

1st place: $8,944,138
2nd place: $5,545,855
3rd place: $4,129,979
4th place: $3,092,497
5th place: $2,332,960
6th place: $1,772,939
7th place: $1,356,708
8th place: $1,045,738
9th place: $811,823
_____________________________________
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Sadly pool will never have enough "dead money" in the prize fund to give massive odds on your winnings vs entry. :(
 
John - in the WSOP, and all poker tourneys, they take out money. It is by shear number of contestants buying essentially a lottery ticket that the prize pools get so great.

In the 2008 ring game. I could have staked Justin but like a dumb jockey I switched horses and staked Jesse. I think most players were staked. I paid for Jesse hotel room, entry fee and staked him afterwards when he didn't cash in the ring game to play Joey Gray one pocket - a game Jesse is definitely not the favorite in. The next 4 times I saw Jesse he didn't even acknowledge I was in the room with him, let alone say hello or even look in my direction. I guess like CJ and many a pool player, he knows how to burn bridges. (On my IPad or I would insert a burning bridge pic here).

I got even for the weekend though. I also had 15% of Shane McMinn entry and emptied out what I had left in my pockets on Justin to beat Shane in the race to 21 finals.
 
vapoolplayer said:
Sadly pool will never have enough "dead money" in the prize fund to give massive odds on your winnings vs entry. :(
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I agree and disagree.

Pool HAS a huge field of players already playing the game who could fund a pro tour that they could earn their way into. Make it so that every league player who wins their division gets a pro-card and you will have thousands trying each year.

Take $1 per week from each league player and you have enough money to fund and run a pro tour with great payouts.

A lot of those poker entries come from smaller tournaments or a tournament series where the first prize was the entry into the main event.

Pool COULD be doing this now but we collectively have our heads so far up our asses that simply refuse to cooperate to make the game bigger. Put it on tv and give the amateurs a way to compete with the pros and watch what happens. Pipe Dream though - will never happen.
 
JB Cases said:
Yes but the entry fee was $3000 per man. Notice that SVB got $5000 for 4th place. I assume that nothing was paid lower than 4th.

Total payout for the top four $53,000.

Divided by 3k leaves us with 49 entries plus $1000 left over.

So 49 people put up $3k and the 4th place guy didn't even double his money.
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I want to say there around 20 some players the year Bergman won it. Dan added $5K that year as well. The tournament was always billed as a 32 man field but it never came close to filling. I think there were 18 the first year that McMinn won.
 
watchez said:
John - in the WSOP, and all poker tourneys, they take out money. It is by shear number of contestants buying essentially a lottery ticket that the prize pools get so great.

In the 2008 ring game. I could have staked Justin but like a dumb jockey I switched horses and staked Jesse. I think most players were staked. I paid for Jesse hotel room, entry fee and staked him afterwards when he didn't cash in the ring game to play Joey Gray one pocket - a game Jesse is definitely not the favorite in. The next 4 times I saw Jesse he didn't even acknowledge I was in the room with him, let alone say hello or even look in my direction. I guess like CJ and many a pool player, he knows how to burn bridges. (On my IPad or I would insert a burning bridge pic here).

I got even for the weekend though. I also had 15% of Shane McMinn entry and emptied out what I had left in my pockets on Justin to beat Shane in the race to 21 finals.
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I hear you but I think you know what I mean that the reward for finishing high is way greater in poker tournaments and as such brings in a lot more entrants.
 
watchez said:
John - in the WSOP, and all poker tourneys, they take out money. It is by shear number of contestants buying essentially a lottery ticket that the prize pools get so great.

In the 2008 ring game. I could have staked Justin but like a dumb jockey I switched horses and staked Jesse. I think most players were staked. I paid for Jesse hotel room, entry fee and staked him afterwards when he didn't cash in the ring game to play Joey Gray one pocket - a game Jesse is definitely not the favorite in. The next 4 times I saw Jesse he didn't even acknowledge I was in the room with him, let alone say hello or even look in my direction. I guess like CJ and many a pool player, he knows how to burn bridges. (On my IPad or I would insert a burning bridge pic here).

I got even for the weekend though. I also had 15% of Shane McMinn entry and emptied out what I had left in my pockets on Justin to beat Shane in the race to 21 finals.
Click to expand...

If we burn bridges by refusing to cheat then those bridges don't lead anywhere. We need bridges that unite one another in positive ways, not the same old road that has proven to lead to nothingness. Business is about building and creating. 'The Inner Game is the Teacher' It's time for CLASS!
 
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