Pro Pool players courting disaster

[nathandumoulin]

Yea!!!

Back on topic.

How about a solutioon that will allow the players to choose where they play without a date conflict! Now they are not 'in the middle'.

Please see Post #473.

Mark Griffin

Mark, I foresee several problems with this proposed solution, but I'm the producer. My crew runs the most aspects of the league, but this is not one of them. If you want your offer to be taken seriously, how about making a phone call to the guy in charge (Larry). This is a private matter, and proposing this directly to me on a public discussion forum is rather silly.

 

[Scaramouche]

ESPN is owned by Disney and is wildly profitable.
It makes its money with live events.
The viewer wants to see what is happening right now, not what happened last week, last month, last year, last decade, or last century.
The viewer is not able to skip the ads of a live show, therefore ESPN commands premium ad rates.

Anything not live competes with TV shopping for space.

 

[jay helfert]

Mark, I foresee several problems with this proposed solution, but I'm the producer. My crew runs the most aspects of the league, but this is not one of them. If you want your offer to be taken seriously, how about making a phone call to the guy in charge (Larry). This is a private matter, and proposing this directly to me on a public discussion forum is rather silly.

Whatever you do Nathan, don't tell Larry!

 

[Fatboy]

Please dont call ja rite now....

Just call up Larry and talk to him, he's a reasonable guy, or talk to Johnny Archer, I'm sure he would be a great liaison between you and Larry. I'm pretty sure Larry doesn't even read this Forum.

I think you can hit the Bonus Ball building with a 3 Wood from the TAR building, just set up a meeting and "Get -R- Done". :thumbup:

Right now Johnny don't want to talk to ANYONE!!!! I talk to him damn near everyday and he is sick and tired of everyone calling him with bullshit, looking for answers to questions he dont have the answer to, or dont want to answer right now. He is burned out a little. He is in Vegas playing to be ready, he said he is playing good. So thats good, But rite now it ends there with JA he is a player and there for the rest of the players-NOT THE BUSINESS SIDE OF THINGS!!! i'm just the messenger. I know who has called hin, left messages etc and he aint calling anyone of ya back not right now. he is too stressed. so please lay off that plan, ja aint gonna save pool, he dont owe anything to pool. nuff said. i'm his friend plane and simple, we dont even talk much about pool, we talk about our familys and things like that. i know him very well and now is a bad time to bother him,. thanks you.


On the $13,000 topic, thats a stand up thing Mark, always respect you. however thats just covers Larrys ass, what about the players who have to cover their additional costs to do both? just a thought. dont answer to me, i dont really care, its not my problem, it's a start for sure, its to bad this decision wasnt made months ago, it seems like a response to a problem more than a offer to fix things. Cooperation starts early. That sounds like a knock i know but its not, its a good offer. Larry should respond someway some how, its just a bit late.


i hope it all works out, i have no horse in the race (thank god) i have enough problems. Barry Hearn dont seem to have these problems, perhaps looking at what he does mite be a good idea.


"I'm looking for a teacher"

 

[Fatboy]

ESPN is owned by Disney and is wildly profitable.
It makes its money with live events.
The viewer wants to see what is happening right now, not what happened last week, last month, last year, last decade, or last century.
The viewer is not able to skip the ads of a live show, therefore ESPN commands premium ad rates.

Anything not live competes with TV shopping for space.

ESPN also is very bad about paying their bills, they are not the solution. the REAL solution is a new sports network in America, ESPN is horrible anyways.

 

[cleary]

Try telling an investor that they should spend 5-figures to help someone that they've never met because "its the nice thing to do".

This is a small industry and you've already burnt bridges being shady in the past, I hope bonusball works out for you cause you might run out of people to do business with if this comes crashing down.

 

[cleary]

Mark is offering to pay 13k, so what about my wages i will now not get for these weeks off work, and the other staff.. Are you going to pay this as well????

Or is that OK as long as you get what you want, there is more to this than meets the eye . And at the end of the day the players then still have a lot of expenses with so little making a profit.

Thought you worked at Burger King or something???

 

[pooler]

So - here is a solution: Since you stated the 'cost' of this 'courtesy' is $13,000 in potential lost rent revenue.

I WILL PAY THE $13,000

(As a disclaimer, this offer will not stand indefinitely).

Mark Griffin, CEO
CSI - BCAPL - USAPL

RESPECT !!! Full Stop :thumbup:

 

[Fatboy]

i live by this, read it and think about it:


IN ORDER FOR YOU TO HAVE THINGS YOU NEVER HAD BEFORE, YOU HAVE TO BE WILLING TO DO THINGS YOU NEVER DONE BEFORE.

that can be experiences, material things, success in biz, anything. Point is that logic applies to people, businesses, industries and life in general. Its not a guarantee of success of failure. It just means you do the same ole shit (SOS) you have the same life.


how that fits in here, i'm not sure. it might raise a idea in someones mind that ends up with a solution, and it might go unnoticed- sadly in pool it will most likely go unnoticed ,


good luck
eric

 

[Poolshootindon]

Pool Is Dieing

Seems every week I hear about another Pool Hall closing its doors.

Where I play there are more people playing the Poker machines than there are playing a game of pool.

The only clicking sound is someone taping on the poker machine to start a new game.

Maybe Bonus Ball will be successful and all the Pro's can make the living that they seem to think is owed to them because "I am a Pro Pool Player".

I will not hold my breath.

Being a casual player of the ponies I do know how to read a racing form.
The past performances of "pool" in this race will not lead me to think this is a good bet.

Longshots do win occasionally and sometimes they go on to be champions.

Only time will tell...

Don

 

[Nostroke]

Seems every week I hear about another Pool Hall closing its doors.

Where I play there are more people playing the Poker machines than there are playing a game of pool.

The only clicking sound is someone taping on the poker machine to start a new game.

Maybe Bonus Ball will be successful and all the Pro's can make the living that they seem to think is owed to them because "I am a Pro Pool Player".

I will not hold my breath.

Being a casual player of the ponies I do know how to read a racing form.
The past performances of "pool" in this race will not lead me to think this is a good bet.

Longshots do win occasionally and sometimes they go on to be champions.

Only time will tell...

Don

I have never heard a pro player express that they are owed a living. It is more us player/fans that believe they should somehow be better compensated for their skills. JMHO

 

[Fatboy]

I have never heard a pro player express that they are owed a living. It is more us player/fans that believe they should somehow be better compensated for their skills. JMHO

that's right, and should have been said long ago-very well said.

 

[watchez]

Maybe Bonus Ball is trying to be competitive with the status of pool today because they want these players all to themselves. What if a player leaves Bonus Ball for a week and goes and wins $15K or $25K? Will he come back to play a game with the orange, purple and black balls? Pool players are notorious for only living for 5 minutes ahead in their lives. Knowing this, Bonus Ball wouldn't want any of their players leaving to maybe experience something better even for just a short while. Keeping them on lockdown with the schedule that Nathan has come up with does just that.

And you are right Fatboy, the disfunctional ABP will not save pool.

I'm hot for teacher.

 

[Poolshootindon]

Owed a Living

I have never heard a pro player express that they are owed a living. It is more us player/fans that believe they should somehow be better compensated for their skills. JMHO

From a consensus of threads I have read it seems to me that they do think just that.

Why is it that Pool always seems to struggle?

Look at the NBA, NFL, Major league basball,etc.

They are all succesfull. Athletes make huges sums of money.

What makes them different?

My guess would be that each of the leagues mentioned above had internal meetings and said what can we do to make this even better.

And you know what. They have been successful.

Maybe it is just not meant to be for Pool.

Time will tell. But the hour glass is just about empty.

Don

 

[Fatboy]

Maybe Bonus Ball is trying to be competitive with the status of pool today because they want these players all to themselves. What if a player leaves Bonus Ball for a week and goes and wins $15K or $25K? Will he come back to play a game with the orange, purple and black balls? Pool players are notorious for only living for 5 minutes ahead in their lives. Knowing this, Bonus Ball wouldn't want any of their players leaving to maybe experience something better even for just a short while. Keeping them on lockdown with the schedule that Nathan has come up with does just that.

And you are right Fatboy, the disfunctional ABP will not save pool.

I'm hot for teacher.

i know this might be hard to believe but I don't know much about the ABP, i know JA is involved with it, but we never talk about it. I know it was put together to try and ensure the players got paid, it worked one year and didn't last year for Shane-beyond that i am clueless about it. i dont want to know about it.

 

[Nostroke]

From a consensus of threads I have read (hundreds), it seems to me that they do think just that.

Why is it that Pool always seems to struggle?

Look at the NBA, NFL, Major league basball,etc.

They are all succesfull. Athletes make huges sums of money.

What makes them different?

My guess would be that each of the leagues mentioned above had internal meetings and said what can we do to make this even better.

And you know what. They have been successful.

Maybe it is just not meant to be for Pool.

Time will tell. But the hour glass is just about empty.

Don

well just copy and paste some of the pro players expressing this in some of those hundreds and hundreds of threads-I think maybe 8-10 quotes from different players should prove your point. 98% of people including pool players want more money from their work but being "owed a living" is something entirely different'. I Imagine in your job, if you lobbied those underneath you to vocally shout for more pay for you-I bet it would be pretty quiet-for me too but most player/fans support more $$ for Top pros- What does that say? No one is shouting for more pay for Alex Rodriguez either.

 

[Fatboy]

From a consensus of threads I have read (hundreds), it seems to me that they do think just that.

Look at the NBA, NFL, Major league basball,etc.

They are all succesfull. Athletes make huges sums of money.

What makes them different?

Don

they have large audiences, the larger the audience the more $$ is involved. The players make noting compared to the owners. Kobe makes say $25,000,000/year, Doctor Buss(RIP) who was his employer makes much more than that.

And if you look globally the NBA NFL and MLB are small time, F-1 is world wide, thats money. and Football(soccer) is much bigger than "our" sports in america.

Go look on youtube at pool videos at the total number of views and then look at other sports, people don't watch pool. cant get $$$ where there aint a audience. unless you create that audience. so i'll repeat what I said before Barry Hearn has built huge audiences for snooker, getting TV contracts in Asia the past 3 years, why dont the people in the pool biz look to that market?

If I was to get in the pool biz it would be geared up 100% for that market, America offers nothing. Sad but true.

 

[one stroke]

From a consensus of threads I have read (hundreds), it seems to me that they do think just that.

Why is it that Pool always seems to struggle?

Look at the NBA, NFL, Major league basball,etc.

They are all succesfull. Athletes make huges sums of money.

What makes them different?

My guess would be that each of the leagues mentioned above had internal meetings and said what can we do to make this even better.

And you know what. They have been successful.

Maybe it is just not meant to be for Pool.

Time will tell. But the hour glass is just about empty.

Don

All the above leagues are sports not games they require the best athletes in the world to be played at a high level
They are also what's considered a part of American history

Pool does not even scratch the surface of one team in any sport as far as fan followings
Let alone the whole league take the worst team in pro sports and it will dwarf the entire pool fan base

1

 

[CJ Wiley]

Try watching JUST THE BALL without the players for a few minutes and you'll see .....

they have large audiences, the larger the audience the more $$ is involved. The players make noting compared to the owners. Kobe makes say $25,000,000/year, Doctor Buss(RIP) who was his employer makes much more than that.

And if you look globally the NBA NFL and MLB are small time, F-1 is world wide, thats money. and Football(soccer) is much bigger than "our" sports in america.

Go look on youtube at pool videos at the total number of views and then look at other sports, people don't watch pool. cant get $$$ where there aint a audience. unless you create that audience. so i'll repeat what I said before Barry Hearn has built huge audiences for snooker, getting TV contracts in Asia the past 3 years, why dont the people in the pool biz look to that market?

If I was to get in the pool biz it would be geared up 100% for that market, America offers nothing. Sad but true.

And you do have to create that market with a visionary. Golf had Palmer and Poker had one too that I was just made aware of. As a matter of fact I'm going to go back and read about him, it was sent to me by a New York Sportswriter that I've done quite a bit of business with in the past. His insight was one of the best, and wrote for Billiards Digest for a few years. Michael Geffner is his name and he was one of the premiere sportswriters in the country.

The main thing that is proven to work it developing characters that the public can get emotionally attached to. This is often done systematically using professionals that work with actors in plays, movies, and TV Sitcoms. All games are equally boring, however, with creative marketing, advertising and character development games like baseball, football, and golf seem exciting now.

Try watching JUST THE BALL without the players for a few minutes and you'll see ALL the Games and Sports are boring. Ironically when you watch JUST THE BALLS in the game of pool it's actually better than any of the rest. We just can't try to get by on "just the balls" any longer, it's the human interest that's the biggest entertainment "hook" and that's what will eventually make the pool's interest rise again, ie: Fats, Paul Newman, Tom Cruise, Miz, etc.

 

[Fatboy]

And you do have to create that market with a visionary. Golf had Palmer and Poker had one too that I was just made aware of. As a matter of fact I'm going to go back and read about him, it was sent to me by a New York Sportswriter that I've done quite a bit of business with in the past. His insight was one of the best, and wrote for Billiards Digest for a few years. Michael Geffner is his name and he was one of the premiere sportswriters in the country.

The main thing that is proven to work it developing characters that the public can get emotionally attached to. This is often done systematically using professionals that work with actors in plays, movies, and TV Sitcoms. All games are equally boring, however, with creative marketing, advertising and character development games like baseball, football, and golf seem exciting now.

Try watching JUST THE BALL without the players for a few minutes and you'll see ALL the Games and Sports are boring. Ironically when you watch JUST THE BALLS in the game of pool it's actually better than any of the rest. We just can't try to get by on "just the balls" any longer, it's the human interest that's the biggest entertainment "hook" and that's what will eventually make the pool's interest rise again, ie: Fats, Paul Newman, Tom Cruise, Miz, etc.

Let me restate it in a better way, I think the path of the best opportunity is Asia, yes America is still probably a viable market but with the same effort more $$$ could be made in Asia than here. So Do you want to work for minimum wage or make $10,000/week for the same job.

ESPN sucks and is THE network in America, in Asia you have a much larger fan base and more networks to a deal with. America is too small and not a pool culture the way it has been developed in Asia the past(however many years).

Thats a clearer explanation of my thoughts,

"Asia is the future of the Game"<------sad but true IMO

best
eric