Pro Pool players courting disaster

Poolshootindon said:
From a consensus of threads I have read (hundreds), it seems to me that they do think just that.

Why is it that Pool always seems to struggle?

Look at the NBA, NFL, Major league basball,etc.

They are all succesfull. Athletes make huges sums of money.

What makes them different?

My guess would be that each of the leagues mentioned above had internal meetings and said what can we do to make this even better.

And you know what. They have been successful.

Maybe it is just not meant to be for Pool.

Time will tell. But the hour glass is just about empty.

Don
Click to expand...

Those sports are already so well established in our culture and schools system that they are not a good comparison to pool. Bowling comes to mind as a better comparison and it appears it is in a similar situation to pool.

The topic of pools popularity is Asia looks like a the biggest current opportunity for growth. Growing the sport in Asia will help it grow here in the US.
 
"No matter how dirty your past is, your future is always spotless."

Fatboy said:
Let me restate it in a better way, I think the path of the best opportunity is Asia, yes America is still probably a viable market but with the same effort more $$$ could be made in Asia than here. So Do you want to work for minimum wage or make $10,000/week for the same job.

ESPN sucks and is THE network in America, in Asia you have a much larger fan base and more networks to a deal with. America is too small and not a pool culture the way it has been developed in Asia the past(however many years).

Thats a clearer explanation of my thoughts,

"Asia is the future of the Game"<------sad but true IMO

best
eric:):)
Click to expand...

"No matter how dirty your past is, your future is always spotless."

The "future" is called the future because no one knows for sure what it holds in store. We can guess all we want, but no matter how you slice it the future is never certain. Taxes and Death are the only exceptions that I've ever heard of.

Pool to me is like a chain of restaurants that serve hamburger in the United States and call it steak, rib eye, filet mignon, porterhouse, but it's only hamburger.....everyone complains that it doesn't taste like steak, doesn't look like steak and it's overpriced.

When someone that has had steak before walks into these restaurants they know immediately that they are serving hamburger and telling everyone it's steak. They marvel at how they've got away with deceiving people for so long by just telling them they're serving steak, and they're really just serving hamburger.

Now, there's several things someone can do, you can complain that the steak is really hamburger, you can refuse to eat it because you know the difference, you can try to urge the manager to start buying streak and no longer serve hamburger.

Or you can start your own restaurant and KNOW you will get a lion's share of the existing market AND create a whole new market right away with the superior "Steak product". I'm referring to the production, not the game.

'The Game is the Teacher'

"What we need to know about the past is that no matter what has happened, it has all worked together to bring us to this very moment. And this is the moment you can choose to make everything new, right now". - Unknown Author
 
Last edited:
Poolshootindon said:
From a consensus of threads I have read (hundreds), it seems to me that they do think just that.

Why is it that Pool always seems to struggle?

Look at the NBA, NFL, Major league basball,etc.

They are all succesfull. Athletes make huges sums of money.

What makes them different?

My guess would be that each of the leagues mentioned above had internal meetings and said what can we do to make this even better.

And you know what. They have been successful.

Maybe it is just not meant to be for Pool.

Time will tell. But the hour glass is just about empty.

Don
Click to expand...

Playing at top pro speed is a lot harder than most people give it credit for. Maybe if there was more money in pool at the top you would see more top young players make it to the top. I've always said that if we could get enough top players that a east, west, north, and south league could be started. Start with 6 teams in each of the 4 league areas. Only way pool will get on TV IMO is for fans to have 4 guys or 3 m 1 f from their area that they get to know (promote, promote) and root for. To me this is the ONLY thing BB has going for it and I don't think that's enough. Johnnyt
 
Sports

one stroke said:
All the above leagues are sports not games they require the best athletes in the world to be played at a high level
They are also what's considered a part of American history

Pool does not even scratch the surface of one team in any sport as far as fan followings
Let alone the whole league take the worst team in pro sports and it will dwarf the entire pool fan base

1
Click to expand...

Here is one defintion of Sports.

an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

So what your sayings is that Tennis,Golf,Billiards are not a Sport?

Don
 
Fatboy said:
they have large audiences, the larger the audience the more $$ is involved. The players make noting compared to the owners. Kobe makes say $25,000,000/year, Doctor Buss(RIP) who was his employer makes much more than that.

And if you look globally the NBA NFL and MLB are small time, F-1 is world wide, thats money. and Football(soccer) is much bigger than "our" sports in america.

Go look on youtube at pool videos at the total number of views and then look at other sports, people don't watch pool. cant get $$$ where there aint a audience. unless you create that audience. so i'll repeat what I said before Barry Hearn has built huge audiences for snooker, getting TV contracts in Asia the past 3 years, why dont the people in the pool biz look to that market?

If I was to get in the pool biz it would be geared up 100% for that market, America offers nothing. Sad but true.
Click to expand...

Did you ever stop and think for a second that may very well what bonus ball is planning on doing? Only complete idiots what invest a shit load of money creating a new pool game and try to market in America.. In the U.S. you are competing against MLB, NFL, NBA, PGA, NHL, NASCAR etc. etc. Those are long established sports and they ALL play better on T.V. than pool INCLUDING bonus ball. Those other countries do not have the amount of major sports we do over here competing for sponsor money.. Can you imagine the marketing director for Budweiser or Pepsi etc. walking into his boss and saying.." instead of putting our money into the NFL lets put it into POOL!!" like Donald Trump says... YOUR FIRED!!
 
Pool doesn't promote it's self, it takes real people to produce and market the Game

thebighurt said:
Did you ever stop and think for a second that may very well what bonus ball is planning on doing? Only complete idiots what invest a shit load of money creating a new pool game and try to market in America.. In the U.S. you are competing against MLB, NFL, NBA, PGA, NHL, NASCAR etc. etc. Those are long established sports and they ALL play better on T.V. than pool INCLUDING bonus ball. Those other countries do not have the amount of major sports we do over here competing for sponsor money.. Can you imagine the marketing director for Budweiser or Pepsi etc. walking into his boss and saying.." instead of putting our money into the NFL lets put it into POOL!!" like Donald Trump says... YOUR FIRED!!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what Bonus Ball's thoughts are on TV right now. I talked to them about helping with this department, and they didn't seem interested at the time.

From my experience Sports/Games are marketing vehicles for products like soft drinks, food items, car items, cars, and a variety of services. In other words the sports are simply used to capture the public's attention and the money is made from advertising. This is done effectively by creating sports stars and celebrities strategically so the fans have someone to connect to the sport or game. "People follow People"

For pool to get a "major sponsor" someone would have to introduce a comprehensive marketing plan to the potential sponsors and a similar plan to the TV networks. Although with the sponsor's involvement you can buy TV time, like you would buy commercials, it's more like "bulk" and I've done this on several occasion. I place 4 commercials a day on ESPN for 3 straight years with I had CJ's Billiard Palace in Dallas and it produced amazing results. We also produced 9 Pool TV Shows that aired on the Prime (FOX) Southwest to the region of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas.

If I'm not mistaken none of these marketing packages have been presented to any TV Networks since the 90s and if I'm wrong I'd like to see one. They MUST be professionally produced and presented accordingly. I have some of these marketing plans I used that I"m looking into revamping to present in the coming months.

Pool doesn't promote it's self, it takes real people to produce and market the Game to TV Networks and potential sponsors. There is certainly a right and a wrong way to go about this, however the effort is better than nothing because it will open up doors.

The Game is the Teacher.com
 
CJ Wiley said:
I'm not sure what Bonus Ball's thoughts are on TV right now. I talked to them about helping with this department, and they didn't seem interested at the time.

From my experience Sports/Games are marketing vehicles for products like soft drinks, food items, car items, cars, and a variety of services. In other words the sports are simply used to capture the public's attention and the money is made from advertising. This is done effectively by creating sports stars and celebrities strategically so the fans have someone to connect to the sport or game. "People follow People"

For pool to get a "major sponsor" someone would have to introduce a comprehensive marketing plan to the potential sponsors and a similar plan to the TV networks. Although with the sponsor's involvement you can buy TV time, like you would buy commercials, it's more like "bulk" and I've done this on several occasion. I place 4 commercials a day on ESPN for 3 straight years with I had CJ's Billiard Palace in Dallas and it produced amazing results. We also produced 9 Pool TV Shows that aired on the Prime (FOX) Southwest to the region of Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas.

If I'm not mistaken none of these marketing packages have been presented to any TV Networks since the 90s and if I'm wrong I'd like to see one. They MUST be professionally produced and presented accordingly. I have some of these marketing plans I used that I"m looking into revamping to present in the coming months.

Pool doesn't promote it's self, it takes real people to produce and market the Game to TV Networks and potential sponsors. There is certainly a right and a wrong way to go about this, however the effort is better than nothing because it will open up doors.

The Game is the Teacher.com
Click to expand...

Guess what CJ, if it's your idea then you should do it. Quit stalling and go for it! I want you to know I agree with you. :smile:
 
I do not post here much...haven't in years. I don't even play pool much anyone...once a month tops. I do love the game but this discussion is kinda old.

There is no money in pool. Its not a marketable game. People are doing other things. No one plays pool. The only way to even remotely think of getting the game to a marketable state is to get young people to play it. That takes countless of volunteer people across the country finding a way to bring pool to the youth and creating some sort of culture that values it as a sport.

Pool is in between a game and a sport and that hurts its marketability. There is really no niche for it. Sorry but its true.

Pool players who want to make a decent, consistent living playing pool are kidding themselves. It simply isn't going to happen for 99.9% of them. They knew this when they decided to be pool players...at least they should have. If they want to make a consistent, decent living then they should get a job.

You can't make pool marketable until it has a real market. Create a market for the game, sport whatever you want to call it and then you can worry about having successful pro tours and quality events with good sponsors.

Facts of life.
 
bomber said:
I do not post here much...haven't in years. I don't even play pool much anyone...once a month tops. I do love the game but this discussion is kinda old.

There is no money in pool. Its not a marketable game. People are doing other things. No one plays pool. The only way to even remotely think of getting the game to a marketable state is to get young people to play it. That takes countless of volunteer people across the country finding a way to bring pool to the youth and creating some sort of culture that values it as a sport.

Pool is in between a game and a sport and that hurts its marketability. There is really no niche for it. Sorry but its true.

Pool players who want to make a decent, consistent living playing pool are kidding themselves. It simply isn't going to happen for 99.9% of them. They knew this when they decided to be pool players...at least they should have. If they want to make a consistent, decent living then they should get a job.

You can't make pool marketable until it has a real market. Create a market for the game, sport whatever you want to call it and then you can worry about having successful pro tours and quality events with good sponsors.

Facts of life.
Click to expand...

The BCA should have focused on making pool an interscholastic sport decades ago. It could and would have worked. All those years chasing the Olympic dream were a waste of time and money!
 
I agree Jay. One big draw to any sport is that we played it when we were kids. Kids don't play pool...so why the hell would they watch it as an adult. I hate being negative but a dose of reality might do the pool world some good. Hell, I live in Louisville, a major pool town and no one here cares at all about pool.
 
It's like being the only Attorney in town, it's tough to get results without .......

jay helfert said:
Guess what CJ, if it's your idea then you should do it. Quit stalling and go for it! I want you to know I agree with you. :smile:
Click to expand...

It's like being the only Attorney in town, it's tough to get results without competition. That's why I want Bonus Ball to succeed, and I really wish someone else would do a successful TV Show as well. The Game will flourish with added public exposure. We will do one as well, however, we don't consider the summer to be the ideal "launching time" in pool. Typically, from out experience pool does much better in the winter months.

Without competition few businesses reach their full potential {and few people for that matter}, I know my pool game could only get to 80% practicing by myself. ;) 'The Game is the Teacher' and it teaches many students. :thumbup:
 
Last edited:
Well Said...But

jay helfert said:
The BCA should have focused on making pool an interscholastic sport decades ago. It could and would have worked. All those years chasing the Olympic dream were a waste of time and money!
Click to expand...

Jay.. All we have to do is change one word in your last sentence.

"All those years chasing the Pro Pool Players dream were a waste of time and money".

It would be very interesting to have a poll with the following questions.

1. Knowing what I know now I would still have chosen Pool as a profession.

2. I would not have chosen pool as a profession.

What percentage of Pro Pool players do you think actually made/saved enough money to sustain them in their golden years?

Not many I bet.

Don
 
College students are, despite how they act haha, are not kids. Pool is something to waste time doing for them. Going to the pool hall to bang around balls, take a date, have some beers, etc... is not going to get people excited about it as a real sport that they would really watch on tv. Pool is boring and we all know it.
 
Poolshootindon said:
Jay.. All we have to do is change one word in your last sentence.

"All those years chasing the Pro Pool Players dream were a waste of time and money".

It would be very interesting to have a poll with the following questions.

1. Knowing what I know now I would still have chosen Pool as a profession.

2. I would not have chosen pool as a profession.

What percentage of Pro Pool players do you think actually made/saved enough money to sustain them in their golden years?

Not many I bet.

Don
Click to expand...

I think there is a large portion that may say that, but would also struggle in a traditional career, and would either return to pool or poker or something along those lines.

Skills applied in the pool playing profession don't translate too well with standard careers, in my opinion.
 
boring as baseball.

bomber said:
College students are, despite how they act haha, are not kids. Pool is something to waste time doing for them. Going to the pool hall to bang around balls, take a date, have some beers, etc... is not going to get people excited about it as a real sport that they would really watch on tv. Pool is boring and we all know it.
Click to expand...

Pool could never be as boring as baseball. :yeah:
 
Last edited:
Are you kidding Dave? I've heard that comment a number of times...starting with Lou Butera saying it after he'd won a world championship. Most pro players live in the moment...i.e.: "what's in it for ME?...NOW, not 5 years from now!" Until they work together for a common goal, they, as a group, will stay in the same place they've been for decades...treading water! :rolleyes:

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Nostroke said:
I have never heard a pro player express that they are owed a living. It is more us player/fans that believe they should somehow be better compensated for their skills. JMHO
Click to expand...
 
MahnaMahna said:
I think there is a large portion that may say that, but would also struggle in a traditional career, and would either return to pool or poker or something along those lines.

Skills applied in the pool playing profession don't translate too well with standard careers, in my opinion.
Click to expand...

That's why you educate yourself and get new skills. I am quite skillful at doing lots of things, but that doesn't mean I use them at my profession.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top