Bogus Ball..from the start

[kvinbrwr]

he has a million hours of his time, so id say he has lots of skin in the game. which is what leads me to believe Rays very well worded assessment a few posts back. Ray said it best, a (at the preset time) broken dream. I really hope it does work out.

In the TV industry, where every joke has a mean-spirited edge, "hiatus" is a term for "cancelled but stalled announcement" and I'm way way way high up in the odds of this being the case with this hiatus, scam or no scam.

Hours are not dough. 75/25 LOL

Kevin

 

[Fatboy]

In the TV industry, where every joke has a mean-spirited edge, "hiatus" is a term for "cancelled but stalled announcement" and I'm way way way high up in the odds of this being the case with this hiatus, scam or no scam.

Hours are not dough. 75/25 LOL

Kevin

Hours can be $$$ in the form of opportunity cost, what he could have made doing something profitable??,,, during the past 5 years he has been working on BB.

as for actual cash-I have no idea, i'm sure some of his own to get the balls made by Saluc and programming the score board for the touch screen monitors etc and some early marketing, he rented space at the 08 US Open and had the game going there, then did the event in Canada which Busty beat JA in the final for $5,000 As I recall.


that word "hiatus" is sketchy in its nature, at least to me anyways. its very vague and used as you described.

If they said "were going dark in July for (insert specific reasons) and we weill be back Sept 1, after our vacation, have a nice summer" then I'd have a bit more hope....

 

[kvinbrwr]

Hours can be $$$ in the form of opportunity cost, what he could have made doing something profitable??,,, during the past 5 years he has been working on BB.

as for actual cash-I have no idea, i'm sure some of his own to get the balls made by Saluc and programming the score board for the touch screen monitors etc and some early marketing, he rented space at the 08 US Open and had the game going there, then did the event in Canada which Busty beat JA in the final for $5,000 As I recall.


that word "hiatus" is sketchy in its nature, at least to me anyways. its very vague and used as you described.

If they said "were going dark in July for (insert specific reasons) and we weill be back Sept 1, after our vacation, have a nice summer" then I'd have a bit more hope....

I get the whole time is money thing. However, regarding all that initial cash outlay, if it was his, that's one thing, if it was his investors, that's another, and if it was his investors with a skim that's a scam.

Kevin

 

[sopadre]

BB is dead as a legit business.
To all you dreamers who do not understand simple math and simple business,let me explain the problem in 5 grade language.No revenues=no business,high expenses+no revenues=disaster,low expenses+no revenues=slower disaster.BB has no revenues[no ppv, no gate].BB has shown people will not pay to see this game on the net or in person.How is BB going to get any revenues to pay the past due bills,the future bills,the investors,profit,etc???? Nobody has ever explained how to legitimately and with facts answer this question!!!WHY?? Because BB has no legitimate plan.Smoke and MIRRORS from the start.I have been waiting for anyone to explain the simple but critical question ;
HOW IS BB GOING TO GENERATE THE REVENUES NEEDED TO PAY EXPENSES AND BECOME A LEGIT BUSINESS?
We are not haters,we love pool,and we want pool to get better,not worse.We understand math,business and we are smarter than a 5 grader.




How is BB going to generate the revenue to pay the expenses and become a legit business??

 

[JCIN]

BB is dead as a legit business.
To all you dreamers who do not understand simple math and simple business,let me explain the problem in 5 grade language.No revenues=no business,high expenses+no revenues=disaster,low expenses+no revenues=slower disaster.BB has no revenues[no ppv, no gate].BB has shown people will not pay to see this game on the net or in person.How is BB going to get any revenues to pay the past due bills,the future bills,the investors,profit,etc???? Nobody has ever explained how to legitimately and with facts answer this question!!!WHY?? Because BB has no legitimate plan.Smoke and MIRRORS from the start.I have been waiting for anyone to explain the simple but critical question ;
HOW IS BB GOING TO GENERATE THE REVENUES NEEDED TO PAY EXPENSES AND BECOME A LEGIT BUSINESS?
We are not haters,we love pool,and we want pool to get better,not worse.We understand math,business and we are smarter than a 5 grader.




How is BB going to generate the revenue to pay the expenses and become a legit business??

You, like me, are just not smart enough to see the grand plan.

In a serious answer to your last question everyone with any knowledge of the pool market in the US knows they have no shot to generate the revenue to pay the current monthly expenses. Zero. None. Not one. Only way they keep the lights on in any way is other peoples money.

It seems some players have decided they are going to take over management and somehow do what is mathematically impossible. If every player and all the production staff worked for free for the rest of the season there is still a better than average chance they could not make enough money to pay the overhead on the studio.

Maybe if some of the players do take over they will learn some things. Like how writing checks is a lot harder than cashing them. Every time I explain what things cost to do an event to a player they get this glazed look in their eye. I hope they dig in and see how it works from the other side. If nothing else happens out of this mess maybe some learning will occur.

 

[JCIN]

i think Ray is right, a failed dream, the reason I think this is the case is Larry was at it too long for it to be a scam, usually in a scam you make a hit and run. Larry was at it far to long to fit the profile of a scam. He is too passionate about BB. Thats why I hedged on my previous posts and said "things in general terms, not implying BB is a scam". I dont read Larry that way at all, i have spoke to him several times and he didnt strike me as a bad guy at all. He IMO wants to build a new cue sport, thats his passion and dream, and I hope he can and does. However I dont think spending $50K/week is the way forward to do that.

I agree with you and Ray.

I think BB was a vanity project by a guy who had the ability to sell the dream to investors with no knowledge of the actual market they were buying in to.

It happens every day. Its a cornerstone of the nightclub, bar and restaurant industry it seems. This time it was just pool.

It wouldn't surprise me if a little got skimmed or ratholed along the way though. Human nature being what it is.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

I don't believe that Larry was a Scammer, he had a dream and like you said, most likely sold it to a few that weren't knowledgeable of how it works in the world of pool.

With the hopes or selling point of making Millions on PPVs and network TV.

With the BB Announcement pretty much blaming the contractors for their short fall of money, it would seem that they knew beforehand that they were only good for the first 6 weeks of play and they were talking about Season 2 at that time.

Some fast talking going on making the players believe that everything was A OK, all the while, someone had their fingers crossed on more or new investors money and a network deal that never took place within that time period.

Yeah, so the players got led down the garden path and they had no choice but to believe in what they were being told for their own good.

Just a possibility there. Now they know that maybe what they were hearing wasn't
all what it was cracked up to be.

 

[jay helfert]

You guys are now saying publicly what I was saying privately from the get go. I never liked it, especially when they decided to start right on top of existing events. I didn't like the smell of it from day one; the way the PR was handled (beyond amateur), the whole story about construction delays, the snub of everyone and anyone in the billiard industry, the pontificating about this great new game and how it would save pool. None of it made sense money wise or common sense wise.

When I found out that rich investors North of the border were funding it, it all began to make sense. The players were pawns in this scenario. They were necessary to make it all look good, the window dressing if you will. And the first ones to get screwed when it began to unravel (as in now!).

Some of them may think there is still hope for a completed first season, but I would call that the longest of long shots. If they all get paid what they are currently owed next week, I would call that a win for them. I don't know Larry and don't care to, but I've known many "Larry's" in my life. Men with a dream looking to fulfill it with other people's money. HELLO!

 

[kittykat]

That Barry guy screamed investor money and several companies formed to raise capitol which Fatboy confirmed smelled like fraud. He was bought-out and remains silent. He knew what this was all about. Before that, he begged players to listen and get the money put in escrow before starting because he knew the score. He told me that Larry has threatened to sue him and his family but he said he never was worried because everything he said was the truth. Including that Nathan knew all along there was money problems long before the launch. That truth got him banned from AZ. Looks like you should hunt him down Eric and I'm sure his story will floor you.

He said it was not a scam when they first started out but money and greed took over Larry Chiborak. Looks like he was right about everything. He told me he was going to play in the BCA's so maybe you will see him around Eric.

 

[joelpope]

Give me a dreamer...

Shorts and bears never built a damn thing, it is the longs and the bulls that make things happen and I would imagine at their best their rate of success is below 25%

In today's world you are going to be right more often than not predicting failure of a start up business or a new marriage but that doesn't make you smart.

Give me a risk taking dreamer any day rather than the "I knew it would never work crowd" that is crowing right now.

I supported BB by buying the season and would do so again in a heartbeat. If it is over, I will feel bad for the people who invested, the employees who lost work and the pros who have to deal with another disappointment.

In regards to the "I told you so crowd" I just don't get your perspective on life or your bias for failure but then again I am told people go to car races to see crashes (failures) not skilled driving (success).

Having said all that, BB's execution was severely flawed. More like a Spanky and Our Gang "lets put on a show" versus a well researched, planned and executed business.

Can't wait for the next mousetrap.

 

[jmurphy]

Yup for sure man, its all conjecture. HOWEVER, it makes way more sense as a scam than it does as a legit biz. Plenty of people that know pool and know biz were scratching their heads without being able to come close to seeing how it could pencil out. Not even close. Forget recouping start-up $$$, how about covering the 50K a month nut? I never read one explanation that even came close to making sense.

Now a scam to bilk investors? That I can see.

Like you said, all conjecture at this point.

Kevin

Try closer to $50K per week not month :thumbup:
The players payroll (if they get paid lol) was close to $36K per week alone and
then you have to count in, staff payroll (Ball Girls, IT/Video guys, Commentator, Referee, Still photo guy, etc......)
Now you have to get into Rent & Utilities

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

Summary: Bad Idea+ Bad Plan+ Inexperienced People+Low finances+Bad Mgmt+Scam Players[ pie in the sky money]=FAILURE SURPRISE?????? Now what? BB blame everyone else,Stall,stall,stall until players quit, then say no backpay because you quit! How many players are now stuck with leases on their LV apts?Scams never end pretty!

Well someone stood up and took a chance with Bonus Ball, it apparently failed. But a point should be awarded to those who tried, and failed. NO Point will be awarded to those who only sat on the sideline, and never even tried any ideas. JMHO.

What is that only saying winner never quit, and quitters never win. Or was it something like that.

 

[JCIN]

Shorts and bears never built a damn thing, it is the longs and the bulls that make things happen and I would imagine at their best their rate of success is below 25%

In today's world you are going to be right more often than not predicting failure of a start up business or a new marriage but that doesn't make you smart.

Give me a risk taking dreamer any day rather than the "I knew it would never work crowd" that is crowing right now.

I supported BB by buying the season and would do so again in a heartbeat. If it is over, I will feel bad for the people who invested, the employees who lost work and the pros who have to deal with another disappointment.

In regards to the "I told you so crowd" I just don't get your perspective on life or your bias for failure but then again I am told people go to car races to see crashes (failures) not skilled driving (success).

Having said all that, BB's execution was severely flawed. More like a Spanky and Our Gang "lets put on a show" versus a well researched, planned and executed business.

Can't wait for the next mousetrap.

My perspective on life is that it is a good idea to under promise and over deliver. If you are going to promise something you should have a realistic plan and resources to deliver on those promises. If you put something out in a public forum you better expect it to get positive and negative responses. You better expect it to be analyzed.

Maybe you consider that negative. I consider it common sense.

I feel bad the players were lied to. Thats what it comes down to. There is no sugar coating it. The ones who say "Well at least he tried" do nothing to move things forward. All it does is encourage the next guy to tell more lies and take a flyer if he can sell the dream well enough because when he fails and sticks the players yet again people will say "Well at least he tried."

Any fool can fire an air barrel.

I like to think I have been a part of building something. Lots of people told me I was nuts for trying to do anything in pool. Many still do. I survive because I don't promise shit I can't deliver on. When I screw up I do my best to make it right. I guarantee I could go out and get a pretty good chunk of money to do something. One time. Unless there is a realistic rock solid plan that makes sense for all involved I will never do that because it would be the end of everything I worked to build.

Dreamers are great. We all need them. But at the end of the day you have to build things in the real world with the resources at hand.

 

[Fatboy]

thats rite any person can fire a air barrel, and anyone who dont ask to see the post is a fool.....

 

[JCIN]

thats rite any person can fire a air barrel, and anyone who dont ask to see the post is a fool.....

Yup. It takes two to tango.

No doubt.

 

[joelpope]

My perspective on life is that it is a good idea to under promise and over deliver. If you are going to promise something you should have a realistic plan and resources to deliver on those promises. If you put something out in a public forum you better expect it to get positive and negative responses. You better expect it to be analyzed.

Maybe you consider that negative. I consider it common sense.

I feel bad the players were lied to. Thats what it comes down to. There is no sugar coating it. The ones who say "Well at least he tried" do nothing to move things forward. All it does is encourage the next guy to tell more lies and take a flyer if he can sell the dream well enough because when he fails and sticks the players yet again people will say "Well at least he tried."

Any fool can fire an air barrel.

I like to think I have been a part of building something. Lots of people told me I was nuts for trying to do anything in pool. Many still do. I survive because I don't promise shit I can't deliver on. When I screw up I do my best to make it right. I guarantee I could go out and get a pretty good chunk of money to do something. One time. Unless there is a realistic rock solid plan that makes sense for all involved I will never do that because it would be the end of everything I worked to build.

Dreamers are great. We all need them. But at the end of the day you have to build things in the real world with the resources at hand.

I think we are in agreement about initiative, risk taking and responsibility. I respect what you have done with TAR and show my support with my pocketbook, or PayPal as the case may be.

I'm not close enough to know if "he" (I'm guessing Chibak sp) is chasing a dream, trying to hold on too hard, or, running a scam.

I maintain that that world was built by dreamers, not by naysayers. Some dreamers hook up with someone with execution skills, others aren't so lucky.

 

[juegabillar]

I maintain that that world was built by dreamers, not by naysayers. Some dreamers hook up with someone with execution skills, others aren't so lucky.

For some odd reason, in the past 50 yrs or so, dreamers have not made it in pool. Everything thrown out there has failed. Many of us know that, and that is the reason why we notice immediately if the proposal is all bull-crap or feasible.

 

[joelpope]

For some odd reason, in the past 50 yrs or so, dreamers have not made it in pool. Everything thrown out there has failed. Many of us know that, and that is the reason why we notice immediately if the proposal is all bull-crap or feasible.

Wow, with those incredible analytic skills I guess you are one of the top hedge fund managers in all of Wall Street.

To "know the outcome immediately." That is impressive indeed.

 

[1 Lone Wolf]

Apa

For some odd reason, in the past 50 yrs or so, dreamers have not made it in pool. Everything thrown out there has failed. Many of us know that, and that is the reason why we notice immediately if the proposal is all bull-crap or feasible.

I think the APA started less than 50 years ago, with a dream. I wonder how many people thought it would fail ?

 

[golubushka]

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