Skid

[book collector]

I have missed shots just like everyone else who plays pool and I know that something unusual happened.
I like everyone else learned skid and said that everytime it happened.
I always noticed in my case that when it happened it was similar to the shot Lou described , balls close shallow angle, follow medium soft speed.
I was wondering if the balls are just at the right distance if the cueball might be off the table a hair and if it hits a chalk mark or rubber mark or whatever is not slippery , if it is possible for the cueball to "climb " the object ball a bit and that is what causes them to react in ways that physics say are impossible.
I might be completely nuts , {wouldn't be the first time} , just my observation.

 

[Bob Jewett]

A more smooth surface, without interference (e.g. moisture, chalk, dirt), will be more likely to skid. ...

I believe this is false.

As for clay balls, my impression of them is that the surface is harder than phenolic and less prone to pick up chalk, but I've only played a few hundred hours with them and it was a while ago.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I read a lot about how, in the old days, skids where much less likely to occur than you see today. ...

This wasn't strictly true depending on what qualifies as "old". In the 1980 World Championships (14.1) there were a lot of skids. Butera missed a near-hanger into the side pocket due to soft inside follow. Another player managed to transfer a diamond of follow onto the first ball in a close combination by using fairly soft draw. There were a lot of chalk spots on the cue balls.

I think it's really important how and how often you clean the cue ball if you want to reduce skids. I've seen some recently cleaned cue balls that seemed to be chalk magnets.

 

[Juice]

I have seen more balls skid this week then ever
Cyclop balls suck

When you speak people should listen son. OG does not cry for nothing I will tell you that. LOL

I noticed they sound weird. When the cueball and object ball were close, it was very noticeable that they sound different. Makes it sound like you hit it bad. I did catch a few skids too. The cueball felt a lot heavier than the balls and it seemed like that was the cause. When I played with the cyclops cueball on the bar tables, they played good. I don't think they mix well with the measle ball.

I heard you had quite a few skid on you with the Peach match. LOL

The weird colors are fine
They just skid so much

What do you think causes it?

I played my last match next to Scott frost
He was very load in his match saying these
Balls skid so much
Ask him now what he thinks of them
I lost my winner side match today because of a skid

Wow that's sick man come through the losers and dust them off tournament player.

 

[cleary]

I heard you had quite a few skid on you with the Peach match. LOL

My alarm clock miscued but more than likely, user error.

 

[Juice]

My alarm clock miscued but more than likely, user error.

I tried to set the alarm clock in the room at the Rio and you needed to have a engineering degree son. LOL I did not have a cell phone so had to learn how to use shit other than a cell phone but could not figure it out. LOL

 

[lfigueroa]

Skid happens? So is it because of chalk or not? Because I contend, based on YOUR post that you can not predict skid at all.

If, as you claim, skid is only because of chalk, then how can you predict that because of an angle that there is a likelihood that the moment of contact will be one with chalk between the balls?

You are contradicting yourself.

John, trying to have a logical discussion with you is like entering a fun house Hall of Mirrors. I ain't goin', so you'll need to find yourself another rube.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou,

Agreed about the need to adjust.

My point was that plastics, resins, are complex and different materials & even formulations of the same materials have different properties. It's not just size, weight, etc. One has to take in ALL parameters, If not, the conclusions can be faulty. These balls, for some reason, may actually react differently & that difference certainly can be significant at least in certain situations.

Adjustment to different balls that may react a bit differently will take time. For some, more time than others. Some will detect no difference. While others may find them very very different.

I hate the red circle ball. The logo ball is okay. I can tell almost immediately & I can't even see the logo without my reading glasses.

The Cyclop balls may be THE ball of choice in few months. I have always liked the Centenial balls when the cue ball matches in EVERY way.

I hope you see my points.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

Oh yes. I see what you're saying and agree, Rick. Me? I hate the measles ball. I played with it for a couple of weeks leading up to this tournament and couldn't wait to get back to the red circle. Everybody be different.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

Skid can happen even on perfectly clean balls. It is the product of the physics of the ball's interaction. The gear effect, for lack of a better term.

It occurs at just that right speed, and angle where the OB wants to start it's rotational movement a split second before it's forward movement while the CB already has forward movement.

The dirt on the balls just makes it a bit easier to happen.

hmmm, I don't know about perfectly clean balls.

In "The Science of Pocket Billiards" Koehler talks about stuff like chalk, and talcum, and even hand oil affecting CIT. But with perfectly clean balls I don't think you can get skid.

Lou Figueroa
just guessing

 

[CreeDo]

It's easy to set up intentional skid using chalk. Dr. Dave has high speed videos and you can set it up
yourself in the pool room in five minutes. You'll get a skid probably on your very first shot,
or within a couple of tries.

So, logically I don't know why anyone would DENY chalk is a cause of skid.
Are there other causes? Maybe, but so far nobody has stepped up and shown video proof.

Someone said clean balls skid more?! I think that's silly but it's the easiest thing in the world to test.
Clean a full rack of balls, shoot cut shots on video. Repeat for, say, 100 shots.
Can't get a skid? Your theory is probably wrong.

Someone else said static. OK, rub that ball against a wool sweater or plush carpet or whatever.
You can probably verify static is there by getting a balloon to cling to the ball.
Shoot a staticy ball 100 times on video. No skid? That theory's probably wrong too.

I haven't played with the cyclop balls but I'll say Chris is shooting well vs. Ko Pin Yi right now...
tied 3-3, and no skids have ruined the match, yet.

 

[lfigueroa]

A more smooth surface, without interference (e.g. moisture, chalk, dirt), will be more likely to skid. Case in point, clay balls (rough surface) never skidded.

I do not believe this to be so, but defer to the science guys.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I always noticed in my case that when it happened it was similar to the shot Lou described , balls close shallow angle, follow medium soft speed.

BC, I think it happens often enough, on the same shot, that you start to know when it can happen.

Lou Figueroa

 

[sfleinen]

"Skid" (AKA "cling" or "kick") is excessive throw caused by increased friction between the CB and object at the point of contact. Much more info on this topic, including causes and demonstrations, can be found on the "cling/skid/kick" resource page.

Enjoy,
Dave

Dave:

Are you sure about that? Because "kick" in the snooker circles is NOT skid. It's when the cue ball hops a bit due to inconsistencies in the cloth. It's most likely seen when applying follow (top) onto the cue ball, and instead of taking the english, the cue ball hops a bit, and if the hop is severe enough, it causes the object ball to hop, too.

As some consider skid to be a "mystery of the universe" in pool, so too is kick to snooker.

-Sean

 

[Banks]

Sounds like a boring episode of Mythbusters in the making.. but, maybe, just maybe, they could do something to make pool interesting.

They could always pep it up and blow up a table or something.

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Ut Oh!

just a minute ago, Bartram playing Ko on the tv table, Chris is up 5-3 and playing well.

he lines up for a s-I-m-p-l-e two and a half foot straight into the side shot and the ball skids.

Bartram immediately spins around to tell Ken Schuman, who is commentating the match, what happened.

I expect we may hear more from Chris on this later.

Hope it doesn't cost him the match.

Ko just won that game and broke and ran the next one.

It's now tied 5-5.

best,
brian kc

 

[Diamond69]

Ut Oh!

just a minute ago, Bartram playing Ko on the tv table, Chris is up 5-3 and playing well.

he lines up for a s-I-m-p-l-e two and a half foot straight into the side shot and the ball skids.

Bartram immediately spins around to tell Ken Schuman, who is commentating the match,.

I expect we may hear more on this later.

Hope it doesn't cost him the match.

Ko just won that game and he's breaking.

It's Chris 5-4.

best,
brian kc

Now I've never heard of a straight in skid shot! Can someone explain that saw the shot?

 

[Fatboy]

I have seen more balls skid this week then ever
Cyclop balls suck

welcome to Vegas,

I know you have played for years there. I can tell you this I have seen weeks where we get a skid or 2 or 3 EVERY rack of one hole, no matter what we do. It rained so It shouldnt be so bad. mite be the balls, might not i dont know. pool conditions in vegas are the damnedest thing I ever seen in my life playing pool-anywhere. I cant figure it out.

on a serious note cleaning the equipment helps 90% of the time, I'm talking about every 2 hours of play on a real bad day. and sometimes that dont work. Its just brutal. I plaqyed all over Arizona and it wasnt like Vegas or Victorville(hi desert). Its brutal.

One solution on real bad days is shoot hard, thats ok on the last ball, but for position there is no plan, in 1P the 8 & out dont happen like it should, you have to over shoot lots of shots, . I seen skids when you just roll the CB it hops up on the OB- usually holds its line in that case if its a full ball hit.

sucks no matter what


It is really aggravating , I was playing Cotton last week and he missed a ball by a mile but it skidded so bad he made it, I was sick, couldnt stand it. Dont see that one often.


hope you did well. i didnt look and see, i was there one day came back to LA, got a cold and didnt make it back

 

[Fatboy]

I think it’s only reasonable that different player are going to have difference experiences with any given set of balls.

Me? I saw fewer skids playing, ringside, and from the booth. I did have one skid happen to me playing a match and Larry Nevel had one happen to him during our match. But, as Bob Jewett has written, the skid phenomena is not so much about the balls, but chalk on the balls. (Kamui, anyone?) And, given the harder surface of the Cyclop balls, that is less likely to happen, IMO.

So Chris saw more skids and he hates Cyclops balls.

Daniel, of povpool, said the pro players like them because there’s less skid. Scott Frost, per Fast Lenny, said Cyclops balls where “the best he had played with... they do not skid like other balls.” Scott Lee said “the balls stay cleaner.” Stroud said he liked the very much.” Mark Griffin said Bustamonte played with them said they played "just fine."

Bottom line (somewhat obviously): YMMV.

Lou Figueroa

Lou I aint picking on you, i respect you 1000% but remember I said "wait and see what happens after 14 days" Clean new equipment in Vegas plays good 95% of the time and if you polish up the balls and take a vacuum and damp cloth to the cloth and clean it 100% then even on the worst days skids are reduced lots. but On dirty equipment in vegas bad things happen with any balls.

 

[Fatboy]

I dan't know, Apoc, I'm definitely an amateur. At the DCC a couple of years ago, playing with Aramiths, I had the CB crawl straight up the side of an OB -- twice in one match. If that ain't skid, I don't know what is.

Lou Figueroa

actually thats what happens more often in Vegas than anything. Happens less with Kamui chalk FWIW.

 

[lfigueroa]

Lou I aint picking on you, i respect you 1000% but remember I said "wait and see what happens after 14 days" Clean new equipment in Vegas plays good 95% of the time and if you polish up the balls and take a vacuum and damp cloth to the cloth and clean it 100% then even on the worst days skids are reduced lots. but On dirty equipment in vegas bad things happen with any balls.

Well hugs and kisses to you too, Eric, but I don't recall disagreeing with you on this.

The issue at discussion here is skid, which was not what we were talking about back then. Skid is going to happen regardless of the set of balls being used. And it is especially going to happen when you have a bunch of serious players chalking up their newly roughed up tips every shot at a tournament. It does not help that some are using uber-chalks that would leave chalk marks on a teflon pan.

So we be cool.

Lou Figueroa
always was
always will be