Small shaft diameter?

[CJ Wiley]

the wood has to be very stiff or the smaller size will be detrimental.

Interesting. What do you mean you need quicker, more accurate spin for a big table?

When I get out of position (or the opponent puts me there) I have to use "quick english" (Pinning Style) to alter the angle of the cue ball off the cushion. This comes up for safeties and also for position play. On bar tables this comes up much less often and on 10' tables it comes up very often.

A smaller shaft, from my experience, gets quicker, more accurate spin on the cue ball. I would suggest between a 11.75 and 12.25 to get best results. You could get smaller, however the wood has to be very stiff or the smaller size will be detrimental.

I have a really old Bludworth shaft that is 11mm, it's a weapon when I'm playing well, however, if my stroke isn't 100% I have trouble shooting off rails with that size.

 

[Ratta]

As long as the tip radius is constant then the contact patch size will be the same.

When looking at the chalk on the cue ball after the shot realize that the patch you see is larger than the actual contact area. The blowback of the chalk on the tip makes it appear larger than it really is.

Same area = same amount of energy.

tap tap tap
lg from overseas,

Ingo

 

[Ratta]

Small diameter tips produce less squirt (because they have less "end mass") and make it easier to see where you're hitting the CB. (there is the precision)

Small diameter tips don't:
- produce more spin
- "shoot straight no matter how hard you hit"
- make the shaft whippy (that's taper)
- "forgive less" for stroke errors

The quality of the stroke, and the ability to actually hit the precise part of the cueball that you planned to has more to do with the English you get, then by what equipment you use.

Players would do better to put more focus on the point on the cueball they need to hit for the shot, and develop an accurate repeatable stroke to get the tip to that spot.

You master that and you are on the way to be a champion.

IMHO

Another one!
tap tap tap

lg
Ingo

 

[whammo57]

The smaller diameter shafts do not produce more spin. That is an illusion. It is because the shooter ends up hitting further away from center. Just think of it this way. If you aim through the center of the shaft at a point on the CB with both a 13mm and 11.75 mm shaft, the contact point on the CB will be different for the two. So let's say you're aiming for extreme right english. You gage this by where the right edge of the tip looks to be on the edge of the CB. The actually contact point for an 11.75 mm shaft will be out further from center than it would be for the 13 mm shaft. Obviously, that would product more spin. The smaller diameter shaft/tip didn't produce the greater amount of spin, rather, hitting further from center produced the greater spin.

on the nose............ why do so many people believe it?????

Kim

 

[JohnPT]

Tried out the Predator Z2, McDermott I3 and the OB Pro during the BCA in Rio. I liked them all. Made draw easier because I can shoot lower. Not that I can't draw with my 12.75 mm (314-2) mind you but these thinner shafts were just effortless.

One thing to consider though these thinner shafts weigh less so a lighter butt may be necessary if you like a medium or forward balance.

I ended up getting the Z2 since I already have a Predator and really like their products.

 

[Tony_in_MD]

I will take a stab at it.


1. Marketing
2. A desire to obtain benefits without putting in the appropriate work.

Putting my flame retardant uniform on now.

on the nose............ why do so many people believe it?????

Kim

 

[CJ Wiley]

There's few examples to need "more spin," and if so it's usually to curve or masse'

It is possible that he means more accurate tip contact point as intended when using smaller tip, especially when putting too much english!
.

Yes, I'm only concerned with the accuracy/spin ration, not putting "more" spin on the cue ball, this would actually be detrimental. There's few examples to need "more spin," and if so it's to curve or masse' the ball, not for changing angles off the cushion.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Never mind.

 

[CJ Wiley]

suggestions from some players I highly regard. 'The Road is the Teacher'

I'll just throw this out for consideration.

Here is the hypothetical.

There are two tips of the same brand,

with the same durometer measurement

& of the same thickness

& with the same shape radius

& they are on two cue stick of identical specs.

In fact, the smaller 11 mm tip is on a 14 mm shaft so that the squirt/deflection of the shafts are exactly the same

The hits of the two will be of the exact same force of the cue stick, etc.

In other words, all else IS equal except for the diameter difference of an 11 mm tip vs a 14 mm tip.

So with all of everything being equal will the two(2) different diameter tips have the same amount of compression, given that the angle from the contact point with the cue ball to the center of the ferrule is different?

And given the above, will the 'grip', friction, between the tip & the cue ball be exactly the same?

I'll state my opinion & my opinion is no because the angle of the compression is different.

Is the difference very small? Yes.

Is the difference significant? I'd say that it certainly can be.

I'd also say that there could be a significant difference in moving the center line of a 14 mm tip 7 mm off of CB center as opposed to moving the center line of an 11 mm tip 7 mm off of CB center.

Just some thoughts.

The only draw back to using smaller tips is shooting off the rail. I used to get a shaft that was slightly too big, then sand it and play for 3 hours, back and forth, play and sand (with 600 and 1000 s.p.)......at some point it would just "click" and the spin/deflection ratio would be ideal for full table shots (this is the best test). imho

Trial and error is best for each individual, however, I recommend finding you the smallest one you can play with and use it on 9' tables, then go up a quarter to a half mm for 8' and even more for bar tables.

This is some "road player" info. so take it or leave it, there's no scientific studies to back this advise up, just suggestions from some players I highly regard. 'The Road is the Teacher'

 

[naji]

The only draw back to using smaller tips is shooting off the rail. I used to get a shaft that was slightly too big, then sand it and play for 3 hours, back and forth, play and sand (with 600 and 1000 s.p.)......at some point it would just "click" and the spin/deflection ratio would be ideal for full table shots (this is the best test). imho

Trial and error is best for each individual, however, I recommend finding you the smallest one you can play with and use it on 9' tables, then go up a quarter to a half mm for 8' and even more for bar tables.

This is some "road player" info. so take it or leave it, there's no scientific studies to back this advise up, just suggestions from some players I highly regard. 'The Road is the Teacher'

I agree , with snooker tables being 12' long you need the lowest squirt cue that can possibly exists, also need more english (especially low) so it lasts for long shots.

 

[ENGLISH!]

The only draw back to using smaller tips is shooting off the rail. I used to get a shaft that was slightly too big, then sand it and play for 3 hours, back and forth, play and sand (with 600 and 1000 s.p.)......at some point it would just "click" and the spin/deflection ratio would be ideal for full table shots (this is the best test). imho

Trial and error is best for each individual, however, I recommend finding you the smallest one you can play with and use it on 9' tables, then go up a quarter to a half mm for 8' and even more for bar tables.

This is some "road player" info. so take it or leave it, there's no scientific studies to back this advise up, just suggestions from some players I highly regard. 'The Road is the Teacher'

Yeah CJ,

That was sort of the point of my misguided, overstated attempt.

It's sort of like the brush manufacturer telling the great artist that there is not enough of difference in the size of the brushes to make a difference.

Best Regards & Wishes,
Rick

 

[dr9ball]

I agree , with snooker tables being 12' long you need the lowest squirt cue that can possibly exists, also need more english (especially low) so it lasts for long shots.

If that is the case why Do snooker cues have a brass ferrule instead of a much lighter material for less squirt?

 

[ENGLISH!]

If that is the case why Do snooker cues have a brass ferrule instead of a much lighter material for less squirt?

Rufus,

The brass ferrule on a snooker cue has a super thin wall. I don't know what the weight is compared to a pool cue ferrule, but it is of much less volume.

Picture turning the cue on a lathe & taking only 1/32 of an inch off & then slipping the thin brass walled 'ring' over the end.

I'm not sure if it is 1/32 but it is thin.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

 

[pwd72s]

I will take a stab at it.


1. Marketing
2. A desire to obtain benefits without putting in the appropriate work.

Putting my flame retardant uniform on now.

No flame from me. I've finally arrived at the conclusion that...
Table time gives one more improvement in game that any fiddling and fussing
about by changine equipment.

 

[dr9ball]

Rufus,

The brass ferrule on a snooker cue has a super thin wall. I don't know what the weight is compared to a pool cue ferrule, but it is of much less volume.

Picture turning the cue on a lathe & taking only 1/32 of an inch off & then slipping the thin brass walled 'ring' over the end.

I'm not sure if it is 1/32 but it is thin.

Regards & Best Wishes,
Rick

I had wondered how much they weigh, in this picture below it appears to have some mass to it.

 

[naji]

I had wondered how much they weigh, in this picture below it appears to have some mass to it.

Also i think snooker cue tips are in the 8-9 mm dia, which could compensate for the tiny weight of the ferrule squirt wise on long say 8-9' shots. The other factor that i think compensate for squirt is cloth type, on snooker table cloth has more friction so swerve at times even out with squirt-to be confirmed..

 

[CJ Wiley]

"The Game will teach you, just be willing to listen to experience" CJ Wiley

Yeah CJ,

That was sort of the point of my misguided, overstated attempt.

It's sort of like the brush manufacturer telling the great artist that there is not enough of difference in the size of the brushes to make a difference.

Best Regards & Wishes,
Rick

Of course tip size makes a difference, and must match the players style to be most effective. Players that don't spin the cue ball as much can use a bigger MM shaft, while those that spin a lot would be better off using a smaller MM shaft.

The spin/deflection ratio is the key, and this takes some personal experimentation to discover. No one can accurately recommend your "perfect" size, it's a matter of trial and error, then making the best selection depending on the game and table size.

"The Game will teach you, just be willing to listen to experience" CJ Wiley

 

[riedmich]

I also thought about that question: What are advantages amd disadvantages of bigger or smaller shaft/tip diameters

In german forum I discussed very detailled (http://www.billard-aktuell.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39470 ), but a main issue I want to give also an input here.

See the sketch then it is easy to understand: the smaller the shaft diameter at same tip shape, the more you will play on the edge of the tip. Playing on the edge of rhe tip is one of the important reasons why it is hard to control non center shots. The tip compresses much more when playing on the edge + you have more risk of miscueing.

On the other hand smaller diameters allow a better "resolution" while aiming. So it is to find a good compromise that is mainly depending on personal likes and dislikes. I personally feel good at 12,4 mm.

 

[Bambu]

I shoot with an old pro who swears by his giant, 15 mm custom shaft. Though he's a straight pool player, a true center baller.... he says he can get as much spin as I can with my skinny Z-2. We debate this all the time, but still cant prove very much. We both believe what CJ says though, fatter tips are better for center ball.
Perhaps its because the fatter tip has a better chance of hitting a portion of true center.

When I try his cue I can pocket well, but run into trouble as soon as I need spin to get back in line. The main thing I like about my Z-2 is, it can physically hit lower on the cue ball. So for draw shots alone, I prefer the thinner shaft. The low deflection aspect is just a side benefit. Once you can control the spin with any cue, the max "amount" of spin doesn't matter so much. You can always jack up if you feel you need more.

 

[Kim Bye]

I play with a 12.5mm tip, my new Mezz shaft has a 12.0mm tip.
There is a huge difference in the accuracy required compared to a regular 13mm tip.