Same principle as in other athletic endeavors like powerlifting where you do a slow controlled decent of the weight (benchpress and squat) to build up that potential energy at he bottom of the movement for an explosive release.
'Pendulum' Stroke 'Sweet Spot' ?
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Exactly! but of course on a much smaller scale except for a fast powerful break.
One great example of this in pool is Evgeny Stalev's break. He's not a biceps guys
by any means but he sure can make that rack explode.
Good shooting to you,
Kevin
The last time I looked into this, the biceps is not considered to be the muscle most responsible for closing the elbow and producing the forward part of the pool stroke.
Bob did you state that correctly or am I confused as to what I am envisioning as closing the elbow.
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According to articles on wikipedia that look pretty authoritative and convincing, the biceps is not the muscle most responsible for closing the elbow. There are multiple muscles in the upper arm, not just two.
There is the Brachialis muscle which lies underneath the bicep muscle. It aids in closing the elbow too.
If you flex your arm you see the biceps on the top, but you cant see the Brachialis below, guess that is why we tend to forget about it.
If you flex your arm you see the biceps on the top, but you cant see the Brachialis below, guess that is why we tend to forget about it.
Congratulations to both you and your sons Rick! Those are both great reasons to celebrate and just in time for two big family holidays.
Thanks Rufus.
I appreciate that.
May you & your family be Blessed as well.
Regards & Best Wishes, Sincerely,
Rick
PS The 'sincerely' is due to 'some' stating that they think I am being disingenuous by wishing well to everyone.
Thanks Kevin.
Copied and Pasted to Word for future reference.
Titled: The Mechanics of a Pool Stroke :wink:
John
"biceps" is the singular, I think, technically, although a lot of people use the word wrong.
It's like casting a fishing "rod and reel" or hammering a nail.
I can teach this in person, but I have to use three or four types of visual examples.
Try this, just for the "sake of science and experimentation".....examine the picture I posted of Hank Haney showing the motion of the golf swing, then try to duplicate it in your pool stroke.
Allow the cue go through the cue ball and extend it as far forward as you can without raising up. Feel the push of your tricep in this extension, then try to feel that motion in your regular stroke.....look at the diagram again if you have trouble.
It's a different motion that most of you will be making in your stoke now, and will open up a different sensation in your pool stroking.....make sure you feel the wrist uncock slightly as well, just like in the diagram. It's like casting a fishing "rod and reel" or hammering a nail (when you cast a rod and reel do you do it with bicep or tricep?
There are other muscles involved in this motion, I just suggest you learn to let the bigger, stronger tricep be the leader, rather than the bicep which isn't very good at creating speed.....those of you that's pitched in baseball should know what I mean.
I have taught many players how to do this with a sword I've had for almost 20 years.....it's the best teaching tool I've ever used, it's very heavy and redirects the muscle memory.....it's challenging to get these results with just your normally weighted cue.
im sorry but i dont understand why the tricep is so important??
its used to bring the cue backwards
I can teach this in person, but I have to use three or four types of visual examples.
Try this, just for the "sake of science and experimentation".....examine the picture I posted of Hank Haney showing the motion of the golf swing, then try to duplicate it in your pool stroke.
Allow the cue go through the cue ball and extend it as far forward as you can without raising up. Feel the push of your tricep in this extension, then try to feel that motion in your regular stroke.....look at the diagram again if you have trouble.
It's a different motion that most of you will be making in your stoke now, and will open up a different sensation in your pool stroking.....make sure you feel the wrist uncock slightly as well, just like in the diagram. It's like casting a fishing "rod and reel" or hammering a nail (when you cast a rod and reel do you do it with bicep or tricep?
There are other muscles involved in this motion, I just suggest you learn to let the bigger, stronger tricep be the leader, rather than the bicep which isn't very good at creating speed.....those of you that's pitched in baseball should know what I mean.
I have taught many players how to do this with a sword I've had for almost 20 years.....it's the best teaching tool I've ever used, it's very heavy and redirects the muscle memory.....it's challenging to get these results with just your normally weighted cue.
Thanks....from that article are two I did not know about.
Brachioradialis
The brachioradialis muscle attaches to the outside of the humerus bone on one end, just above your elbow joint, and to the styloid process of the radius bone on the other. It strongly contributes to elbow flexion when your forearm is in a neutral position between pronation and supination, according to Hall. The hammer curl, which involves flexing your elbows from your sides with your palms facing inward, is an effective exercise for the muscle.
Pronator Teres
Although it primarily facilitates forearm pronation, the pronator teres muscle assists the biceps, brachialis and brachioradialis with elbow flexion. The muscle attaches to the inside of your elbow joint and the inside of the ulna bone on top and to the middle and outside surfaces of the radius bone on the bottom.
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/5...ith-flexion-of-the-elbow-joint/#ixzz2cC37OhzM
Brachioradialis
The brachioradialis muscle attaches to the outside of the humerus bone on one end, just above your elbow joint, and to the styloid process of the radius bone on the other. It strongly contributes to elbow flexion when your forearm is in a neutral position between pronation and supination, according to Hall. The hammer curl, which involves flexing your elbows from your sides with your palms facing inward, is an effective exercise for the muscle.
Pronator Teres
Although it primarily facilitates forearm pronation, the pronator teres muscle assists the biceps, brachialis and brachioradialis with elbow flexion. The muscle attaches to the inside of your elbow joint and the inside of the ulna bone on top and to the middle and outside surfaces of the radius bone on the bottom.
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/5...ith-flexion-of-the-elbow-joint/#ixzz2cC37OhzM
For the sake of clarity, do you have a video example of this technique on the pool table. I have watched videos of your play, and have not seen anything like you describe. Is this something you just developed in the last couple of years? I was 10 feet away from you when you played Earl at the US open a few years ago on the TV table, and did not see anything like you are describing here.
Another question, as the triceps is opening up the elbow, isn't that primarily happening at the end of this motion, after the cueball has been struck? If that is the case, what good is it doing?
Another question, as the triceps is opening up the elbow, isn't that primarily happening at the end of this motion, after the cueball has been struck? If that is the case, what good is it doing?
it just looks like one continuous motion.
I doubt if this stands out visually unless you were looking specifically for this movement. Just like in the golf swing, you won't see the pros making any of the individual movements in the swing, it just looks like one continuous motion.
They are actually cocking their wrists, raising their arms, turning their shoulders and creating a weight shift with their hips (and legs/feet)....when put together it's an optical illusion.
The pool stroke is the same concept, just in a miniature version. It appears that the arm is simply "curling" in the pool stroke, but much more actually going on depending on the players style, however, the champion players know how to harness the most energy to direct through the cue. I'm limited in explaining this phenomenon, maybe, at some point I'll devote a 90 minute video to how the stroke really works, but that will be awhile now that I'm committed to this Earl Strickland Documentary and TV Show.
I doubt if this stands out visually unless you were looking specifically for this movement. Just like in the golf swing, you won't see the pros making any of the individual movements in the swing, it just looks like one continuous motion.
They are actually cocking their wrists, raising their arms, turning their shoulders and creating a weight shift with their hips (and legs/feet)....when put together it's an optical illusion.
The pool stroke is the same concept, just in a miniature version. It appears that the arm is simply "curling" in the pool stroke, but much more actually going on depending on the players style, however, the champion players know how to harness the most energy to direct through the cue. I'm limited in explaining this phenomenon, maybe, at some point I'll devote a 90 minute video to how the stroke really works, but that will be awhile now that I'm committed to this Earl Strickland Documentary and TV Show.
You do this by pushing with your tricep, not using your bicep.
Try curling your arm completely, then making a stroke.....learning this movement by reading may not be possible.
The other key factor is setting your body correctly so you get the sensation of "shooting out of your chest".....to get this feeling hold the cue and put the butt up against your chest with the cue pointing away from you....then push it out towards a target in front of your body. You do this by pushing with your tricep, not using your bicep.
This motion happens, just not as exaggerated in the regular pool stroke. And if you get the sensation that you "pull" the cue through the cue ball this is NOT for you. This is just for those that want to feel that they are pushing the cue out from their body, not pulling if from the side of their body.
There's definitely two different ways to play, I prefer this on because I like the feeling of "shooting out of my chest".....not from my side.
cj
if the forearm angle to the upper arm is closing from back swing to contact and past contact
(at least soon after contact)
how can the triceps be pushing the sword(cuestick) thru the cue ball??
sorry that i dont understand
Try curling your arm completely, then making a stroke.....learning this movement by reading may not be possible.
The other key factor is setting your body correctly so you get the sensation of "shooting out of your chest".....to get this feeling hold the cue and put the butt up against your chest with the cue pointing away from you....then push it out towards a target in front of your body. You do this by pushing with your tricep, not using your bicep.
This motion happens, just not as exaggerated in the regular pool stroke. And if you get the sensation that you "pull" the cue through the cue ball this is NOT for you. This is just for those that want to feel that they are pushing the cue out from their body, not pulling if from the side of their body.
There's definitely two different ways to play, I prefer this on because I like the feeling of "shooting out of my chest".....not from my side.
Thanks CJ.
Good to know there are options. I like pushing the cue thru the cue ball. Never gave any thought that this action was a function of the triceps (was trying to push the cue thru the QB using the biceps). The triceps push the biceps pull.
Been practicing for the last 3 or 4 hours focusing on the triceps to push the cue thru the QB. Interesting.
John
I just thought Mike's words are worth repeating. Some have difficulty picturing a cue stroke other than the type that they are using (or teaching).
From what I've seen of CJ playing I don't think he is starting out set up in the prescribed set up position of a pendulum stroke.
I think Larry & Tony's questions are based in the context of a pendulum set up that would more than likely wind up 'pulling' the cue into the ball.
It's almost like asking CJ, 'when did you stop beating your wife?'
How can he answer that type of question without coming off in a poor light.
As both Mike & I have previously stated, our stroke & even 'grip', connection to the cue have evolved due to our use of TOI. My usually long & fluid stroke with a loose connection to the cue has become more compact with a firmer grip on the cue. That type of grip & stroke just seems more conducive to the type of hit one is trying to put on the ball for TOI.
Like CJ says 'The Game is the Teacher'.
There is more than one type of shot that needs to be played in the game & they are executed best with the type of connection to the cue & stroke that gets the best results for what is required or desired.
If one's focus is on the destination the natural dynamics will take you there if one does not put up road blocks & take too many bull headed detours. In other words, if we can just keep our brains from clogging up the works, our minds & bodies can usually get it done.
To paraphrase what Mike said, there is not only one correct stroke or type of stroke just as there is not one type or style of play & just as there is not one way to 'aim'. The key is to find a combination of those components that fit & work well together that each individual can execute for Their BEST outcome.
It is not one size fits all & just because a medium might fit 'most' people does not mean that everyone should wear a medium because the medium might not make you look YOUR BEST.
Best Wishes to ALL & May You Shoot Well with Whatever Method You Are Using,
Rick
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